The-only-game

2 hours ago, Subvisual Haze said:

He's the embodiment of the Rhythm of War, Honor and Passion united.

Would be awesome but too similar to Mistborn I think.

15 minutes ago, Dlyol said:

@Heir of the Void I think @NotBurtReynolds outlines my thinking on this pretty well - these people aren't robots, Radiants are damaged individuals caught in a perfect storm of moral and objective catastrophe. I'd just like to add a couple of points though for completeness sake. One Radiants are bound by Oaths that for some orders although not at all orders would mean they have to be horrified by this. Can you imagine Kaladin or Lift reacting to lobotomising the Singers in the way you outline? The second point is you get how ideological 'justifications' for slavery, if you can call them that without wretching, emerged in our world backwards. Societies didn't have pre-existing arguments for slavery and then gained slaves, they had slaves then sought to justify that to themselves. The 'positive good' argument for slavery emerged in the 1830s because slave owners had slaves and wanted to justify keeping them, they didn't acquire slaves because they believed the argument. As this applies to Roshar we have no idea whether there were slaves prior to the Recreance but we can be fairly confident that there wouldn't exist the requisite ideological framework to justify lobotomising and then enslaving vast numbers of Singers *because it had never happened before*

@The-only-game Do we know this? 

Ok I found the WoB, and it said Rafo. Sorry, I must have switched it in my head.

On 08/12/2017 at 8:29 AM, thejopen27 said:

This also makes sense with the event at Fevre Stone keep. We know from a Part 3 Epigraph that the Parsh were attacking Fevrestone Keep in the False Desolation and we know a ton of Windrunners and Stonewards gave up their shards all at once after that event. While the plan to bind BAM seems to have been developed at the time the tower is being abandoned and the recordings are being made.

Most likely time-line:

Honor is slowly becoming a force, less Tanavast, more Honor.

False Desolation comes, BAM leads the Regals and warforms against the humans, BAM is linked to and controlling all Parsh except the Last Legion

Last Legion escapes control by Unmade through Dullform

Tower is failing. can no longer support life with the sibling gone and there is infighting among the Radiants, especially the Skybreakers and the Windrunners, while the Willshapers chafe at the control. Only one Bondsmith is active (Melishi).

Melishi and the Truthwatchers form a plan to capture BAM, they think this will deny the Parsh the forms of power

For some reason the Parsh are trying to capture Fevrestone Keep near Iri.

The Radiants fight a large battle against the Parsh near Fevrestone Keep, meanwhile, Melishi and the Truthwatchers manage to bond Ba-Ado-Mishram

The binding of BAM steals the souls of all Parsh linked to BAM

The Radiants are horrified and many throw down their swords and break their oaths that day, the rest wither over time

The mass Oathbreaking, madness, and deaths of Spren weakens Honor enough that Odium finally kills him. 

The war seems to be still going on while the recordings are being made, therefore the tower was being abandoned during the false desolation not after, as one talks about the Parsh attacking at Fevrestone keep and others talk about creating the plan to trap Ba-Ado-Mishram. 

But wasn't Melishi bonded to the Sibling? Doesn't this throw the timeline into wack?

So are there any theories any ideas on what the 5th ideal bestows. By now it's pretty clear that the fourth ideal gives shardplate. The 5th ideal is the last and hence must be a very significant ideal.  So do we have any Wob or any theories on the 5th ideal?