Oudeis

Spoilers for the ending of the book, you've been warned. In Lightsong's first chapter, he remembers his niece, the one he died to save. I don't know about you, but if I have my glasses off and look at a painting, then go to another room and put my glasses on, I do not suddenly remember the painting with clarity. It's odd that Lightsong the Returned, with his Fifth Heightening, remembers something from when he was a mere mortal with (presumably) a single Breath, yet remembers it as though he were looking at her with his Returned sight. I find it fascinating.

If Glen burns Gold at the same time that Francis burns Malatium, would the malatium-shadow that Francis sees appear in the same spot as the Gold-shadow that Glen sees? We know that you have to be at the (what, 9th?) Heightening in order to Awaken stone/metal. Do you have to be there in order to store Breath in metal or stone, the way Vivenna stores hers in that scrap of cloth? What about things like glass or water? What about things inside your own body? Could you swallow a tiny figurine of a human, then Awaken it? Could you swallow a scrap of cloth, and use its color to awaken?

Ooooo... I missed that. I assume this has been confirmed, not just a coincidence of names?

Darman, the cobb-... grr, someone stole cobbler already. Mortician.

I don't think they're clear. By "wither away completely" do you mean "crumble down to literal dust," or "not even dust, just stops being physical matter"? Since all I can do is guess, I'll say that the corpse just looks really old real fast, but then slows down while it's still a full corpse, and decomposes naturally from there, based on the fact that the daughter's hand withers but not away to nothing; granted, it's possible that the process is different when you survive.

All of those points are valid, and merely serve to illustrate the idea that a bunch of people are remembered historically, not that Ham wasn't remembered. If he was important enough for people to name a bay after him, there will be some record written somewhere about him. Maybe he'll be less George Washington and more Martin Van Buren, but there are still plenty of people who know who Martin Van Buren was. If nothing else, he'd go down in history as the man who trained the Warrior Ascendant to be a, well, warrior.

I also don't think the plains were literally one solid plain that was later shattered, it's just a way to describe how it looks. Apart from the name, there's no evidence to support the idea that the land could crack in such a way. On Earth, when things hit the ground they make craters, they don't make otherwise-stable plateaus.

The Elendel map was drawn by Isaac Stewart. Zach is a common nickname of Isaac. Zach/Nazh? I mean it's a stretch but... maybe? He's written friends into bit-parts in his stories before; maybe Isaac asked to be some random world-hopper who doesn't actually show up in books, he just draws maps.

I think you and I are largely in agreement here. I'm only like 90% sure it's Spook, but we certainly seem to agree it's one of them. Actually re-reading the quote you posted to, I'm maybe now up to 95% with you. The "knows things he shouldn't know" is just too leadin... Anyway, as for "does history remember Ham," please check the map. The Irongate river flows into Hammondar Bay. I am going to say yes, Ham did enough to be remembered. Maybe there's a plaque.

The bag is a very special case, because it was very carefully lined with tar so that no air got out. I guess it's like, the scent of blood? So inside a house would work, as long as it was literally air-tight. Which would be difficult with the technology available in the Forests of Hell, and would result in suffocation. No idea about the range. It seems like you can't walk 20 feet without finding a shade, so I wouldn't worry so terribly about not finding one in range. If they could each "boost the signal" than drawing blood would literally result in every shade across the forest eventually hearing about it and coming, so it has to be range from the act itself. Drifting along and bumping into silver seems to hurt and repel, but not kill or enrage, a shade. That's actually odd, now that I think about it. Shades cannot be enraged by the only thing that can kill them. Is that a terrible survival trait, or a good one? Does it teach them only to harass people who can't necessarily fight back, but to leave people alone who might be able to kill them? Being stabbed by silver wounds and presumably kills a shade. The silver is tarnished in the act. I actually have a theory as to why they hate fire, or at least its generation. What if melting the silver down and re-casting it purifies it somehow? Otherwise, you're right, whatever silver mine they currently have access to will dry up at some point and then they'll be in trouble. It might also explain why they hate fire; silver itself is temporary, since at least it gets hurt when it hurts shades. But what if fire were the key to endless silver? I could theoretically see silver merchants knowing this, but keeping the knowledge a trade secret to artificially inflate the price. Tech is low enough on this planet that I buy that only a few people would know the truth. Eventually, of course, someone with a forge out of their control will figure it out, but for now it's a decent scam, and they can feign ignorance after the fact.

Hey Aether, this forum isn't spoiler-y for stuff that hasn't been released in a book yet. Can you throw your post behind a Spoiler tag? I know, I'm the first one who brought it up, I shouldn't have and I'm sorry. I guess I should have told people to check out the spoiler forums and I'd post my thoughts there.

Spoilers for all those things behind the cut.

But at the end of the day, you're still just saying that Odium's plan is based on the idea that he was simply made with the ability to kill Shards, that no other Shard has. He didn't think of anything clever or go through anything difficult. Whether it's a difference in his power or his Intent, he's the only Shard that came with a "kill other Shards" button. Like I said, I can't prove you wrong. I just hope Mr. Sanderson has a more creative plan than that in mind. I agree that the Vin/Ruin is a terrible example of how to shatter a shard, since it didn't result in the shattering of a shard. See, we can agree on things.

Your theories all seem to boil down to one assumption that I don't understand or accept: Odium destroys the power of other Shards, but other Shards don't destroy the power of Odium. In the case of this "poisoning" you're saying that there's something special about Odium's power. If you put it into Devotion, the scrap will be enough to harm Devotion, but Devotion will be able to do absolutely nothing to harm that scrap. You're saying that the powers are antithetical enough that Odium would harm Devotion, but they aren't so antithetical that Devotion would harm Odium. Well, which is it? You might end up being right, I can't prove you wrong. I'm just saying, if we learn that Odium's master plan to rule the world is "I was made with the power to simply win," it will be very boring and trite, so I hope it doesn't happen. I want it to be more interesting and unique than that.

Anyone who has read the Steelhunt stuff, or the WoR readings, might recognize more support for this theory...

Among other things, isn't that quote what he claims people in-world term Splinters? I don't think it's said anywhere that it's what Splinters objectively are.

But none of that sounds like shattering. If the powers are anti-thetical enough that it'd break Devotion, then wouldn't that one scrap be destroyed in the far-greater power that is Devotion? Also, since Odium wants to be the most powerful being in the Cosmere, why would he start giving up bits of his own power? And keep in mind, Devotion wasn't some static thing that sat there waiting to be killed. By your idea, that'd be like if you said, "what if I came over and gnawed on your arm a little every day? Sure, no single bite would be enough to kill you, but after a few weeks I'd've opened enough wounds to bleed you out." Why wouldn't Devotion do something about that? How did anyone force Odium into a pact, if all he had to do was sit around shooting you with Odium-pellets until you die?

Do we? We've got a couple of kids young enough that on Earth they would still believe in Frosty the Snowman saying that it's so, and an adult giving one off-hand, "Oh that almost never happens" rejoinder. I wouldn't call that "every reason", not by a long shot.

?? Isn't that what Vin does? And it ensured mutual destruction. What's special about Odium that he'd survive? And how did he splinter Dominion or Honor, neither of which are as antithetical? Also, Odium is rather 'devoted' to his own cause. Is Devotion truly that directly antithetical to his Intent?

Spoilers for Steelhunt/WOR Readings material:

Well done; my mistake. I now have no idea how Kwaan could have known that, unless the prophecies left by Terr really were that specific. There's a WoB somewhere... someone asked if Ruin could power allomancy the way preservation did, and his answer was something like, "Either of the Shards could power all three arts, but Ruin is better at Hemalurgy and Preservation is better at Allomancy." He may even have implied that any shard could directly power any art native to any shardworld. That'd be a thing... Imagine if Wayne learned a few Aons, and just once Harmony decided to directly power one for him....

I'm not sure anyone knows... my theory, frankly, is that "lines and curves" are basically what drawing is. Since we know hemalurgy exists, to us they look like spikes. If hemalurgy wasn't a thing, people would be saying they look phallic, because throughout history any line or stick has been accused of being "obviously phallic". It's what I refer to as a phallusy.

I'm not sure I agree. I think he knew that the prophecies used to say that he must use the power, but now say he must release the power. I don't think it says anywhere that he knew specifically what would happen if the power were released, just that it would be bad.

1. Probably not. Investiture is practiced by humans, and humans have bodies. That's probably the only connection. Also, what's the "body focus" of allomancy? 2. This probably belongs in the Cosmere forum... EDIT: To expand upon my previous comments... Apart from being "parts of the body," the bindpoints are tangentially related to the foci, at best. The eyes are one example of a bindpoint, but the breath? Fat? Hair? This was a good thought, but I'd suspect there's not really any "there" there.

The point Aether made, plus, maybe they do... like Sylphrena says, if her bond with Kaladin were ever severed, she'd go back to being mindless. Maybe Harmony is less a matter of, Sazed hopped behind the wheel of a ferrari and turned on the ignition, and more a matter of, two beings merged into one. Maybe the intelligence Harmony expresses isn't Sazed's personal one, so much as a mix of his mind with the power/Intent of the Shards. We've all assumed it's just the power of the Shard flowing into a human, but couldn't it be the mind of the human flowing into the power of the Shard? If the human body/mind dies, however, the link is severed, and the Shard goes back to being a mindless force, just like Syl would go back to being a brainless spren. A thought occurs to me... undirected Ruin went around destroying. Undirected Preservation was still able to protect. Hypothetically, what would happen to Endowment if its holder died? Would it just go around giving things?