Meghan1Q84

While I agree with you I think Captain Kaladin has a nice ring to it. Just roles off the tongue. General Kaladin not so much. Maybe Colonel Kaladin? Radiant Kaladin sounds cool though but he still has some oaths to go before I think that title should be used officially. Anything but Brigadier Bridge Boy.. Lol BG Bridgeboy. Ok, because this is a long post, as an FYI you can probably skip everything and go straight to the Important Part below. Everything before that is mostly background. Hi! I'm back from a rather long hiatus and pleased to be rejoining you. I saw this post and having been an Air Force officer I wanted to offer some thoughts on why he is staying at captain at this point in the narrative. I agree with most of you. During extreme times of war, prejudices tend to become less important in the wake of meritocracy. Aristocracy *hates* meritocracy even while it's members are forced to tolerate it in the interest of...you know, not being slaughtered in their beds. Someone who is probably important said that death is the great equalizer. I'd posit that the threat of death takes one of two extreme paths-- either it makes the gap between the upper classes and the lower classes unfathomably wide (think the English court abandoning London for rumors of plague while the general populace had to stay behind). Or it can create bridges to power for plebians that would not exist outside of chaos (consider the peasant born Minamoto Yorimoto, first shogun of Japan). I think most of us would agree that Roshar has followed the latter course. Certainly Alethcar has moved beyond threat of death to actual massive casualties--but it's still at the middle point where opportunities must be opened to the Third Estate in what was once a socially static world. And while that is a silver lining for the masses, the trouble is that beyond the tipping point, with too much death, opportunities also vanish – – no need for an administrative position with no one to organize. But we're not there yet, most of you know all this already, and I'm getting off track. So it's a valid question. Why doesn't Kaladin have a field commission to be a Lieutenant Colonel or above? The Important Stuff I was an Air Force captain before combat injury and medical retirement as a Wounded Warrior. Captain is the highest rank among company grade officers. This is where you have the most hands-on connections and leadership roles with your troops. When you get promoted to Lt Colonel or even General, your focus is no longer on tactics, it is now on the operational or possibly strategic fields of war-- and that job is mostly strategizing in a tent (think Mat Cauthon). Even today it is a very difficult transition for commanders to go from being company grade officers to field grade officers for this very reason. Sanderson gave us the perfect illustration of this conflict through the evolution of Dalinar's own military career. I suspect that Dalinar would like to let him stay in the position for as long as he can spare him. Every decent officer I have ever met who held a command position as a captain, wishes that they hadn't had to be promoted out of it. You are a direct leader. You take care of your troops and the buck stops with you. Promotion after that point mostly entails desk work and delegation. Are there other reasons why he isn't being promoted immediately? Almost definitely... if there weren't Sanderson wouldn't be the complex author that we love.

@Ookla the Mulkfather Thank you for sharing your story! That's just the sort of real world answer that Mr. Sanderson would know and I appreciate your sharing it with me : ) @maxal , you're are quite right--there are many answers in real life and in real life the question is probably meaningless because as Mulkfather points out, he has had a happy life relationship and his nerves on the wedding day had no impact on it for the worse. You have both convinced me that in the real world it would be reading far too much into trivialities to try to analyze Shallan's priorities as she begins marriage. And as a sidenote, I was so happy for her that she finally found a measure of self acceptance, forgiveness, and joy in being herself. But in literature, the first moments in a marriage almost always foreshadow how the relationship will turn out with examples from Anna Karenina to The Thornbirds to Dr. Thorne to even mush (sorry Twihards) like Twilight (notably, Wax and Steris have been a strange, but very! refreshing exception to the rule). Nevertheless it is due diligence in literature to critically analyze the new couple's initial reactions, thoughts, and priorities. For Dalinar it was 100% about Navani and for Navani it was about Dalinar. I find it strikingly ominous that at no point does Shallan appear to be head over heels in love... in a fantasy novel... written by a notoriously incurable romantic. It's just not a good sign when the voices in your head sternly remind you that you could do worse...and that you probably couldn't do *much* better than him. That particular moment made me physically wince. Whitespines-- @maxal I like how you phrased your perspective re: the general alignment of WS with Adolin. It works without Adolin necessarily going dark. And I recall a moment in WOR where Kal, Shal, and Ad go to the menagerie where there was supposed to be a white spine. It wasn't doing well and Kal both respected and pitied it as one killer and former slave to another. One could easily align Kaladin with Whitespines as well--perhaps highlighting similarities between Adolin and himself. He made quite a point on the honor ship to mention how he languishes in imprisonment. And how many times does Shal liken him unto an impassioned or a confined "beast"? Perhaps we are meant to see both men as wild creatures at heart. Perhaps there is an even larger picture that I am missing as yet : )

Well I have a question. I am not married, but to those of you who are. The day you got married did you think to yourself "This is really great, a day just to celebrate me accepting me!" Or did you think, "I'm so in love with XY, this is the first day of the rest of our lives together, what a wonderful day to celebrate us being us!" On the one hand, people talk about the wedding day being "the bride's day" and I freely admit that I am without practical experience. But I sense that the first response should be celebrated with a really great birthday party or actually anything rather than a marriage. Especially when you're celebrating the relative integration of 3 dissociative identities. The fact that she was not thinking about being in love with Adolin in that closing paragraph was troubling. Such a contrast between that and D&N's wedding. Whitespine connection. I could definitely see this but maybe in another manifestation. Adolin likes having his ego stroked and he hasn't been...domesticated before Shallan. He has not enjoyed sharing Shallan with the bridge boy. I could see him stepping out for some drinks and just a little consolation if she continues to leer a little too often. Who is that one scribe Shallan particularly dislikes? Good eye for metaphor!

Nicely put @Ookla the Grey Wouldn't that be a nice way to turn the whole "every woman with two X chromosomes must immediately fall stupid in love with Rand" on its head? Perhaps more tastefully... That drove me nuts. Particularly with Min. Sorry, I know that's another series, but clearly I'm not over it yet.

A little off the beaten track.... What if Kalashin...I mean Szeth... was married and becoming truthless ended that... O-o and if Szeth's ex (let's call her Imaginarya) had subsequently married one of the corrupt or at least willfully ignorant, leaders? If it were a telenovela, Imaginarya might have been pregnant and found out only just after Szeth left, forcing her to get married again very quickly for protection or possibly for the sake of a son's "legitimacy" in a society where everyone is named "XY son Bill" or "XX daughter Patty". Truthfully, I think that Mr. Sanderson is much too original an author to go with that entire battered old hat of a storyline. But I wouldn't be surprised if a girl that Szeth had been interested in (or maybe a sister?) is now married to someone he has to kill. He just isn't isolated or angsty enough yet, you know?:p Does anyone know from Sandersonian Q&A whether legitimacy is an issue for offspring within Shinovar?

Instead here is an image of verbal and visual symmetry that probably has profound cosmere implications. I pride myself for staying on topic. Cat memes? Always salient.

@FuzzyWordsmith Dude. Sanderson plays it close to the chest, BUT HE DOESN'T LIE. Yes, anyone who has ever considered Syladin for more than a hot second knows that it would take a LOT for them to be together. Our man is not saying anything we don't already know. Frankly, Sanderson could easily have said no there is no chance for them to be together. He. Didn't. If he had said a typical RAFO he might as well have given the whole narrative away---that is, if Syladin is in the narrative. And again, to repeat my past posts, I think Kal is going to have to at least flirt with a human relationship first. At the risk of repeating myself ad nauseam, I'm not sure that's the direction I truly want this to go... but I (still) think it is highly likely. PS. I really want Rysn to radiantly get the use of her legs back. I know that suffering and I cried when it happened for Hobber. PSS. Mostly dead. Lol. Nice

@Ookla the Grey Hey think of me as that nosy PTA mom making annoying play dates for her weird kid (ok now I'm the one making Shin slurs, but I don't take it back). It's totally interesting right? I mean Kal does have a Moash shaped hole in his heart and they started out as enemies too. Maybe Szeth will be broody enough to fit the bill? Imagine them flying the skies together, playing air games and stuff (eventually. Once Dalinar orders Szeth to have fun...I mean train people and develop his powers and other very serious things).

You know you bring up a separate point that I hadn't really considered before. Jasnah is a heretic and so is Dalinar. And the ruler is the head of the Vorin church as well as state. There is going to be some serious, high sparrow level religious upheaval to deal with...until now I was too caught up with screaming "slay Jasnah slay" @Ruinationday Rainer--great edits! I love it when people do the hard thinking for me. YAS. And I could actually see Vivenna warming to Szeth. If Szeth and Rlain are allowed to spend too much time together, Roshar might actually implode into a black hole of silent, existential isolationism Vivenneth? No no I've got it--Szezure. Lopen would have the perfect explaination for why their union should sound like a medical condition

Ha. So...Kaladlyn? Someone said that making up these names is half the fun and they were RIGHT

Well reasoned as usual RuinationDay, I will have to chew this over. Jasneth. That's a potent if rather unlikely combo--gives a lot of people what they want even if they didn't realize it. Really, I kind of just want him to have a friend, Sesame Street style. It doesn't have to be Burt and Ernie but, you know something...Now he's going to be thrust into association with Bridge 4 just by attaching himself to Dalinar. Rlain?

No Ookla, turn around, there is no mercy to be found in this forum! It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife! lol you have a point

There are some epic posts! I like it. Things to consider 1. Szeth. He spent 28 years as a fully integrated, respected, and grown man in Shin society. It's diminishing to say that he has the mind of a child and if you were a character in the book that would be a particularly insulting assessment because of all the Shin slurs accorded to them because of their racial configuration...but you aren't, and it is only a book, and this is where I sincerely hope I have not offended you. But, he didn't spend half his life this way, it was 7 years after reaching full adulthood. He didn't skip social experiences, he doesn't have the mind of a child--goodness gracious he is extremely intelligent, thoughtful, discerning (remember the purelake prison sequence), and he is loooooonely. I know you were kidding on this next part, but Nightblood really does seem to be the closest thing he has to a friend, and while NB is an entertaining parasite... I think we can all agree that NB is not exactly a "healthy" friend to have around. I don't even care if we ship him with a pal...this poor guy needs a connection. Maybe it will be his spren? Szeth is many things, but he is also the one man who is more like Kaladin than anyone else in the novel, and if we are comfortable shipping charismatic Kal, even with his PTSD, we should ask why it's uncomfortable to consider Szeth-- and I do acknowledge that it is uncomfortable. Even with just a very close friend. 2. I appreciate the "darker" sides of Syl that some of you mention and I chortled at the Pinocchio comparison^_^ The thing is that if Syl had no shading, she wouldn't be a real girl. But when we discuss characters and their future arcs, it's this weird amalgam between seeing them as people and then stepping back to see them as creations of the author. If Sanderson chooses to make Syladin, it wouldn't be his style have typical divorce-causing issues in their future, certainly not with the stakes involved. So for me, that isn't a concern. Also if he does go for Syladin, I'm like 90% sure Kal will need to have some sort of relationship with a human first. Maybe Laral? Syl liked her and Roshone the Gouty didn't seem too healthy the last time we saw him. I could see him flirting with the idea of a relationship with a proud, widowed mother Laral. One way or another it feels necessary to develop Syl's feelings for Kal and to deepen her understanding of a romantic relationship as well as to hone Kal's feelings for Syl in a way that other people on this forum are probably better equipped to describe than I am. I mean storms, Syl is just now playing around with convering her safe hand. She has some growing up either to do or to remember. Lastly, I think Mr. Sanderson has spent ALOT of time and effort to present Syl as a whole, albeit, developing (because really, who isn't?) person. She's the ancient daughter...and I don't think we can go back to seeing her as *just* a piece of investiture.

A post on everything but the kitchen sink. I have a question to pose. We all love Brightlord Brooding-eyes and want him to be happy one way or another. But if you think about it, the assassin in white is Kal's mirror image. So (and I include myself in this)– – why doesn't it organically occur to us to consider shipping Szeth? Admittedly we are not given as many emotionally connecting moments with Szeth.... but the thought feels like considering the romantic possibilities for a robot. Which is totally dismissive of Szeth as a complex person with emotional needs that have gone unmet for an appalling length of time. Him hanging with Lyft as a sidekick just...worked because he projects as this broken, androgynous creature. Which again, is reductive to him as a character. So. This is the littlest bit off track, but that's part of why I have haunted this thread the past day or two. It's interesting. Well that, and I hurt my back so I've been something of a captive (but grateful and very entertained!) participant. Szeth's story arc is a foil and a mirror to Kaladin's, particularly in light of Szeth's oath to Dalinar. Is there anyone you would ship him with? Maybe a man? For myself I have to say no, unless Lyft grows into a crush on crazyface over the 15 year gap. What do you think? PS. Word Dreamstorm. Word Starla. I want to see that too. Separately, I would really like to see a female rise through the ranks of the Alethi military in a traditional way and have her own storyline. There are so many female veterans in the world these days and absolutely zero stories about them. I want something like Lin...but with more body, more complexity to it. PSS. Nice post Fuzzy! Interesting Sandersonia to back it up. PSSS. Can we all quietly agree that Kaladin's face on the cover of WOR is creepy? Also, I get the impression that Alethi eyes are meant to have epicanthic folds. They make a big deal of calling Shins "roundeyes" and say the same of some of the world hoppers. It's kind of interesting-- for a society so focused on eyes, there is very little focus on eyelashes or eye shape or size as a contributor to attractiveness. Thoughts?

*snickers* Yeah, I know exactly what you mean, that's been my past relationship experience too. I mean the torture part has looked more like sitting through Star Wars card tournaments that felt like they lasted 15 years and less like human barbecue pits, but soul crushing pain is relative:p

There are so many interesting comments. What I would say is this--don't forget who our author is. Mr. Sanderson is a delightfully incurable romantic. In real life he has a heart for American troops, and I don't he would make a novel in which a classic PTSD survivor like Kal has no hope for love. Moreover, for Sanderson, love...or rather marriage as an expression of love, seems to be the pinnacle of a relationship between a man and a woman particularly when based on a foundation of friendship rather than a passing attraction. We are all super fans, you can come up with the examples as easily as I can. My point in saying this is that I don't think that the development of a romantic relationship over a period of years between Syl and Kaladin would ever be looked at as lesser than the bond they currently have--at least by our author. In fact as the only Spren/Human to have potentially make that union, well EVER, it would probably be something special. If it happens. I'm still not sure I want to see it, but I can see potential and a case to be made for it.

@RuinationDayRainier Well yes, and while I had taken it for granted that they would make new heralds with Murdery Moash getting after the old ones... well I suppose I didn't consider the next leap in logic... Well on the bright side for all those Shalladin shippers, looks like they'll probably have plenty of um, time together. Just...years and...years of quality...time...in which to get to know each other...and em, share their deepest ...secrets...fears...pains? Literally screaming their deepest feelings to each other...geez. I think I need to take a break and check out a few cat memes.

Damnation, Rainier that is DARK. I like you. The rest of us are quivering with our species discomfort, and you're just like hold my beer while I drag out the keg of hellfire and brimstone.

Ha! Love this post. Well, I find your theory entirely plausible. Although, I kind of dislike a time gap as a literary device to make unlikely but drama-inducing scenarios more convenient. Reference the novel "Red Shirts" for main narrative theory (and some awesome nerd reading). It's possible that Kaladin could be married to some random during those blind 15 years, but as soon as the reader's eyes go on main narrative target, problems begin... unless she dies within those 15 years and then you really don't have to deal with it because loose ends are neatly tied. But my dislike for a literary device has absolutely zero influence on whether or not it will be used The one thing I would say is that I think Syl is unstoppable and if she wants to cultivate more of a presence in the physical realm, I think she would find a way to get it, get it. PS. FINALLY they realize that Jasnah has more leadership in her little finger than anyone apart from Dalinar! OMG!!! From day 1, I've been saying that she is the eldest child and why don't they consider that? Seriously, people run away to CITIES OCCUPIED BY THE ENEMY to escape her commands and they didn't think to consider her as a potential Queen except as an afterthought? Slay Jasnah. Slay.

Hi Valand! Firstly, thank you for the quote! And I agree-- there's definitely discomfort there and some comedic relief. A simple solution to abate that discomfort would be if Syl were the actual partner involved. Verbal encouragement is generally called something else entirely in that paradigm shift. Clearly he's not ready to see her like that in this scene, but this is a gloriously lonnnnnng lonnnnnng series. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hello Straits! Thank you. I love Murakami's work and regret that I cannot read it in it's original form. 1984 is my birth year and from a literary standpoint that's an interesting time. On the other hand, 1984 is the year of the RAT on the zodiac, so you can't have it all

To hyarmenatan: I agree with you about the age thing. One of the really cool things about Sanderson is that he never normalizes sexual offences the way other authors do. How old was Sansa when she was married (the first time?) However our dear author has stated that the second cycle of 5 books will take place 15 years after the first 5 books. So...I suppose technically, future shipping of Lift is possible. But as previously stated, I agree that Syl and Kaladin at least seem inevitable whether we like it or not. I don't know if there's room for a third person between their bond, the way that there is with Pattern and Shallan. Honestly Kal even said he can't imagine being intimate without Syl being a part of it, cheering him on or otherwise (lol). There is something there that cannot be ignored.

Ps. @ Dryone_2 The business opportunities

Hi! Part B. I also considered the connection to Tien. I thought about including it but decided my post was long enough. But to address your statement, immediately after that moment, **Syl goes willlld over the rock Kaladin found!** If Kal found himself caring for Shallan in part because she reminded him of Tien (which I think is a pretty safe assumption, he literally says that she lightened his burdens – – something he said of Tien over and over again in book 1)...well how much more so does Syl? Part D. Yes, you are both quite correct. It's in the beginning of chapter 89, but I misheard Syl's initial description in shadesmar. An error on my behalf, nonetheless I believe that the overarching point stands. A lot of time is spent describing her as feminine, pretty, human, girlish etc. This could easily become material in bridging a gap between spren and human. It may take 30 years and the arc of the entire series to find out....

(Edited for error in part D:) I have to, painfully, agree with the Syladin shippers. Here is my evidence. A) That awkward moment when the spring captain said that the bond Kaladin and Syl formed actually *could* be compared to an elopement and that it was indeed a more intimate bond than elopement ever could be. B ) That moment when he sees Shallan macking with Adolin and hold Syl saying that he never loved Shallan anyway--that she reminds him of someone. Syl asks who? And Kaladin reflects on Syl's charming innocence. C) Their relationship is uniquely passionate. While we only really get a good view of two other examples of spren bonding (Ivory and Pattern), Syl has brought Kaladin back from the brink of self destruction...how many times? She has literally been someone for him to live for. That image of her hunting death spren in armor while Kal is recovering from exposure to the high storm comes to mind. D) She is always always described as very feminine and very pretty--even by Adolin... in the cognitive realm...when he thinks he might be in hell LOL. Ivory and Pattern are vaguely male, but mostly they project as gender neutral and inhuman. And not to belabor a point, but on that honor boat A LOT of time is devoted to noting exactly how human the honor spren are. Frankly, I wasn't convinced until the end of Oathbringer. I'm not even sure that this ship is something I want to see (although if Mr. Sanderson wants it to happen, he will find a way to win us all around to his point of view--I think that we all know he really is that good.) l think that it's even possible that Kaladin may even have a relationship with "the wrong person" (not unlike Dalinar with Eevee)... but this has the texture of inevitability about it.

The name Kaladin has always reminded me of the name Caliban. While aware that the latter name is generally pronounced with some emphasis on the last syllable, when read, the symmetry of the letters in the names has always stuck out at me. And then there are both Syl and Kaladin's powers which align each closely with Ariel. There's Prospero...an imported authority trying to establish order for the island using magic. Running the island like a deity, without actually being God. The play is literally called "The Tempest" and Prospero is literally the creator of all those storms. A um storm father? Are these coincidences or partial inspiration? Do you see more correlations? A second, but related question. Mr. Sanderson said that Kaladin's name was originally something else, but he changed it to fit regional linguistic patterns within his world building. Anyone know what it originally was going to be? Thanks, m