Alderant

So, I'm posting this here because I want this place, specifically to understand; because out of this entire forum, I feel like this place is the closest I've been to who I am, apart from some interactions with specific members of the 17th Shard community. I want to explain myself in a genuine capacity, so everyone here can understand what to expect from me going forward. If this makes anyone uncomfortable, or moderation feels that this post isn't appropriate for this forum, then please feel free to delete it.

Please be forewarned that this post contains a lot of very personal experience, and so if that makes you uncomfortable, then it's probably best to stop reading; that said, I have always thought of this place (Reading Excuses) as more understanding and accepting of diversity, which is why I am making it here.

History

A long while back, I submitted a series of chapters before kind of falling off the face of the planet. There were....a lot of things going on. For most of my life, I was raised Mormon, and conformed to a certain set of beliefs. Three + years ago, I'd begun questioning that faith and belief system. Some things happened, my depression was at one of its lowest points, my marriage was pretty rocky, and seemed to be flipping back and forth between love and support, and antagonism and hostility. I felt out of place almost every place I went, and among every group of people I interacted with. Fast forward to when I joined this group back in late 2018. I honestly loved my time here. I loved participating in the discussion, and I loved reading everyone's stories. However, there were a lot of things going on in my life, and this was an escape for me. I didn't realize it at the time, but I now know that's what I was doing.

In 2019, I started trying to submit a story that I was working on. At the time, it was a very cerebral (I thought) endeavor, and I thought I was approaching it from a specific standpoint, that of creating a story for my daughters. However, there were things in the narrative that weren't satisfying me, and things that people brought up that really bothered me--not in a way that anyone said anything wrong, but in a self-reflective manner that I didn't understand, and the constant running from my own problems, combined with the exhaustion of what I was experiencing, quickly caused me to burn out and stop posting altogether. For those that were burned by this that expected my feedback, I am deeply, truly, and terribly sorry.

The past year and a half have been a very rough journey of self-understanding and discovery for me, and all of this came to a head late 2019. In the course of less than three months, the following life changes happened, and I'm honestly not sure if I've mentioned any of this here or not:

• I was diagnosed with severe ADHD-inattentive type, for which I am now on medication to treat.
• I discovered I was demisexual.
• My wife and I decided to leave the church I was raised in, which is Mormonism. As a result, I suffer from many similar symptoms cult survivors exhibit when they escape their oppressive environments.
• My wife informed me that she wasn't heterosexual. 
• I discovered I was transgender. This, combined with the above, put tremendous strain on our marriage, and resulted in the following:
• I was ostracized from my family and forbidden to speak to my younger siblings.
• My marriage almost ended in divorce--we sought couple's counseling, and are still together, though the dynamic of our relationship is completely different than before.

Since all of this happened, I've been forced to reevaluate pretty much my entire life and world view.

Where I am currently

I now identify as a Gaiaist--which is my own brand of belief system, not really based on any existing thing except through cursory connections. Feel free to ask me about it, but the cliffnote is basically that I am now an adeistic theist.

I no longer believe in the Mormon church nor do I view it as a good thing. It has caused me a lot of harm that I am still learning to work through, and because of this, a lot of my former guards and walls are now nonexistent, though I am still learning how to walk, so to speak.

I am demisexual--this is a real sexuality on the asexual spectrum, and essentially constitutes asexuality except in specific circumstances where emotional connections are formed, after which sexual attraction is possible. As such, I truly don't understand sexual attraction the same way most allosexual (non-asexual) people inherently do, and this will more than likely come out in anything related to sex that I comment on or post.

ADHD means that I can get exhausted by things I consider work or difficult--more so than the average person. Things that involve a lot of effort on my part usually take a lot longer as a result, and I really struggle with not internalizing criticism.

I am transgender. I identify as female, she/her pronouns. There are a lot of markers throughout my life that were evidence of this, but due to my conservative and oppressed upbringing, a lot of those things were either severely repressed, or actively danced around in my mind, usually manifesting throughout my life as severe depression. I suffer from some pretty severe dysphoria, and that combined with my undiagnosed ADHD appear to be the major sources of my twenty-year depression. I am taking steps to change that and to be more genuine with myself and those around me, and I do take hormones. Things are still strained with my family, though my brother (who is also transgender) and I have mostly been able to patch up our differences and disputes as a result and are closer than we have been in at least twelve years--five of which were spent basically not speaking to each other at all.

What to expect from me

There are a large combination of factors that have resulted in the person I am today. I did not have a traumatic childhood by most markers; my parents were loving and kind, and are some of the kindest people I know. However, this combination of factors, taken individually, would have been difficult for any person to grow up with on their own, and in me they are all combined. This means that while I may not have had a traumatic childhood, I have a lot of internal trauma related to my sense of self and my own identity, and I will more than likely bring one or more of these points up when I feel it necessary--this is not an attempt to gain sympathy or pity, it is an attempt to explain myself and where I come from. It is also not an excuse--I am now aware of most of my issues and am working to correct them.

Going forward, my main goal is consistency; due to my ADHD, this is extremely difficult. I am trying to put systems in place to manage this, but a side-effect of the way ADHD (which is a neurological disorder) affects my brain, I never learned proper executive functioning. Things like forming habits and routines--that may seem perfectly simple and manageable to another--can be monumental tasks for me. Please understand this about me and be patient, I am trying my best.

Being on the asexual spectrum means that both in my writing or in my comments, there may be unintended assertions or insinuations. A good marker comes from a while back, when I submitted a post and was informed that a character I hadn't intended to come across as lesbian was, and was taught about male gaze/lesbian gaze, and female gaze. This was a great lesson for me, and one I've been able to extend to others since who weren't aware of these things as I wasn't. If I am taking the time to ask about something related to sex or sexuality, please do me the courtesy of explaining and not assuming I will understand what you're talking about or referencing. For example, if I comment on a character's physical appearance, chances are likely that I'm literally just describing the character's appearance, and there is nothing sexual behind it in the slightest. I don't even understand the concept of random people being "hot" or "stormable". And no, demisexuality is not just "normal" relationship behavior, even if it sounds like it to you.

I discovered that when I was writing before, what I was really doing was trying to explore myself, without admitting to myself that that's what I was doing. There was a large part of me that was repressed, and seeped out through "seemingly innocuous" manifestations that I now recognize for what they were: gender dysphoria. As a result, that story is being completely rewritten from the ground up with different focus. Eventually, I may submit it again, but I really want to get out of the mindset I was in before in writing it, so I will be approaching it differently from now on.

I don't have much good will toward religion in any form. My own "theology" is a very "hands-off", adeistic belief in simply doing good and having that good go out into the world. In this respect, I've pretty much pivoted to the opposite position of where I was before--religion and theology have always been a particular fascination of mine, but I now approach it from a very cerebral standpoint as opposed to a spiritual one, as an extension of culture and human history, rather than as an existence of a higher order.

I have taken great strides in trying to understand things like privilege, intersection, and targeted groups. As a transgender woman, I have gone from a prime position of privilege (white & male), to a targeted demographic (transgender). That being said, I fully acknowledge that there are situations and demographics that I will never understand what they feel, though there are some that I now do, and others that I understand only a little. I am not fully out in public yet. I still present as male at work and more fluid in public, and this is due to my work situation requiring regular interaction with people I am unsure of, including my father. Thus, I have become more aware of problems and am more likely to participate in reasoning and discussion involving these topics then before, when I tried to be simply open-minded.

In closing

Again, my point of this isn't to make anyone think they need to walk on eggshells around me or worry about "triggering" me or anything of the sort. I really just want to explain who I am now, because it's a stark contrast to who I was before, and I feel like you all are owed the service of knowing up front what you're getting with me.

In many ways, I'm still the same. I still love the medieval period, still study it fanatically. I still approach literature discussion from a character-based perspective. And I still plan to give my all to whatever critique I am working on.

But I also don't want to lead anyone on or let someone think they're getting something different with me than what I have said. I figured it was better to lay everything out and let you all judge, instead. But know that I really did love this community. I feel like I failed you all before, and that was a failure that I really took to heart. I don't want to do it again, and I hoping that by being honest with myself, and with all of you, I can be a better participant this time around.

Could I have an email address change? I'm not getting these emails and things are quite...different than they were before. Sorry if I'm breaking protocol...it's been a while and I'm just kind of starting to get back into the swing of normal life.

On 8/15/2020 at 10:49 PM, Koloss17 said:

So I was wondering what makes a quality post, as well as what kills a post. Some things to keep in mind whenever I or anyone else posts something, really, cuz I’m a self-conscious person and need this type of stuff.

As someone who had a fair amount of praise for content...well thought out posts, with references and calm, observational analysis tend to do well no matter the subject. Don't be dispassionate, but try to assert your position in a way that is contributing something new to the discussion, rather than reiterating points someone has already made (and possibly rebutted), or contains some new insight that hasn't been seen or talked about much. When in doubt, sit down and ask yourself "Would someone who doesn't share my view believe what I say based on what I've presented? Do I give them the opportunity to do so?" If yes, your post will be much better received than if not.

Lastly, use Wheaton's law. No one, no matter how good your arguments, will read and like your post if you're antagonistic every time you talk to some one who disagrees with you. Be supportive of discussion and encouraging of viewpoints alternative to your own, rather than dismissive and discouraging. Critical discussion doesn't equate to antagonism, and if someone pokes holes in your theory, try to incorporate those criticism into your ideas rather than outright refusing to acknowledge their view and if all else fails, agree to disagree.

On 8/10/2019 at 6:40 AM, Robinski said:

- "Go ahead and go back up to the keep" - Okay, sorry but this is all over the place. There are literally three different instruction here 'Go ahead', 'go back' and '(go) up to the keep'. I know characters are allowed to say what they like, and most certainly don't have to be grammatically correct, but in the opening of the story, it's crippling to have a line that is so vague. The pointer on my boding alarm swings slightly towards 'ill'.

Yeah, I've noticed that as well. That's going to need some revision, because part of the problem is that that's the way I talk.

On 8/10/2019 at 6:40 AM, Robinski said:

"their jetties creating a canopy" - Huh? A jetty is for boarding a boat, so now I'm thinking there are balloons that are boarded from high up on buildings? I'm puzzled by the use of this word and it isn't explained.

Jettying is a type of construction used commonly in medieval building construction, where the upper levels overhang the street as a way to improve the amount of space one could have despite limited floor space within the city.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jettying

On 8/10/2019 at 6:40 AM, Robinski said:

"about five meters tall" - This really challenges my acceptance of the setting. I'm presuming it pseudo-historical low tech, because of the carriages, armour, etc., but a metric until of measurement throws me hard into conflict with a modern, technological setting.

On 8/10/2019 at 6:40 AM, Robinski said:

"full ten meters" - I'll stress it again, I think this would be much more 'in tone' with the story if you gave heights and such feet and distances as yards. Also, 10m doesn't sound all the impressive, only 30 feet, compared to the language used to describe it, when you don't give us the height of the whole building. Seven stories could be 70 to 100 feet, plus another 30 and your keep is 130 feet high. Another thing that tripped me up is "seven above-ground floors" - sounds really awkward, which was unusual considering how well everything else reads, to me. I would cut 'above-ground': stories or floors are above ground by default. So, you could say it has seven stories and three basement levels (for example), and it's entirely still clear, I think.

Yeah, this didn't work for me either on a couple more read-throughs. I'll probably switch back to imperial.

On 8/10/2019 at 6:40 AM, Robinski said:

"a dozen bare-chested men worked" - Whoa! I'm struggling to understand how one smithing business can sustain that number of staff. I presume there are other blacksmithing businesses in a city, because there is almost always competition in business. It's just curious. It's not for me to say it's wrong, but it takes me out of the story trying to figure out how this huge blacksmithing business operates effectively. The space along required to accommodate what might be six forges? maybe four? To me, this is worthy of being the royal smithy the work of which is to keep the royal army equipped.

Noted.

On 8/10/2019 at 6:40 AM, Robinski said:

The thing about the armour not fitting It seems unlikely to me. If the man is the royal blacksmith, I would expect his work to be much better than it sounds. The errors in the work seems considerable, not just tweaks or L being a perfectionist. And then he doesn't seem to know about making casts, which I would expect a royal blacksmith to know about, since royal patronage would only come to someone at the peak of his profession. The end result is I'm left feeling unconvinced, like the writer is engineering this scenario for the purposes of being able to write and argument and have L be angry and forceful.

This has more to do with world-building. It's an error I'm working to fix in the next draft--basically, soldiery isn't a well-looked on profession, so people that put care into things made for soldiers are kind of supporting an undesirable business.

On 8/10/2019 at 6:40 AM, Robinski said:

So both L and A have black hair? That's going to be confusing (potentially). There voices sound fairly similar as it is. I know you've mentioned A is the 'obviously' pretty one, but that's not enough for me to be able to distinguish between them in my mind's eye. I don't want reams of description, but there are ways to distinguish characters, of course.

Working on this in the rewrite. L's hair is actually a very, very dark blue. There's probably a better word I can use...part of this just comes down to my personal color palette.

On 8/10/2019 at 6:40 AM, Robinski said:

The skirts comments made me stop and go huh. The implication is that L would be wearing a skirt in battle, because it's mentioned by the smith that the greaves would be covered it. I find that very hard to believe. The potential for tripping on it, or being caught by it by opponents, or it snagging on the something on the battlefield would be significant, I would have thought.

Again, this goes to the world-building. Legs are supposed to be hidden, so soldiers often wear slitted skirts over trousers to have the appearance of modesty while freedom of mobility...not that that's really understood given the current text. Working on fixing this.

On 8/10/2019 at 6:40 AM, Robinski said:

Also in relation to distinguishing between the characters and their stations, in my head, A is the more sophisticated, more gentile-sounding name to me: L sounds harder phonetically. Also, both characters have 3-sylible names. These things affect my ability to remember which character is the lady and which is the servant/companion.

That's intentional.

On 8/10/2019 at 6:40 AM, Robinski said:

"you’re awfully cheeky at times" - ten pages in, the banter continues, but it does not feel that the story is advancing. There's plenty go character establishment, but I feel you've done this already. I felt pages ago that A was cheeky and that was the tone of their relationship. This is another argument where I don't think you need it. It's the first chapter and I think it's important that you move on from the relationship stuff sooner and get to the bigger framing aspects. Who is L? Where are we? What is the status of the political situation (at war, peace, tensions with the lower classes, evil wizard threatening the Queendom)? I need more framing details by this point.

Thanks, that's a good bit of advice. Half the problem is just knowing if I've hit the situation thoroughly enough.

On 8/10/2019 at 6:40 AM, Robinski said:

If I haven't said it already, I find the prose easy to read grammatically, and I very much enjoy that since it makes the word so much easier to critique. This said, I go back to what I said before about logic and the little details that I find it hard to parse. "I told them I’d get what they needed" - L is a royal, this has been established. I struggle to believe that she would have the time to get supplies on behalf of the physicians. HOWEVER, this could be made convincing (which it very much is not for me in this form). The problem for me is that the physicians are described in this generic way. Why would a royal go out of her way for a bunch of physicians that she doesn't know well enough to use a name, that's essentially her running an errand for people that are not 'valued' enough in the story to be named. For this to be convincing, I believe it has to be presented as a personal favour for a trusted physician, a character. 'I offered to collect some bortle flower from the apothecary for High Physician Klemperer.'

- "when someone required the same medicines three times a day" - Ah, but wait, there is more to this than initially presented. If L has personal (i.e. family stakes) in this, I think you need to present that bang up front, which would partly diffuse my problem with the errand is first presented.

I'm glad it reads well. That's a good suggestion...I think I'll take your recommendation here.

On 8/10/2019 at 6:40 AM, Robinski said:

"like the bottom maw" - I'm positive that the maw is the opening: did you mean 'jaw'?

Yes. Typo.

On 8/10/2019 at 6:40 AM, Robinski said:

I'm not 100% sold on the child's mode of speak.

Lol. I'm actually mimicking the way my daughter speaks, so it's more phonetic than proper.

On 8/10/2019 at 6:40 AM, Robinski said:

- "cotton-mouthed" - that sounds rather insulting, and I'm not entirely surely what it sounds like.

This might be an American idiom...but it's a way of describing an accent that sounds a bit thicker and less precise than one might be used to. I might have phrased it the wrong way here though, because it's usually described as a "mouth stuffed with cotton".

On 8/10/2019 at 6:40 AM, Robinski said:

"who had a bad habit" - presumably, he still does have the bad habit, so 'had a bad habit' would be fine.

- "so they always ended up bad" - for one thing, this statement it too general for me. Surely they can't always end up badly, he must get it right sometimes, even if it's only by accident, it he's trying to do good. Secondly, 'ended up bad' is not great grammatically. I would say 'always ended badly'.

Mm. I'll think about this. Part of it grammatically is that I'm slipping through L's mental voice instead of my own, but it's a small change.

On 8/10/2019 at 6:40 AM, Robinski said:

There's good writing here. The prose flows well, for me, and I rarely felt the need to comment and things, grammatically speaking. I'm just not sure I'm convinced about some of the logic, which I've commented upon. Not great swathes of it, just some of the decisions, and small details of the set up.

So, how does it leave me feeling overall? It's solid writing, and the characters are interesting, entertaining, without being enthralling. I'm interested in the situation. It's good that we're not dealing with invading troops or monster attacking. The situation seems to be the potential unrest/disruption if the Queen dies. So, a more political angle, at least at first. I like that. The thing that nags at me is that I'm just not sure I'm gripped by the plot (which is pretty light at the moment) or the characters. Interested, yes; compelled to read on. Not yet. I would read on though, definitely, in the expectation that things ramped up in the next chapter.

Thanks for sharing. I did enjoy reading it. 

That's good to hear. <phew>

On 8/10/2019 at 6:40 AM, Robinski said:

Also, how thick must this thread be to make any kind of material difference to the weighting of a hem? I would think it would need to be actual thin chain. Gold thread, such as one would sew with, I think, does not actually have significant weight as such. @industrialistDragon, help me out here, am I close?

I.D. is correct that this is actual metal wire woven/embroidered into the skirts. Also,

On 8/10/2019 at 6:40 AM, Robinski said:

In my mind, without anything to tell me otherwise, gold thread would be more exclusive than silver, surely.

I need to mention this in the chapter, because gold is less valuable then silver here. Silver is...quite expensive, last time I looked at my coinage spreadsheet.

On 8/3/2019 at 7:27 PM, JWerner said:

Your prose is good, and it's nice seeing some straightforward fantasy (though I hope you'll avoid the pacing problems that plague WoT, if it's a main influence).

Glad the prose works. And yes, the idea is to avoid those pacing problems. WoT is an influence, but it is not the influence. There are no singular influences to the writing of this story. ( )

On 8/3/2019 at 7:27 PM, JWerner said:

A blinked, her lips parting in a half-smile, half-I-can’t-believe-you-just-said-that look of horror.—This line is indented at 'half' in the doc. Not sure if that's just a problem on my end. 

I didn't see this in my draft, so it's possible some formatting got wonky between scrivener and word.

On 8/3/2019 at 9:19 PM, kais said:

A quick demo.

(straight) Male gaze: Her hair was long and lovely, piled on her head with wisps that curled around her heart-shaped face and helped hide the start of the crows feet near her eyes. <--- objectification. Reviewing characters as sex objects, objects to be desired, youth > experience

(straight) Female gaze: She had long brown hair that was falling out of her ponytail. <--- hair coming out of a ponytail is irritating. Character empathizes. Character is not attracted to other women, so would not notice the same things a straight male would

Lesbian gaze: She had thick brown hair that curled at the tips. Gathered on her head, the falling strands framed her face. My eyes lingered. <--- although this can vary wildly depending on the character, generally lesbian gaze in SFF shows attraction without a deep objectification. Character being gazed at is a person, simply also an attractive person. Lesbian gaze may show objectification, but it is generally very easy to pull from male gaze. Male gaze brings standard baggage, flavors of the patriarchy, disdain for personhood. Lesbian gaze usually brings objectification through connection with the humanness of the character. 

Thank you. That's a helpful comparison.

On 8/3/2019 at 9:41 PM, hawkedup said:

Okay, but there's no explanation as to why the glowpost glows. Also, it seems like she just stops at it so you can describe it to us.

I could tell you everything in chapter one, but then where would the mystery be...? At this stage, it's more along the lines of asking "why is steel hard?" or "why is the sky blue?" I could explain, but it would be pretty banal, and I don't want to take pages to explain why glowstone and necrite exist and how exactly they operate. They're just part of the world.

On 8/3/2019 at 9:41 PM, hawkedup said:

What's the difference between black hair and midnight hair?

Midnight is a deep shade of blue. Black is black.

On 8/3/2019 at 9:41 PM, hawkedup said:

Why doesn't she just take her business elsewhere? You've already established that female knights are a thing, surely there's someone in town who specializes in female armor.

Because of propriety. And it's not under her authority to do so. That's probably something I could include, thanks for the idea.

On 8/3/2019 at 9:41 PM, hawkedup said:

So the biggest hook (for me) is a female character who rebels against traditional gender roles. The problem, however, is that besides showing her calf, she doesn't actually DO anything interesting the entire chapter. She has no goals or ambitions, nothing that makes me root for her. When I realized she was the princess, I became even less interested in her struggle because, quite frankly, it doesn't seem like a princess has ever actually had to struggle. So her rebellious nature comes across more petulant and spoiled than it would if I was reading about someone with less social standing. When I find out that she's on the cusp of being Queen, I find myself apathetic.

Noted. Sounds like you have a hard time enjoying a story from a noble's perspective--which means it will be interesting to hear your thoughts throughout, because the idea of 'life as a noble is easy' is something I'm working around, conceptually. As for this:

Quote

Especially with the way the inciting incident is blocked.The Queen has been sick before so L probably should've expected this anyway, and the whole thing is left on a big maybe. Considering the meandering nature of the chapter, I think this inciting incident needs to be more of a gut punch. A simple fix would be killing the Queen outright. It would certainly put a period on the meandering and tell the reader that things are happening instead of things might be happening soon.

I'm working this out. Probably going to split at the scene break, expand the opening scene for the sake of world-building, and have the rest happen in the next chapter, which will allow me to include a scene I'd left out for a later chapter. I think you're right on the incident needing more punch, I've been toying around with that inevitability. Will consider.

On 8/4/2019 at 0:36 PM, Ace of Hearts said:

Hey hey  Great to see some epic fantasy! It's been a while since I've read epic fantasy (crossing fingers for Stormlight Archive 4 asap), but I really love the subgenre and this piece helped remind me of my love for it!

Thank you!

On 8/4/2019 at 0:36 PM, Ace of Hearts said:

I find that many cis male authors (which I'm guessing you identify as?) talk about womanhood in a simplified manner compared to people who have actually experienced having an identity closer to a woman. It's something I struggle a lot with in my writing. In this case, I felt like the conversation with the blacksmith was pretty straightforward in terms of the commentary. L gets different treatment by the blacksmith than a man would have, which is unfair and rightfully aggravating to her. What I feel like I'm missing is hints of how this sort of treatment ties into all aspects of her life: her goals, her interpersonal relationships, her experiences in the past, her outlook on the world, ect. I think it's easy for some people to identify acts of discrimination, and harder to see how the whole picture fits together. Also sorta applies to Ad's reason for becoming a knight; it feels like a simple one to one reasoning that lacks the depth of someone who's been female their whole life like Ad would be (I assume).

That's helpful insight. I'll add that to my rewrite considerations.

On 8/4/2019 at 0:36 PM, Ace of Hearts said:

In terms of suggestions on level of story structure, I felt like we needed more conflict in the beginning parts of the chapter. I think it is pretty standard to have a character doing their own thing before an inciting incident; I just need to see a bit more of L working towards something and having a strong emotional investment in what she's doing. The blacksmith incident is certainly annoying for L, but again I didn't identify that as the main idea that ties the chapter together in terms of conflict.

Good point. I'll take that into consideration.

On 8/4/2019 at 0:36 PM, Ace of Hearts said:

I also thought that the blurb at the beginning (idk the technical term for those) could be even better than it is right now. To me, it reveals a bit too much too early on. I already understand exactly why the person is writing this and by the end of the chapter I think I even know who it is. It takes a bit of the fun and mystery away when we know too much this early on.

Perfect. (Ehehe) By the way, it's usually called an epigraph.

On 8/4/2019 at 0:36 PM, Ace of Hearts said:

I also agree with @Mandamon about needing a bit more at the end from L. And I don't think all of this work even needs to be done at the end of the chapter! It seems like a lot of her concern is about duty/lack of freedom as a ruler, so even showing how much her freedom means to her in the events leading up to the reveal could help us feel for her when we see that freedom being stripped away. I know that's a bit prescriptive; it's just the best guess I have as to what the chapter wants to be right now. If the chapter wants us to focus on a different aspect of L when this large event happens, that's certainly fine as well. I think that regardless, the setup cold be doing a lot of the work in making it so that we know how L's feeling right when the reveal happens.

I'm okay with prescriptive suggestions. I'm an assimilator, I take ideas and if they work, I incorporate them, and if they don't, I discard them. Never be afraid to offer a suggestion on what you think would improve the story--I'll choose whether or not I want to use it. Thanks for your thoughts!

15 hours ago, kais said:

Assuming you are purposefully coding L as a lesbian, I am pretty engaged with this story. The undercurrent of sexual tension keeps it moving when the world is somewhat slow and there does not seem to be an inciting incident yet. With that said, there are some definitive male gaze issues that need addressed, and whether you want to delete them or turn them into lesbian gaze will depend entirely on your story objectives.

I'm on board for another chapter, for sure.

...

If your lead is straight, then yes, this is very objectifying. I read it inherently as showing interest (there's lesbian bias there) in the squire, because it's very 'I am interest in your physical attributes.' If our MC IS a lesbian, it just needs some tweaking. If she isn't... you'll need to do a pass for authorial voice and male gaze

...

She was ordinarily a lovely woman, with warm chestnut skin and shimmering golden hair that she kept tied in a bun on her head, her utilitarian blouse and skirt only serving to heighten the appearance of a diligent and studious worker. <-- second male gaze red flag. Unless you want to really out your MC as a lesbian. If so, these could work, but they'll need to be coded differently. Lesbian gaze and male gaze are very similar, but code differently in writing and have different roots (and different ideas on consent and such). If you do want to show lesbian gaze, let me know and I can help you with the rewrite

L is straight, so clearly I had a problem here. I'm trying to go back and rewrite it accordingly. I think the problem is just that I was so focused on including description that I used the wrong kind.

HOWEVER, If you wouldn't mind helping me do a rewrite so I can better understand the principle, that would be awesome since I actually do have a character I want to be writing from a lesbian gaze in this story, and I want to make sure I do it the right way. Your experience would be incredibly valuable.

15 hours ago, kais said:

This also pinged for me. I don't understand the society at all. Women led but still all the same problems as a patriarchy? Historically I don't think that's how that works.

I'm doing a pass on this chapter to try to bring this out more, but the society is definitely a topic of address within the novel. I missed some points that ultimately communicated the wrong thing, I think. The standards of dress, for example, aren't gender-specific--they're imposed on both genders (which is why both genders wear skirts), but I didn't indicate that very well. There's also a bit of gender-flipping in the prominence of genders in public society--this is something I also didn't portray very well.

15 hours ago, kais said:

- pg 19: mention of goddess. Matriarchal society then??

Yes. Working on making this more evident.

15 hours ago, kais said:

You’re not some Order priestess!” <-- confused. Is this a patriarchal society with prostitutes? Or a matriarchal one with women in chosen professions?? I'm so confused

This is one of those things that's going to be addressed over the course of the novel. Your second idea is closer to the truth.

Thank you @Mandamon & @industrialistDragon, those are both very helpful bits of feedback. I'll go to work on what you've mentioned--some of those fixes should be fairly easy, but some will require a little bit of work. Thanks for your patience and understanding...a lot of it is definitely unintentional, so pointing out how it comes across and alternative things to consider is very, very constructive, even if it hurts a little.

If you could...I could use some help with 'oppositional' writing. I'm not even 100% sure where I'm doing it or what's making it come across (I might have an inkling), so if you could continue to keep an eye out for this and give suggestions for improvement, it'd be greatly appreciated.

Okay. Here's chapter one for the epic fantasy previously mentioned and submitted. Prologue is still under personal consideration, so rather than resubmit with something I'm not convinced I want yet, I'm just going on to the main story.

As a reminder/bit of information, this is an adult-level epic fantasy (like Wheel of Time or Stormlight Archive) written ultimately for my daughters to have female characters to look up to and admire. I'm playing a bit with some tropes and ideas, but at its core it's a fantasy written for women.

With that out of the way, I hope you enjoy it!

EDIT: I know it's a little long--I'm sorry!

Sorry for the absence, some things kind of went sideways in the last few weeks. I'm going to get back into critiques (I'd really like to catch up, I missed doing this), but can I also have a slot for next monday? It's a little long, but I wanted some early feedback before I go too far. Sorry, I know its not entirely fair to ask to post when I've not been critiquing. I can wait if necessary.

On 7/1/2019 at 5:42 PM, galendo said:

1) In WoR, the chasmfiend's eyes don't burn.  Kaladin kills the chasmfiend with a Shardblade to the head as it's swallowing him.  The creature dies so fast it doesn't even clamp its jaws shut in its death throes, which means it has to be dying from instant, Shardblade-induced death and not natural damage.  But its eyes don't burn.  I thought maybe that chasmfiend eyes don't burn, but nope -- the chasmfiend's eyes in WoK burn as expected.  Then I thought maybe for some reason a Shardblade through the brain wouldn't cause eyes to burn, but again no -- in one of Dalinar's flashbacks, he kills Highprince Kalanor with a Shardblade "straight through the face", and Kalanor's eyes also burn.  This seems very much like an error to me.

Two things--one, this is from Shallan's perspective. Keep in mind she's the epitome of an unreliable narrator, but also that in this scene she was much more concerned with the fact that the chasmfiend fell on Kaladin and possibly ate him than its eyes burning.

Second, We don't entirely know what "burned out eyes" looks like--no one ever really takes the time to dwell on or describe what they look like after. It's possible that Shallan's description of the eyes afterward as

Quote

"The chasmfiend’s head lay nearby, massive eyes cloudy. Spren started to rise from it, like trails of smoke. The same ones as before, only . . . leaving? She held her light closer."

is what the eyes look like afterward, or--equally possible--she's just not paying much attention because she's more concerned about other things. It could be a simple error, but either way it isn't completely story shattering.

On 7/1/2019 at 5:42 PM, galendo said:

2) Spanreed ruby replacement.  In OB, When Dalinar and co. don't hear from Kaladin as expected after he jaunts off to Hearthstone, Dalinar and Navani get worried, but not too much because "he'd likely run out of infused rubies."  This implies that one can replace one ruby with another in a spanreed.  However, this seems to directly contradict the Ars Arcanum, which claims that the process of creating a spanreed "requires splitting the original ruby.  The two halves will then create parallel reactions across a distance."  If this is correct, then one should not be able to simply swap one ruby in a spanreed out for a different one.  Also, as a Radiant, Kaladin should be able to infuse any gem with Stormlight assuming he has any left at all, so claiming that he'd "run out of infused rubies" should be akin to assuming that he'd run out of Stormlight entirely, which is an even more worrisome situation. Therefore Dalinar's shrugging off not hearing from Kaladin because he might have run out of infused rubies seems like an error.  That, or I'm really confused about how fabrials/spanreeds work.

We don't entirely know how fabrials/spanreeds work in the first place. It's likely Dalinar wasn't talking about replacing the ruby itself, but rather that he was worried about running out of the currency that makes the spanreeds work in the first place. That said, however, it's possible that the spanreed could have the ruby swapped out if the replacement was also conjoined to a different spanreed in Urithiru. Theoretically, so long as you had other rubies that were connected to a separate spanreed, you could take one "reed" and swap out the rubies as needed.

On 7/1/2019 at 5:42 PM, galendo said:

3) Rlain doesn't see Lopen's spren.  I might be off a little bit on this one, but there's a scene in the chapter "Alone Together" where Rock is helping everyone come to grips with the fact that things are changing faster than they like.  Everyone, that is, "except Lopen, who had snuck away from the group and for some reason was lifting up rocks on the other side of the plateau and looking underneath them."  Now I took this -- and stiil take it -- as a hint/foreshadowing that Lopen is interacting with a spren the others can't see, satisfying her curiosity in the same way that Kaladin did with Syl before their bond got far along.  And this would work great, except for one thing: that this scene is told from Rlain's point of view, and if there's one member in all of Bridge Four who a spren shouldn't be invisible to, it's Rlain.  If my interpretation of Lopen's motives are correct -- and if anyone can come up with a better idea, let me know -- then I don't see how Rlain could reasonably be unaware both that Lopen has attracted a spren and that he's interacting with one.  Something seems a bit off here.

This one actually doesn't seem weird to me at all--remember, spren like Syl can choose who they let see them. The only exception to this rule seems to be not Rlain, but Rock, who can see all spren regardless of if they want to be seen or not. There's no reason to assume that this rule of choosing applies only to humans, so the fact that Rlain doesn't see the spren and is unaware of Lopen's spren in general isn't weird in the slightest to me.

Also, Lopen's spren is male:

Quote

"Lopen would need to go looking for the little guy—he did enjoy the game."

Oathbringer, chapter 121

On 7/1/2019 at 5:42 PM, galendo said:

4) Dalinar speaks of an "old general's trick" that can't be all that old.  When Dalinar goes to visit Azir, he refers to using a spanreed for communication by "[flipping] the reed on and off to send signals, an old general's trick for when you lacked a scribe."  However spanreeds are only a couple decades old, as near as I can tell.  Evi uses one to ask Dalinar what to name Renarin when he's born (eighteen and a half years ago), but I think that's the earliest mention.  This isn't necessarily an error, since I don't think there's a hard date on spanreed invention and "old" can be relative, but it's still a weird turn of phrase.  Can spanreeds and fabrial science be older than they appear?  If so, why did it take them so long to go from spanreeds to other modern fabrials?

I think this one's been covered enough, but old is relative. Dalinar's in his fifties--so "an old general's trick" more than likely indicates recent history.

On 7/1/2019 at 5:42 PM, galendo said:

5) Renarin sends Stormlight into a wall with physical effects.  When they discover the gemstone archive in Urithiru, Renarin causes all the drawers to slide open by "sending a surge of Stormlight through [the wall] that extended from his palms like twin ripples on the surface of a pond."  Knowing that Truthwatchers shared a surge with Edgedancers, on my first reading I figured he was using Abrasion to make all the drawers spring free, but nope -- Truthwatchers have Illumination and Progression.  The thing is, neither Illumination nor Regrowth seem like they should have much of an effect on a stone wall.  Also note that I don't think we've ever seen Stormlight forced into a non-gem object without invoking one of the Radiant's Surges.  This leaves several possibilities: 1) it's a mistake; 2) Renarin's and/or Truthwatchers' Surges are weird and can somehow interact with a stone wall; 3) Stormlight can do stuff to objects independent of the Surges.  I don't know which of these is correct, or if there's some other explanation, but it seems worth pointing out.

I believe the wall itself is a "fabrial" that only needed stormlight to function--keep in mind that Urithiru had giant columns of gemstones that were meant to power everything from the lifts, to the plumbing. It's not unreasonable to believe that the wall of drawers served a similar function, and that's why it popped open when Renarin infused it--Renarin wasn't using the surges, per se, just turning the power on.

19 minutes ago, Eagle of the Forest Path said:

Since there are two of them, washer and dryer?

Gotta have clean clothes when you're flying at hyperspeed.

1 hour ago, industrialistDragon said:

As much as my academic soul cringes at using it as an official reference, Wikipedia is a good place to start when you have no idea what questions you even need to ask. Otherwise, PMs are a good place to ask questions you're too self-conscious to broach publicly. @kais probably has more lived-in knowledge, but if you can give me an idea (even a nebulous one) of what you're interested in/wanting to do/looking for/curious about/etc, I can make you a reading list.  

I do try to get proper knowledge before I write. But I might miss some things by virtue of ignorance (that it's a thing I should be concerned about). So, I'll ask forgiveness in advance, and if something comes up be sure I'll be asking about it.

Whew. This is great feedback.

12 hours ago, kais said:

There's some decent expertise on the board in these areas, so don't feel bashful about asking questions in the lounge or wherever. It's almost always better to ask questions first, then write, than to write and have a bunch of us go o_O'

I'll try to keep this in mind as I go, but part of the problem is simply I don't know what questions to ask. Thanks for the support.

12 hours ago, industrialistDragon said:

What does anything look like? Taste like? Feel like? Smell like? Where is this located? What are they wearing? Do their clothes have weight? Does the armor make a noise? Have a smell? Pinch? What is the table made of? What is the door connected to? Is this room large or small? How can a small room fit four people and a holotable? Does it have walls? Windows? A transom? A musty smell from too many bodies? Tacky photos of prior councilors in metrically-precise rows down the entire length of a wall, in an unbroken chain representing the past 500 years of prosperity? What's the air like? Why is magic associated with humidity (and wouldn't humidity just be unbearable to people accustomed to dry air and not like good the way it seems here)? Are the people large or small? Do they have hair? Eyes? Lips? Skin? BO?

These are really good questions. Thanks!

12 hours ago, industrialistDragon said:

Whose emotions do I latch onto, who am I rooting for?

That's also a good question, one I hadn't fully considered.

12 hours ago, industrialistDragon said:

This is a lot of names-with-no-context to be thrown at me at once. I'm having trouble distinguishing person-names from job titles or other place names. There's action and tension, yes, but without description and context, I'm left adrift and separated from it all.

I've tried to reduce and fix this in the revision. I got used to using certain terms in the plotting/drafting stages and forgot to properly introduce all of them.

12 hours ago, industrialistDragon said:

"panicked retreat proved"  -Or common sense. I'd run too if and armored person with a sword came at me threateningly, clean conscience or no.  I'm a little unclear what happened here. Person 1 (our POV) summoned person 2 (a knight) from a war  -- somewhere, somewhen, somehow -- said person 2's job title a few times and now Person 3 (too dovelike for war) is being executed because saying a job title means it's okay to execute people in a room? I just have no hooks to differentiate these people or to get a grasp on why things are dire enough to maybe possibly be executing a head of state and staging a coup? What do they look like? What does the room look like? Do they have feelings? What do things feel like? Smell like? Taste like?

Yeah, I've discovered I have some issues with setting the scene properly. I have trouble recognizing scenery in real life, so I'm working to fix this in the revision.

12 hours ago, industrialistDragon said:

There's a lot of intentional obfuscation going on here I feel like, and it makes me wonder why this prologue is here in the beginning. Like, if there's so much that can't yet be revealed, why put this story as the opening? Maybe it happened first chronologically, but if nothing can be described or explained right now, I feel like maybe it's better put closer to where it actually becomes vital information to have.

This is probably more likely a failing on my part. But that's a good question to consider.

9 hours ago, JWerner said:

And the dialogue needs an overhaul; to me, it felt like the characters spoke almost entirely in clichés. I would try to make it seem more militaristic without having to resort to exposition and medieval-like speech.

Noted. Though, I'll ask: what defines "medieval-like speech"?

9 hours ago, JWerner said:

The one thing I found myself interested is in Descending; what it is, how it works. 

That seems to be the most interesting part so far. Trying to fix this in the revision...I feel like the focus is off here.

9 hours ago, JWerner said:

Some narm-heavy exposition

Sorry, I'm not sure what that means?

9 hours ago, JWerner said:

So is P or A the First Warden? It's not clear.

P is MJ. A is Warden. But yes, that could distinctly be clearer. I'm wondering if I should write this segment from A's viewpoint instead. It'd take out the use of the magic system in the prologue, but it might be a little more of an engaging intro. Thoughts?

9 hours ago, JWerner said:

Sounds like the lifestream from Final Fantasy VII.

I draw inspiration from many places. The lifestream is one of them, though the similarities end here.

You'll probably pick up on a few little nods to my influential sources throughout the novel.

9 hours ago, JWerner said:

I absolutely believe you can improve upon what you've already written, and I look forward to reading it again if you re-submit. Please do so!

Thanks! Probably next week or the week after. I think I'm going to do a test run of writing this same scene from A's perspective, P is clearly not working at this stage for a number of reasons.

1 hour ago, kais said:

This was also my problem. He acts really unhinged and no one really reacts to that. Then he basically kills his daughter and he doesn't react. More reacts, please

Good to know. I've tried to adjust this a bit in the revision.

1 hour ago, kais said:

I don't understand the why of the conflict, but the actual action is great and elicits a lot of emotions. I need better motivation, though.

Noted. I've tried to make this more clear, so let me know what you think when I send the revision.

1 hour ago, kais said:

Emotions, reactions, worldbuilding need work. Quite frankly I think the 'EMOTE MORE' crit could just be copy/pasted into every crit we do on this site. @industrialistDragon always tells me to 'emote for the cheap seats,' which I find to be very useful.

Good bit of advice. I'll try to keep that in mind as well.

1 hour ago, kais said:

2) is there a reason the narrative is so strongly enforcing a binary gender/sex system. It's so strong that it makes me wonder if it will be subverted later, like it is being purposefully stated over and over to establish this element that isn't true. I should add here that I don't actually care if the world is super binary. It's fantasy, and it's your world, you do you. It's just the constant repetition of it seems either 1) foreshadowing or 2) weirdly political

1 hour ago, kais said:

- pg 4: I'd like to note that while I generally do not like most epic fantasy, since it tends to come with far too many wandering, chosen one men for my liking, I'm pleased by the gender ratio thus far

Hopefully, this ends up being an epic fantasy you actually enjoy. Prevalence of men vs. women in fantasy is a direct trope I'm working against. I've constructed the entire world around this concept. Primarily, this is an epic fantasy I'm writing for my daughters, so one of my forefront thoughts is female characters they can identify with and look up to as they get older, and it's an epic fantasy where mostly women are the heroes. I'm also trying to play with some gender dynamics and sexuality, though since stretching my comfort zones means that it's probably still a few steps behind what others might be used to, some patience might be in order.

1 hour ago, kais said:

- pg 6: I am engaged but don't actually know what is happening. I think I've had too many new words thrown at me without enough context. So I'm in a 'WOW IS HE EVIL??' mode while also going 'wait what now?'

Yeah, I'm trying to fix this in the revision.

1 hour ago, kais said:

Yes. Even picking this up cold in a bookstore I would move to chapter two. I don't generally like epic fantasy, and there's some warning signs for me in this prologue, but there were enough women and good characterization (to a point), and cool magic system, that I would move to chapter one to see if the world more firmly establishes and if female characters pop back into prominence and stay alive.

Cool. Thanks. I think this means I'm on the right track, at least.

4 hours ago, hawkedup said:

I'm sad that they come across as unfavorable since it was an intentional nod. WOT is my favorite series, and one of the many ideas from my "Ideas" file that came together to make this story was: "What if the Old Tongue from WOT was Spanish?" I'll see if any alternative speaks to me while I push forward.

The difference between a favorable nod and an unfavorable one comes from whether or not the nod seems to be a direct derivation. For example, I could reference in a story how in ancient history the world was saved by a tall, red-haired man (which is a nod to Rand). Directly taking something from another text, however, usually does the opposite in that it comes across as an author either trying to ride another author's work, or deriving from another author's work because they lack creativity of their own. And unfortunately, the way this was written, it comes off as the latter, not the former--you have Winter Night being an inciting incident (which is how The Eye of the World began), and the ancient language of your world is called the Old Tongue. Am I making any more sense? Being inspired by the Wheel of Time is great. My own book is heavily inspired by the Wheel of Time. But a good nod is a subtle one, not a blatant one.

4 hours ago, hawkedup said:

I'm curious what your thoughts might have been if I hadn't included the word anathema. My defense is that while speaking the Old Tongue is anathema, specific words being peppered in as part of local vernacular isn't "speaking" the language. Sort of a small defiance without actually breaking any ecclesiastical law. Your reaction seemed to spill into the entirety of the chapter, though, so now I'm thinking a possible reword or simple deletion of the word entirely might be for the best. Like you said, I could spend some time showing how people who actually speak in the Old Tongue are treated. Thank you for taking the time to point this out and elaborate on it.

A lot of my complaint would disappear, actually. My problem is the severity of the word 'anathema', and in my knowledge of history (keeping in mind this isn't my strong suit), even minor infractions of ecclesiastical law is met with severe retaliation--because it's kind of about control. If you allow people small infractions and acts of defiance, then you appear weak and unable to control your subjects. I'm not saying to change what you're doing--but I think you need some more concrete reasons why the people are showing this defiance (for example, they were taken over and its a secret thing they do among themselves to remember their culture!) And there's no better way to show this than through Z's own actions and thoughts.

4 hours ago, hawkedup said:

Thank you this is very helpful. In early drafts I feel like I do way too much internal dialogue and thoughts and you pointing this out makes me think I over corrected in this draft.

Glad it helped, haha. I always worry about being too harsh. From my (recent) experience, it might be better to err on the side of too much, rather than not enough. Easier to trim than create new content. That said, It's not necessarily about internal thoughts and dialogue as much as it is getting inside the person themself. Not just their thoughts, but their feelings, their body language, the way they physically react to the world around them. A boy touches a fourteen-year-old girl? That girl better react, either with disgust or heart aflutter. Boy falls and breaks his leg? Definitely should be seeing the panic of realizing what just happened, in addition to the pain. It's those kinds of intimate connections with the reader that tend to make the characters pop off the page--and it's something RJ does really well, almost to excess on occasion, so take some cues there.

On 6/15/2019 at 9:00 PM, JWerner said:

I have less than an elementary understanding of Scrivener's compiler function.

I haven't gotten to this yet, but I've been using Scrivener for years for Shattered Expectations. I'm hardly an expert, but I'd be happy to give you a few pointers if no one else knows it better.

5 hours ago, Robinski said:

"each one a critical [missing word?]that could not be lost, each one representing a squad of Ws fallen" - I felt there was a word missing here, critical what? Also, I was unsure if you meant fallen Ws, if not, then fallen from what? I was unclear.

Argh. It's battle, the missing word is battle.

5 hours ago, Robinski said:

Yes, this moral conflict between the two is much easier to read. I flew through it until I got to the term 'mi--'. I don't know what this is, so I don't really feel the stakes. I feel the stakes for humanity, by why do I care that the creatures want the 'mi--'?

I can clear that up.

5 hours ago, Robinski said:

"right outside" - Huh? If there is battle going right outside the war room then this is the last gasp surely. But, if the pal is actively in the midst of fighting, how can they just stop and come into a meeting?!

You're correct. Situation is dire, I need to go back and work that out.

5 hours ago, Robinski said:

"To his left, E gasped" - I always struggle to remember that I'm reading YA, when I'm reading YA. This sounds melodramatic to me, but I guess it's okay for YA?

It's not YA, so that's a problem if it's coming across that way.

5 hours ago, Robinski said:

"panicked retreat proved its own profession of guilt" - This is freaky. What exactly is she guilty of, expressing a contrary opinion? And now that disagreement is going to be settled by butchery. I really hope this P is the bad guy, that's how it reads to me.

5 hours ago, Robinski said:

"both of our peoples" - Confused. So, are the Ws of a different race?

Kiiiind of. They're human, but not...quite human. Similarly with the MJ. I can probably clarify this more, but I can't go into too much detail here because it's a plot point.

5 hours ago, Robinski said:

I rather like the description of going into the Un---- World, and it explains Descending to me, but it's rather late on page 9. I think you need something in place earlier when Descending is first mention. Just enough of a hint to keep me going till I get this demonstration.

That I can do. Glad that the magic system seems to be well-received so far.

5 hours ago, Robinski said:

"she whimpered" - I don't believe this of her. She's set up as the toughest warrior in the land. Seems like she would meet death with defiance. No one is coming out of this prologue well. But the female characters seems either to be traitorous or cowardly, which is not great.

Ooohh that is definitely not what I was going for. That's going to need revision.

5 hours ago, Robinski said:

"knife through butter" - Terribly clichéd metaphor. One of the tiredest ones out there. I know it's YA, and maybe cliché is not an issue, but this is very low-hanging fruit to me.

Argh, this isn't supposed to be YA, so I definitely need to go back and adjust some things here.

5 hours ago, Robinski said:

"one or two of the MJ gasped" - Wait, where did all these people come from? Blocking problem. This is the first I've conscious of anyone else being present apart from the people playing some part in events.

I have to go back and check, but I thought the line was "one of the two". There are only two others, H & Vin. This probably falls into the category of 'needs clarification'.

5 hours ago, Robinski said:

"Rag-------" - No way. This is just a completely undisguised (almost) anagram of Ragnarök.

That is correct. I've not been happy with the name, but I haven't figured out a suitable replacement yet.

5 hours ago, Robinski said:

I had a lot of issues with this. There is so much that is not explained, or which just happens with little emotional weight to it that it's very difficult to buy into the situation. The overall arc of betrayal and deceit is potentially very powerful, and the planetary forces at play could be compelling, but I think there is a lot of work to do on the clarity of what is going on, and a lot of the references, characters and set up.

I don't feel the danger of the situation, the hopelessness, the last gasp desperation. The Pal being called in from battling at the very gates of the citadel, I didn't feel that: I didn't seem plausible.

My overall take-away was a sense of confusion, and lack of explanation. In some case, I think the right thing to do would be to remove details that are unnecessary and can be introduced in the main story itself. 

One of the recent Writing Excuses podcast (Season 14, Episode 22) is entitled Characters Out of Their Depth, but it deals also with reader confusion. I recommend (if you haven't already) listening to the cast from about 13/13:30 minutes in, when Brandon poses the question about new writers confusing their readers and Mary-Robinette responds about good confusion and bad confusion. Well worth a listen, given the issues I think there are with this opening to the story.

Summary: there's potential, but needs plenty of work, IMO.

Thanks for returning the favor. I knew there were issues, but I couldn't put my finger on them--I was a bit afraid of being ripped apart and told "nope. This doesn't work at all" (self-doubt depression brain and all), so having potential is good. I was trying to avoid overwriting the prologue (I have a tendency to overwrite) and in retrospect, I apparently overcompensated and massively underwrote it. Writing a time-removed prologue is tricky, I've discovered, because it's a fine balance of divulging necessary information and holding back others for a sense of mystery...but clearly, there's more necessary information I need to add. So I'm going to have to dig back in and revise this...probably be a resubmit to make sure I'm hitting the essential points and getting the tone right.

Thanks for the podcast recommendation, there's so many of those that I've been wary of digging into them for lack of what to look at.

On the subject of this being YA, can you elaborate more on why it comes across that way? I don't intend it to be YA at all, so I want to make sure I know what I'm doing to make it come across that way and fix it.

Thanks for the feedback!

STANDARD DISCLAIMER: For demographic information, keep in mind that I am a white male nearing his thirties, married, with two young children, and come from a background of being LDS, conservative, and with a long history of chronic depression, so these things may color what I say during review. I try to be as open-minded and unbiased as possible.

Sorry for the late reply to this, I've had a few things on my plate. Keep in mind that I haven't read the rest of the comments here yet.

Let's dig in.

Nitpicks:

Inconsistencies/Concerns:

Problems:

Critique:

Before I say anything else, let me state that this chapter was far more interesting than the last. The pacing was better, and stuff actually happened, which is great. I didn't find myself skimming, so that's a big improvement. Excepting the pinky promise at the end (which is childish without a reason for teens to be using it), there was a lot less overall immaturity, which is much easier to read.

There were some problems. Most egregious being your use of Spanish--and the problem isn't that you use it! Let me make that clear. I have absolutely no problem with the way you include Spanish words and phrases within the text. Not italicizing them makes them feel organic within the terminology. Where it becomes a problem, is in this idea that the "Old Tongue" is anathema, yet no one bats an eye at its use. In fact, its use is so common that they call themselves the "pueblo" and refer to the festival as a "fiesta" and the worst they get is a raised eyebrow. This isn't anathema. Historically, anathema was one of the highest declarations a church could declare on people or ideas, second to heresy. It was basically outlawing an idea or person, claiming it was cursed and people could be punished or declared anathema themselves by just speaking to or helping a person so declared. It's a Really Bad Thing with Bad Consequences. If it's really so bad, so outlawed, than even a single use of the word should have consequences--especially when it's to someone as high up the chain as a General!

Another huge problem is you so much time telling us what is happening. Z feels more like a passenger of the story, rather than a main, viewpoint character. We never really know what she's thinking or how she reacts to a situation, unless the Plot demands we do, and then we get a whole bunch of info telling that says "she does this/feels this/did this thing because" so that the Plot can move forward. And as a reader, that's frustrating. I highlighted one part in the Inconsistencies/Concerns and provided an example of how you can work on changing this throughout your story.

Next, we come to the elephant in the room, which is Z herself, and this is linked to the previous two points. First, I don't understand why she uses so much Spanish when it's anathema. Hopefully by now, I've covered why that is thoroughly enough. Generally speaking, a character that would go so against societal law like this would be a rebel, not a "I want to fit in" kind of character. Second, there is nothing about Z to grip me into the story. She's a fourteen-year-old girl whose mom ran out on their family and whose dad is borderline negligent with his daughter. That's it. She has almost no emotion that comes through the story, no interesting quirks to make me want to understand her better, no internal dialogue to let me know her thoughts and feelings. And that's a problem, because buying into your MC is one of the surest ways of making a reader invested in the story. If the reader cares about the character, they'll naturally be more eager to see the journey that character goes through.

Finally, I still see nothing about your world that is exceptional, that makes me really want to continue reading. It still reads as a kind of generic western fantasy setting, just one with Spanish names and Hispanic food. Your soul lanterns are the one thing that's different in the world (that I really want to like), but they're so underplayed that they're bordering on unnecessary. There's no intrigue about the lanterns, no personality. I'm guessing you're setting up Z to have a startling revelation when her soul lantern forms--but the soul lanterns themselves are uninteresting and not really integrated with the world culture.

Those criticisms aside, I think Z is a much better "in" character than L. L has too much going on for the reader to immediately buy into, and definitely would work better after some introduction to the world. I liked that so much happened, and overall, the dialogue was miles above what was presented previously. This submission actually seemed to be going somewhere, with a specific slant in mind, and you have some excellent seeds for potential drama if you choose to pick them up--conflict between Z and her parents, conflict between Z & R, the emotional trauma and baggage of being an outcast, these are all really good, driving motivators that are very relatable to your target audience.

I'd like to see you spend more time on the soul lanterns. Really dig in and tell us why these are a thing--what makes them something unique? They take shapes...but why does everyone have the same shapes? How do these soul lanterns integrate into society? Is the soul lantern a determining factor in a person's social class or profession? Is it an expression of their own unique personality or spirit? I really feel that you have the potential to tighten things up by focusing on this one thing--but right now, they seem to just be flavor in the world, and that's not interesting. Make it interesting.

I'd also like to see you flex your showing muscles. Take some time, pick one segment of your story, and really try to dig into how the world looks through the character's eyes. How do the things others say affect them, mentally and emotionally? How might they react to provocation, on the inside? How are their thoughts all jumbled by their experiences? Focus only on the character, then submit that or get some feedback to see if it reads better.

Good work. Keep it up. Every submission gets better, and that's what we want to see.

20 minutes ago, Mandamon said:

However, my main problem is with the lack of reaction of anyone else to what the MC is doing. He accuses E of being a traitor and everyone just goes along with it. He kills two people while others are watching and no one comments. Basically no one even tries to stop his plan from going through. He also straight up kills his daughter when he could have saved her, at least for a few more minutes. I mean, unless he is totally sociopathic, he's got to have some reaction to that.

Mmm...good point. I knew there was something off in there. I'll have to go back and clarify that.

20 minutes ago, Mandamon said:

This reminds me a lot of Brian McClellan's Powder Mage series.

I've never actually read it. Hopefully it's not too similar in the long run.

20 minutes ago, Mandamon said:

eh? Forced the warden? Just to come in a room? Why?

That's probably something I can clear up.

20 minutes ago, Mandamon said:

if this is the leader of all the soldiers they're fighting over, maybe lead with that description.

Also something I can clarify.

Thanks for the feedback @Mandamon & @Truthweaver!

39 minutes ago, Mushroom Catalog said:

Will reapers attack the cyclops.

Yes, if you draw enough attention. There are defense mechanisms you can put on the Seamoth & Cyclops to help protect them, though.

Just now, Mushroom Catalog said:

Thats what I did this weekend! I got the cyclops, built it, collected a ton of lithium from the mountain island, explored the Jellyshroom cave, didn't die from crabsnakes, got magnetite and now I want to build the stasis rifle because I had a tramautic experience with a reaper while Seamothing around the Aurora and apparently, the propulsion cannon I made only affect tiny things. 

Ooohhh good luck with that. It only works if you can shoot them in the face. I mentioned those things scare the crap out of me, didn't I?

So long as you're careful around the Aurora and stay close to the surface, you can actually avoid the reapers there so long as you stick to the side closest to the life pod. The area behind or in front of the Aurora, however, not so lucky. Also be wary of bone sharks. They're vindictive little jerks.

V for violence.

This is the prologue of the epic fantasy I’ve been working at. For anyone who read the original submission back in January, please disregard almost all of it. The story’s been massively overhauled, with a very different focus than before. Keep in mind that this is also a prologue, without Chapter 1 attached to it (which will come in the next submission). It takes place ~2,000 years before the events of the novel. It’s liable to change or be omitted entirely if I feel the story stands strongly enough later down the road, but I wanted to get it out of the way first.

I also will be playing a bit with some standard fantasy tropes with this novel. I’m trying to avoid clichés, but you might notice some trends. You have been warned.

It is a (first) draft, so not as interested in line-by-lines unless something is written really confusingly. I’m concerned primarily with the following questions:

• How do you feel about the conflict? Why?
• Is what I’ve written interesting? What about it (if anything) is interesting to you? If not, why?
• What questions does this makes you ask (if any)? If the answer is no, why?
• Is there anything you feel I do well? If nothing, how can I improve?
• Is there anything you feel I do poorly? If nothing, what can I strengthen?
• Most importantly, does this intrigue you enough to want to continue reading?

The above questions are the ones I’m primarily concerned with as of this draft, but don’t let that dissuade you from adding anything else you feel is necessary. I would like as thorough a critique as you can give.

32 minutes ago, Mushroom Catalog said:

Fairly early, I think? I have a seamoth, part of the way to cyclops. No modification station yet, but a few fragments. I do have bioreactors that I can use away from sunlight. I have (I think) fully explored the 2 islands and creepy fortress place. I still need a compass though. I think I might go with Grassy Plateaus, I like those areas.

How do you tell when your base is dying? It has health, but the one room I built as a test didn't lose any despite being next to a LOT(?) of sand sharks. Is losing a base a serious concern?

Yeah, the grassy plateaus area I mentioned is pretty good for where you're at.

You can tell when your base is damaged because you'll see holes like on the reactors in the Aurora that you have to repair, and if it gets too bad, your base will flood. There are a number of things that can either weaken or strengthen the integrity of your base--things like windows, corridors, etc. lower the durability of your base--and that can mean anything from attacks (less likely) to pressure or environmental hazards (more likely). Things that strengthen your base, like reinforcements (can be placed on every corridor type), bulkheads (interior sealable doors) and foundations help keep damage to a minimum, though if, say, you have a reaper leviathan or something big in the area you might need to repair occasionally. Small creatures are less of a threat to your base than pressure.

Basically, the larger you make your base, the more likely to suffer damage it will be, so the more you have to bolster its durability.

As to where you're at, you still have the Jellyshroom Caves to explore from the sounds of it, and you'll have to start branching out to collect things like rubies, lithium, silver, and other types of scannables (like Cyclops pieces!). Each zone has something you'll need in the long run.

2 hours ago, Mushroom Catalog said:

And does anybody have a good base location recommendation?

Depends on what part of the game you're in...;)

Grand Reef is a good choice once you have augmenting sources of power that don't require sunlight. If you're still early, I like the southwestern Grassy Plateus area that borders the Dunes, the Sparse Reef, Safe Shallows, and a couple of Kelp forests. Nice safe area that you don't have to contend with any leviathans, but fairly easy to branch out from.

Below Zero looks amazing. I love the changes they've made to the format for Subnautica, augmenting the experience of those terrifying depths with new creatures and things to worry about (like weather). What's everyone's favorite creature? I'm partial to the Reaper Leviathan personally, but that's 'cause it scares the crap outta me...