elihaun

So, the game of towers seems to have changed a bit between what we see in Oathbringer and Wind and Truth.  in Oathbringer it seems very abstract, but gets a lot more detail in WaT.  So, what are your theories about what the game is like/any real world games it can be compared to?

My guess is it would be a game like 'the duke' (link) because it mentions having your back against a mountain and the duke has a mountain tile, and the movement seems kind of similar, or 'For the Crown' (link) because it has cards like mentioned in Oathbringer, but still have unit tiles that can adapt to terrain like in WaT.  Or maybe it is more of a rank and flank wargame like old-school Warhammer, but poor people use cards instead of miniatures because its cheaper.  I know Onepagerules used to have a 'demo' game for some of their systems that can be printed on paper, including the miniatures AND terrain (link)(here is a link to a TTS version of the demo game I converted a few years ago). 

So, what kind of game do you think it is really like?  has Brandon stated anything about his inspirations?  the fact that it has named moves/techniques makes it sound more like chess than Warhammer, but the bit of gameplay we see looks more like a mix. do you want an 'official' version, and if so, do you think the game in book was made with that in mind?

On 3/14/2025 at 4:27 PM, Entr0pic said:

why does Elend look like the scout from TF2? Like do i only see this?

Pretty sure this was made in SFM?  the inquisitor is the sniper as well

I like it @Anyar! We need more animations and fan art for our favorite books

Agreed.  I was mostly engaged with the Adolin arc, but got mentally booted whenever Kaladin started trying to be a therapist.  

I have said it before, but I think Sanderson needs to slow down.  WoK took what, 3 versions before we got to the masterpiece that it is?  (WoK is a conglomeration of Dragonsteel prime, WoK prime, and it is to be assumed that there were revisions/rewrites).  by having a 6 month -1 year timeline on most books now a days, we lose ANY chance of there being rewrites or books just being completely scrapped/shelved.  When you are contractually obligated to get a book out... you got to get a book out.  by making his own publishing house/warehouse/ shipping center, Sanderson has kind of forced himself into keeping up the unrealistic standards.  If he does not write a book every 6 months, he will have to lay people off since there will be no books to ship, so he is going to feel forced to push a book out, even if it isn't ready.  

1 hour ago, Knuti said:

Well, I think I understand You better now. But is what You want really realistic? Is that what people do and are able to do after such experiences? Is it not far more realistic, that he works through his experiences with more distance in their SR-bubble? If I keep misunderstanding You, what is it specifically, that he should address?

Ok, we do not see him addressing it, but at the moment he wants to repress his ordeal. And repressing has its place in mental health too, at least if You are not called Shallan.

No, I don't think realistic is what I want, but I do want it to be addressed.  and I do know that he is repressing it.  but the character does not FEEL like the one I know.  In mistborn , Vin grew and improved through the series, at no real point do I feel like vin ceased to be and new-vin appeared.  She still had her flaws.  Same for Kelsier, Breeze, Sazed, and spook (but spook did feel a little TOO different...). Same for Perrin, Rand-al-thor, Alcatraz, and even spensa.  Sanderson CAN have a character change and improve throughout a series. He has done it again and again (which is why I am on a fan site! I love the cosmere). I just feel that we did not SEE kaladin improve like we saw all of the others improve. we were told he improved

I will say this: I WANT him to be able to address it while in the SR-bubble, but to do so he needs it to be there for him to address it.  Instead of him becoming a herald to give people time and pause the war (something that I think the kaladin we know and love would do), he does it to help the heralds get better with their mental health (which felt WAY too rushed).  the end would have been the same, but it would have been more in line with what the Kallidin we know and love would have done.  the BONES of what was done was great! I just wish the meat was a bit more inline with the kaladin we love

16 hours ago, Knuti said:

Sorry, but You are reading Kaladin wrong. His depression is not cured, not even affected. But after Tien's death he additionaly developed a neurotic compulsion to protect everyone possible regardless of anything else. The vision prior to his fourth oath meant, that he let go of Tien thus overcoming his neurosis (if I named this thing correct, I am no therapist either) and swear the fourth oath. So he is now able to enjoy life (tentatively) as seen in a certain beautiful scene.

I know he is not cured, but we don't really see him addressing it.  What I was saying is that the tone/internal dialogue we get from kallidin does not match up.  What I am talking about is the fact that you don't just wake up one day (quite literally the next day after a suicide attempt) 'able to enjoy life'.  I get what you are saying, but because we as an audience don't get to see kallidin addressing his issues in a realistic way, it does not fully feel like kaladin

On 1/8/2025 at 1:50 PM, VirtuousTraveller said:

My preference would be for a storyline involving a wounded warrior turned healer learning to help others to be written that way, not as a gimmicky "the Herald of Second Chances you've invented therapy the world's first therapist" experience.  I don't disagree with most of the statements Kaladin says (and the idea of reframing and becoming aware of one's thoughts are concepts I frequently use when working with people) - in the book, they just read as a gimmick, written so the reader understands "HEY LOOK Kaladin is doing counseling DID YOU SEE IT" rather than something legitimate.

For comparison, Kaladin's journey at the start of Rhythm of War learning to help people locked away in the sanitarium came across FAR more genuine and in line with Kaladin's previous story and characterization and the universe the story takes place in.  I say that to say, I don't think it's impossible to include these kind of stories in fantasy worlds - it just can't break the immersion of the story.

To me, Kaladin's efforts with Szeth, Nale, and Ishar broke the immersion.  That doesn't discount the potential effectiveness of the strategies/vocabulary touched on in Kaladin's dialogue.  Some of these moments were less poorly written than others, but in general I felt the tone of the book was consistently immersion-breaking for me.

I think a LARGE part of it is not (just) that kaladin is now a therapist.  It is that it is written as if kaladin has fixed himself.  In the last few chapters of RoW, (less than 24 hours before the start of this book) kaladin tried to kill himself.  He turned to rage and practically assassinated the pursuer.  He was death incarnate. And he flung himself off a building.

And then... He is magically better?  We never really got to see kaladin address all of that. We never got to see him working through what he tried to do, or see him address the rage and love of war/love of the martial power that he has for all of the books.  Im not a therapist myself, but I know that if someone tries to kill themself, you don't just ignore it.  you keep them under observations for a few days.  you have to help them, because even though they ended up not succeeding in ending it all, they will start to spiral when they think about the fact that they TRIED.  The book just never addressed it.

So in seeing Kaladin instantly start helping others -WE- are robbed of seeing the character we have come to know and love being helped.  That really makes his entire storyline feel hollow, because the kaladin we see is barely the kaladin we know

On 1/9/2025 at 3:15 PM, christianrapper said:

 

That Rlain/Renarin relationship is disgusting to me. Let’s not get into the same sex thing. I can’t imagine kissing a sapient shelled creature. Just imagine if apes were sapient and we have always known that. Now imagine yourself kissing a sapient ape. You can’t say that doesn’t make your skin crawl. That “love is love” phrase isn’t applicable to dating outside of your species. There are other practical problems with that also. There are things like introducing new diseases to the human population and other things like can you two even reproduce. 

So, the parshmen (not singers, but pre-everstorm parsh), had basic low-level intelligence.  So, if you go the OTHER way from 'shelled', it would be like us having a relationship with a dolphin.  They are supposed to be pretty intelligent for an animal, and the parshmen were considered just a step above animals.  you don't just ignore your whole life of lived experience just because last year you learned dolphins have scientist and were using us for free fish.

I don't think much is spoiled at all.  There might be hints, but most will be missed unless you already know their source.  

But DEFINATLY read warbreaker. There wont be spoilers for SA in WB, but there IS spoilers for WB in SA

On 1/27/2025 at 9:04 AM, Quantus said:

 Who knows, maybe a spiked rock covered in White Sand microbes could work, or maybe some prepared AonDor object could do it too (Im drawing a blank on any other options offhand, but we know Gems and Metals are special in general).  

Not sure if Brandon has been asked this, but what would happen if you made glass from white sand?  Would it be regular glass, or would it be invested? That might have interesting implications, because the steel inquisitors used glass daggers and were better than most at seeking

Also, how about an AonDor drawn onto a regular metal spike? or the things that turn people into cinders in sunlit man? or any awakened object (like... not nightblood, but something with just a little breath?) 

So, we know that the shards used the dawnshards to break Adonalsium, but what was Adonalsium like?  Was it a good god, a malevolent god, or just... there?  What got me thinking of this is now that we have seen 2 of the shards merge, and they are having huge internal struggles to DO anything that goes against their merged intent.  Well, it seems that all of the shards put together would cause Adonalsium to just... do nothing.  It could not create with cultivation because of ruin, it could not act due to counterbalanced intents.  So, is that why it was shattered? because it was capable of doing NOTHING other than simply existing?

Another thing to note is when considering the number of possible heralds, Tanavast gave a few different numbers.  He DID say that one was possible but would be too much of a burden (I don't have the book next to me to look up the quote), so It might not be '10 heralds' anymore. It might now be thought of as "nine and one".  I know this seems like semantics, but it is something to consider.  and in a way, it WAS one for a LOOoooooong time. So there is precedent.  

6 minutes ago, Argenti said:

Why would it not be Autonomy? 

Bands of mourning is what, 3-5 years after shadows of self?  It just seems that Harmony would be more worried about Retribution than Autonomy, or Autonomy would be more hesitant to attack 

I have said it before, but I think this book (and rhythm of war to be honest) should have been written and then sat on for a few years.  The issue is that now Brandon Sanderson does not have time to REALLY revise the series.  the bones of the books are still great, but I feel that we have put such a 'schedule' on the series that kaladin helping others in the towers HAS to evolve into him becoming a therapist.  instead of taking a year to think about it and rewrite it in a way that is not 'on the brow', Sanderson just had to write it like this.  

the same OUTCOME could have happened if kaladin had gone with seeth not to be his therapist, but to make sure the mission got finished.  It would have done the same thing. What if Kaladin didn't TELL seeth to 'follow his heart' and question orders, but instead is showed Kaladin following his heart and questioning orders with seeth watching?  same outcome could have been achieved, but it would have been more organic and less 'preachy'.  An adage in videogames and movies that works well in book is 'show, don't tell".  I just feel that this book did a lot more talking about personal growth that it actually showed personal growth, unlike the first 2 books in the series.

I think the Devar brothers have more to them.  Balat would be perfect at interrogation, Wikim at planning, and Jushu at fitting into a crowd.  I think the ghostbloods didn't 'rescue' the Devar brothers, I think they recruited them.  

On 1/1/2025 at 2:38 AM, Lord Ruler Sylphrena said:

I used to think there was a cap of 10 heralds (One for each order) but it seems it can go higher if the number is cosmere significant. Do you think Retribution could make new heralds for a new oathpact to serve as his generals? I know the original could be expanded but that doesn't seem likely. With Retribution Spren creating new Nahel bonds and possibly a new version of void/surgebinding a new oathpact that could represent new and old orders would be interesting. I think Vyre, El, and the Blackthorn are solid candidates for elevation. With Retribution having more power to work with then most shards I don't see why he wouldn't make more champions with it and new Heralds seem more interesting then new unmade in my opinion. Imagine if Retribution's number is something high like 25 and he gets really crazy with it. Also what do you think a new Oathpact could be used for? Invention and Reason seem like dangerous shards in the long run and something that could keep them out of the game could be crucial.

The thing about the 10 heralds, one for each order, is that maybe there is a change happening there.  Since Retribution is no longer bound to the deal, the humans are no longer restricted to the oaths as well.  we could have unbound surge binding in the next arc.  Either that, or there might be 19 orders of Knights (if the 10 orders of KR and 9 orders of fused are now both under retribution)

13 hours ago, KalKel said:

  It is implied he is in Scadrial with the broadsheets and since we know Ghostbloods are the next book.

So, I know this is off topic, but does this imply that WaT is set just before Shadows of Self?  isn't wit a landrian carriage driver in one of those? That would mean that the red mist that Harmony showed Wax is probably Retribution, not 'trell' (autonomy), or maybe Autonomy is working WITH retribution.  Also, we know that Iyatil's brother is still in elendell, so he probably didn't start a civil war with the ghost bloods

18 hours ago, Raven Wilder said:

I mean, there's Kaladin in Words of Radiance. 

 

I... don't feel like that is comparable.  He was going through a LOT of stuff at the time.  it was not a spur of the moment thing like the three instances in WaT seem to be.  Also abandoning oaths and revoking an oath feels different (might just be me).  As for the Recreance, they had a slow build up to their abandoning their oaths.  It was not a quick snap decision like the three in WaT

16 hours ago, Green Hoodie Mistborn said:

The difference of the oaths broken in WaT and (maybe?) others historically, are that these oaths were broken for the purpose of what is "right" rather than blind Honor. Dalinar through his breaking of oaths is trying to teach Honor that it's about more than just blind Oaths. 

Like above, I feel the REAL defference is not right or wrong, it is the build up.  All of the three main revoking of oaths in WaT feel like snap decisions, not something that was built up to like Kaladin, Shallan, or the KR

On 1/1/2025 at 4:05 AM, Oltux72 said:

What would you do with it? Ferry troops? The places they need to move troops to are colocated with oathgates

I am more worried about where it landed.  if there WERE people on board, it would be equivalent of the Hindenburg, right? What would happen to fabrials after the ending of the book.  We know spanreads still work, but there is not way to make MORE of them since there is no stormlight.  Maybe Navanis new way of getting the spren to help might work, but I dont remember much about it.

Otherwise, the Tower is the ONLY way to make new spanreads.  one, because spren can still be found there, and secondly because without stormlight, towerlight is the only way catch the spren.  that would make the tower VERY important for communications (especially since Tashic wouldnt have any way to make more spanreeds without the tower

On 12/13/2024 at 6:10 PM, Aela Nox said:

I wonder how much of that is down to the technological advances in Nomad’s time? I haven’t finished reading yet but it seems the cosmere is far more advanced from some of the things he says. Th

Also, where is the fourth Bridge during the last 10 days?  I can not remember it anywhere in WaT.  

JUST finished the book (like, less than five minuets ago. I'm a slow reader).  The things that I remember most of the book are the following (ignore typos. I'm too lazy to look up name spellings):

1) While I get the Renarin/Relain romance, I feel like it is a bit 'rushed'.  I felt like Renarin was (obviously) autistic in past books, but I did not get the feeling like this pairing was going to happen. The whole romance felt a bit rushed

2) a LOT of the predictions I saw before the book came out (based on old books/the sample chapters) were 100% correct.  Adolin getting the deadeyes to help, Gav being odiums champion, and Honor/Odium fusing.  so, while the whole Kaladin ending was (to me) unexpected, a LOT of the major ending plot points were a bit telegraphed.  

3) I am ready to see where books 6-10 go, but at the same time I hope Sanderson has time to work on other cosmere/non-cosmere books.  like, some of them have been on hold for a WHILE. 

the rithmitist.  I just want a sequal to the rithmitist.

4) Some of the plot points were too rushed.  I feel the Nale redemption was too fast, as was the concept of renouncing oaths.  Think of it. I cant remember ANY other example of oaths broken (other thank shallan) from a main character until the last 3/4th of this book. a major thing THIS important should have happened way earlier to have the same level of emotional gut punch and foreshadowing.  Like, Moash should have been of the 1st/second ideal when he revoked his oaths and killed elokhar.  Maybe had someone renounce there oaths in Rhythm of war?  I just feel like it was a 'easy out' at the end of the (first arc of) the series.  it should have been shown much more than a way distant, historical idea.  It should have been shown as a horrible, last ditch think before three people (Dalinar, Sigzil, Seeth) did it so close together.

5) lastly, I hope Sanderson has time to SLOW DOWN now that this book is finished.  I think something that we take for granted was the ability for Sanderson to sit back and think.  This entire series would be nothing if Sanderson did not have time to work on ideas and throw out the first book in the series and rewrite it.  We have come to expect him to put out books all the time now, but some of his best works are books that he finished, and then COMPLETLY reworked.  I fear that, in being forced to adhere to such a tight schedule we have made it so he is unable to reach his full writing potential.  or maybe I'm just over thinking it

Overall I loved the book, and I plan to reread it again soon!  (but as audiobook for the second read)

On 12/8/2024 at 8:21 PM, Mason Wheeler said:

Cultivation sucks.  It doesn't get discussed much in here, but it seems pretty clear that at virtually every turn, she screwed up and made things worse.  And yeah, there's a whole lot of blame to go around for how things turned out in the end, but the lion's (dragon's?) share definitely belongs to her.

Yeah, she positioned the WORST possible person to be the new odium into place.  like, she was as dragons in the cosmere are shown to be: too smart and haughty for her own good.

On 12/9/2024 at 2:48 PM, crumblyburgers said:

UNTIL you break it down and see how his instruction of Towers really shapes the entire book.

I am interested to see if there will be a 'towers' game come out.  Honestly it reminded me of some real-life wargames that use cards/tiles instead of models, something like Battles of Kursk or Combat Commander: Europe

I think this is the most LOGICAL course of action, but I don't think it would work that well.  It would seem too much... like a book plot?  too deus ex machina?  like it is 'fated' to happen, and I don't think it would work, because retribution would work to stop it

On 3/6/2024 at 6:51 PM, Shadow of Electrum said:

I really really like rithmatism as a magic system. I'm pretty good at math and geometry is one of my stronger math areas, so a geometry math system just makes me happy, ignoring the fact I have abhorrent handwriting and would make a terrible rithmatis

On 11/28/2024 at 10:14 AM, Duxredux said:

I think geometry really became fascinating to me when I ran into a game that showcases how the various geometric shapes interact and define each other.

I have toyed on and off about making a Rithmatist videogame (a tiny free fan-art one) to practice with pen/drawing inputs.  Each and every time I sit down to do a design document I get overwhelmed with all the possibilitys and the shear scale of the thing.  Hopefully i will get around to it eventually, but it is so complex and fun that it will take more than just a weekend to make it for sure!

My theory is that NAVANI will be champion. she can create anti-storm light.  She will use it to nuke the top of the tower (I like how Sanderson has already shown something like this happening, both in RoW -AND- the Lost Metal).  What if instead of a single bead of anti-storm light there was a LOT of it?  A ship holding 3 vats of ettmetal almost destroyed the entirety of elondell.  What would a mountain of towerlight do if introduced to anti-towerlight?

18 hours ago, the_archduke said:

As for Taravangian letting each side rule in turn.  What if each side held a shard separately?  Smart Taravangian with Odium and compassionate Taravangian with Honor?

What if its the opposite?  Compassionate Taravangian with Odium and Smart Taravangian with Honor?  What would put a damper on odium, no?

17 hours ago, StanLemon said:

I think there is an explanation to be had. It very well could have been that Odium revived him early to be used as a test subject to show the Fuzed that the new weapon works, but that El took it upon himself to do said test. Once confirmed, he went to the vault and this scene played out. Afterwards, El has his musings. 

^This

It feels like EL was supposed to be the lab mouse, but due to the Pursuers fall from grace he decided to flip the roles on his own.  that would also explain why the guards were not warned about him: he was supposed to be dead from the anti-stormlight

19 hours ago, The Stick said:

El was so cool, and he murdered Jezrien, so Kalak was partly wrong. However, he viewed it as a mercy killing, but also a service? What a mentally disturbed character.

What confused me was ashe/Taln said in Oathbringer that Jezerien was dead already (don't remember the exact quote), but this made it seem that he was merely imprisoned?  Was this an oversight, or perhaps a way for restaries to leave the system (it killed his connection to the oathpack, not his soul)?  

17 hours ago, Namle84 said:

I think this would work if the language were “the burdens of 9 are mine” or “I carry the burdens of 9,” but “the burdens of 9 become mine” means that all 9 burdens came upon him at a particular moment… which does not work for Ishar

This might be because the burden was not 'his' but one he assumed.  The oath pack were not innately something that they HAD to do, but took willingly.  So, ishar might have always thought of it as 'I am carrying a burden for others'. he sees himself as a hero, so he does not consider 'his' burden his