Rybal

First, I am in the camp that believes that Shards are formed through the Nahel Bond as individuals progress towards becoming a Knight Radiant. I believe that the betrayal was the Recreance, when the KR gave up their Shards. I think that that connection severed the bond, thus essentially depriving the spren of certain aspects that they had come to depend on to live, which resulted in their death. In WoK, Syl tells Kaladin that she can stop what she was doing to him, but that would result in her becoming like she was in the beginning. As their Bond grows, I believe that a Nahel Bonded spren becomes something akin to a symbiotic parasite, for lack of a better term. I doubt that they can survive apart from the one they are Bonded to. Up until the point where the KR started getting rid of their Shards, their Plate was still glowing. However, as soon as they abdicated their role, it became dull like modern Plate. ------------------- Thinking about this also gives me a new theory: The Plate and Blades that are in existence in modern times is only that which was discarded during the Recreance. We don't have enough evidence to show that there are currently that many known Shards, let alone enough to have survived for several generations of KR. If the Shards are formed during the process of becoming a KR, it is possible that it is tied into the life force of the spren powering that Bond. If that is true, then it is possible that, when a KR dies, the Shards go to the Cognitive plane and the spren is merged with the essence of the Shards. Those spren are also more likely to form future Bonds (having been through the process before), which would make the betrayal at the Recreance all the more important and could also explain why it has taken so long for Surgebinding to reappear. Hmm - I guess we'll see.

I think the fact that we have seen at least three other instances (in the released pages) where spren are bonding to future KR is evidence enough that the Nahel bond is not unique to Honor Spren. ------------------------ We've seen that Szeth's blade changes his eye color, though only when he has it. Rather than this being an aspect of Shardblades themselves, I think that it is more likely an aspect unique to his blade. It is the prevailing belief on Roshar that obtaining a Shardblade (bonding with it, for lack of a better term, since it seems to react only to its owner) makes the user a lighteyes. Cases of darkeyes obtaining Shards are going to be rare for obvious reasons and Shardbearers who win them are highly unlikely to pass them on to a darkeyes, if only for the fact that they would have no training in the sword. Chances are that, even among lighteyes, obtaining a Blade changes the eye color (speculation on my part), which would perpetrate this belief system. However, there is the question concerning Kaladin's lightening eyes due to Stormlight. It is safe to assume that Shards are a magic system that is related to Stormlight and requiring it for its very functionality, at least in the case of Plate. Likely, Blades are also linked in some form, due to their being tied to Plate so intimately. The lightening of the eyes, along with the prevailing theory surrounding its occurrence when one obtains a Blade, lends credence to the theory that Knights Radiant form their own weapon and armor as they reach their potential. Right now, Kaladin's eyes lighten according to the amount of Stormlight he has taken in. As he progresses along the path to becoming a Knight Radiant, it will be intriguing to see at what point his eyes become light permanently (and his reaction, given his distaste and distrust of lighteyes). Could the lightening of the eyes be tied directly to Stormlight, either through Surgebinding or Shards? Would that make the original Shards more like concentrated Stormlight that can't be taken in? (wild speculation) Once a person has been around enough Stormlight for a long enough period of time (not including the trapped Stormlight in gems/fabrials) . . . perhaps that is what causes the lightening of the eyes? That said, there is 100% a genetic component as to whether a child will be light or darkeyed. It is interesting, however, that we have thus far seen evidence suggesting that a darkeyed individual can become a lighteyes, but not the reverse. I wonder what is ultimately going to end up happening.

Especially important for someone who, though very good at killing, does not like doing it. It would fit well with his nature and his past of learning to heal.

Sorry in advance, but these are going to be out of order from the chapters given. I'm writing them as I think them. First, there's no way that the potential for the glyph to have a dual meaning of death and broken is a mistake. I still think it may be too early for the desolation, but SOMETHING major is going to happen. I just hope that this book doesn't end 60 days after the end of that chapter. Here's hoping it is the climax of the book, similar to the Tower chapters in the first one. Shallan's a lightweaver, right? If so, that name makes me really think of Hoid's story to Kaladin. It also might explain why they would attract liespren. Well, for any who may have missed the fact that Shallan has a shardblade, after reading her chapter, you certainly can't deny it now. I must say that I am surprised at the amount of information that Brandon have given out in these passages regarding the nature of spren, investiture, Knights Radiant, etc. It almost feels like he doesn't want us doing new theories (kidding - mostly). Kaladin almost dropping his spear was pretty priceless, as was his comment about how he would enter, especially since he really could with no special equipment. The naturalness of taking in Stormlight is also interesting and seems to contrast with Szeth, who seems to need to actively take in Stormlight. The plan to have Adolin duel other Shardbearers to grab their Shards is going to be a lot of fun. Unfortunately, I can't help but expect it to backfire in some way. What else can I say? Seven weeks seems too far away.

I'm looking forward to Dalinar figuring out what Kaladin is - most likely through Kaladin saying one of the ideals and Dalinar recognizing it from The Way of Kings. We know that Shallan believes she killed her father (which is most likely to be how she got her shardblade), but I want to see how and why. Why was Jasnah considering killing her sister-in-law? Who else is going to be bonding to a spren? Will we learn more about where Szeth gets his abilities or will that wait? (I'm guessing it wait until his book) When it comes down to it, though, what I'm most excited about this book is actually having the book in my hands and finally seeing what happens next.

vikorr, I don't think that Surgebinding necessarily needs to be granted. It could be that, by travelling to Urithuru, the person in Dalinar's vision would put himself into a place where there would be spren looking for those to bond with (i.e., they're also drawn to the city). I am certain that you would have to be a surgebinder to be a KR, and we also know that the abilities of those with the Nahel bond have greater potential than those who acquire the means to surgebind by other means. He cannot promise a position, because a spren would still have to choose whether to bond with the guy. It is likely that they'd train him and his personality would dictate which order he would become and which spren might bond with him.

I'm not sure he would have had to actually measure them. Isn't it sufficient to simply record and believe the values?

What if Sanderson tied the two concepts together? Maybe the Nahel-bond is bound to the shardic investment, sort of like a spigot controls the amount of water flow from a faucet? Before The Way of Kings, it was all or none, but now, there is a more gradual investment? (theory)

Look at it this way. In the interlude with the couple who were studying the properties of spren, we see that merely defining and accepting the measurements of specific spren affected the spren themselves. This is the basis of my theory. By writing The Way of Kings, I believe that Nohadon modified the basic understanding of the interaction of spren and the Radiants - the Nahel bond itself. That doesn't mean that he created the Radiants, because they were already there, but that he may have provided a bit more structure to the way that a Radiant became a Radiant, i.e. gain more access to the power of the Nahel bond as they began to embody the ideals that he placed in The Way of Kings. While writing down the measurements would have been sufficient to lock in the measurements of a single spren in the interlude, to do more would likely require a much wider spread of the information. Writing it down may appear to have been the act that locked the spren in place, but it is entirely possible that reading and accepting that the spren was locked was enough. Expanding from this thought, if information defining the Nahel bond was written down and accepted as true, it could have fundamentally altered the Nahel bond to where it currently is. Nohadon's statement of "Not all Spren are as discerning as Honorspren" seems to indicate that he desired to make them so, or at least to make sure that even those who were not would produce honorable individuals. Remember that, during the visions that Dalinar had of Nohadon, everything was pretty much devastated. Nohadon had to rebuild - both the nation and the Radiants. I think that the Radiants had already fallen to a certain degree and that, by writing The Way of Kings, Nohadon sought to restore honor to the position and to the Radiants themselves. As for the Heralds, we know that they weren't around the majority of the time, particularly between devastations. We also know that the Heralds departed/separated themselves from the Radiants and the rest of Roshar with the events of the Prologue. So Jez and his association with the Windrunners would have been more of a figurehead by the time that Nohadon was around. I think that calling them by the order could be a link to either what the individual Heralds were (i.e. Jez was a Windrunner) or to the areas that are associated with them because of the Ars Arcanum. I doubt that it necessarily means that they are the head of the order

I wasn't saying that the Heralds were created or defined by Nohadon. I said that I thought the Radiants were. The heralds are a group of 10 specific individuals that we see in the prologue to WoK. However, just as spren exist prior to having their dimensions measured and noted, the Radiants did as well. I believe that Nohadon saw a need for the power of the Radiants, and the Nahel bond in particular, to be regulated. In writing The Way of Kings, I believe that he did that - trapping a good deal of the power of the bond behind the gates of the oaths.

I think that what Nohadon did was DEFINE the Radiants. Similar to the way that that one interlude showed that spren could be defined by noting their measurements, by writing The Way of Kings, Nohadon may have defined how the spren ultimately interacted with those who would be the Knights Radiant. In a way, I think that he limited the original power that one could have without having spoken the oaths (by weakening the strength of the Nahel bond). The Way of Kings, IIRC, contains 40 statements. Each of the 10 orders has 4 oaths beyond the oath common to all. I would expect that those oaths correspond with the orders of the Radiants. We've already seen that speaking the second oath strengthens the Nahel bond significantly. I probably could have worded that more effectively, but it should convey something of what I am thinking.

I am right there with you in thinking that Kaladin will get a Shardspear. Personally, I think that Shard weapons and armor are initially formed by individual Knights Radiant and suit the users. It wouldn't surprise me to see Kaladin with a Shardspear and in a lighter armor than plate by the end of the series, because that is what he is most used to/comfortable with. I could see the weapon and armor appearing once the last of the ideals for the particular order is said (which would make for a POWERFUL scene to watch), displaying for everyone to see that that person is a full fledged KR. The scene where Dalinar saw the armor of the KRs glowing with runes could be those KR who formed their own weapon/armor and were fully attuned to it. The glowing armor would also explain the name "Knights Radiant". Furthermore, I think that Szeth's Blade is that third category. My best guess is that, in addition to Honor Blades and Shardblades, the third category conveys the abilities of specific orders of KR upon the Blade's user. That would explain how Szeth is able to have the abilities of a Windrunner without a Nahel bond, while also explaining the limitations, both in power and ability, that he has as a Windrunner.

Imagine some Edgedancers in there - with the Windrunners pulling them every which way. Or the Edgedancers are in place of a ball.

Cool - thanks. I tend to stay away from twitter.

Has there been any word as to whether the e-book version will release simultaneously with the hardcover? I know that they couldn't do it for the WoT books because of Harriet's wishes, but I'm wondering what will happen with this. Personally, I tend to prefer to read on my Kindle, but I still collect hardcovers as well. However, I would prefer to pick up the hardcover if/when he comes for a signing to support whichever bookstore hosts him. Thanks for any feedback (even if it just telling me that I missed the topic that would have answered this).

Forgive me if this has already been discussed (some of the topics have so much information, it is difficult to catch up fully). Also, I do not have my copy on hand, so I do not have the references. Re-reading, I noticed a lot of similarities in how Dalinar's Plate works to the way that Windrunning works. Specifically in comparing the descriptions in the chapter with the Hunt (for Dalinar's Plate) with the chapter where Kaladin is just figuring out what he can do and drops down from the bridge and Szeth's chapters. (I am sorry if this isn't entirely clear, but I am just typing as I think) So I was wondering if, just as there are 10 different orders of Radiants, are there multiple types of Plate as well? So far, we have really only had descriptions of how Dalinar's works but I seriously doubt that it is a coincidence that Plate functions in a similar fashion to Windrunning (reorientation, expulsion of Stormlight on landing, etc). Furthermore, it stands to reason, since the Radiants were recognized for utilizing Plate, that Plate would have been created to amplify the abilities of the Radiants or, at the very least, work in conjunction with said abilities. We know that Dalinar has stated that he will pass on his Plate to Renarin and that Szeth has stated that Lashings don't work on Plate very effectively, but what if he doesn't understand it properly? What if the lashings would work from within Plate, but only if you were using Plate that had been properly attuned to your particular abilities? What would happen if Kaladin were to attempt to use Dalinar's Plate? Let me know what you think (or if this theory's already out there).

After reading these posts, I can't help thinking that what Szeth did that was so against the Shin is to not only consider taking up arms himself in preparation for the Voidbringers, but to encourage others to do the same. To do so, he would have had to pursuade people that the Voidbringers were real, which may be against Shin teachings (hence the Truthless title). His honor may only be satisfied if he can prove that the Voidbringers were/are real.