Vortaan

I'm sorry but this is the point where I need to ask you to seriously ask if it's realistic to leave Kaladin in any kind of position of authority when he decided "The king threw me in jail so it's ok to have him assassinated." Because that is what literally happened, and just because you changed your mind doesn't mean that betraying the trust of people who put their LIVES in your hands is remotely ok. For all we know Kaladin STILL hasn't told Dalinar that Moash is an enemy and that might have huge repercussions now that Moash is effectively the new Assassin in White.

Kaladin commits dereliction of duty that resulted in the king of Alethkar suffering a possibly mortal wound... and is not thrown in jail, reprimanded, or punished in any way. How exactly did he suffer any kind of consequences for hiding the fact that one of the kings' guards was a possible assassin again?

I'm hesitantly on board with this but I'm not sure -why- that's a thing. Honor binds thing, but that's not limiting them. Honor being dead shouldn't change anything unless there was some kind of oath between all Radiants and Honor to limit their powers. Adding to weird things Radiants do, by the way, is Kaladin creating that windbreak against the storm that Syl didn't think was possible.

Kaladin screws up constantly and has yet to face any real consequences for it. He gets powerups to save the day in Wok and WoR, and while he fails to do so in OB, he gets saved by Dalinar, and then by Rock. Kaladin's flaws are there but put him in no real jeopardy, no matter how bleak his situation. I mean that's exactly the things that bother you about Adolin correct?

You must really hate Kaladin then.

So I'll break this down question by question... cause there are kind of a lot of question. Odium did not have a champion in past conflicts. That's a new development that Honor threw out there to try and bait Odium into a contest that would be more fair for humanity. The Unmade also do not go to Damnation in between Desolations. We have reports of them being active by the Radiants post-Last Desolation, and they are active in the current time, pre-Everstorm. Odium has to keep his deals. If Odium wins a Desolation, he presumbly shatters Cultivation and leaves Roshar, with the Singers in charge. I suspect that won't turn out how they expect. Odium has never had a champion before, the Unmade don't go to Braize, and the only Singers that would go to Damnation are the Fused. I'm not sure what the question is here. All we know for sure about Unmade is that they are Splinters of Odium. Beyond that, if they are Cognitive Shadows fused with a Splinter, corrupted spren, or what, we have no idea. For most intents and purposes, there's incredibly little difference between a spren and a Cognitive Shadow. Both are highly invested Cognitive entities. Spren have less freedom in their actions than Cognitive Shadows, but that's really the major difference from my point of view. It might be the Cognitive Realm of Braize, or Braize might be Damnation. No way of knowing yet. Ashyn might be Damnation as well, since the land is burning. Heralds are Cognitive Shadows with a Physical aspect. Their bodies might be solidified Investiture, much like people's bodies turn into in Shadesmar. Singers do not leave Roshar after Desolations... probably. Otherwise their presence in modern Roshar is unexplained. This is a true Desolation in current Roshar. There are Fused, Regals, and Odium's active. Singers do not leave Roshar, it's the Fused that are forced to leave after a Desolation ends. I have no real idea what devolved means in this context. BAM being imprisoned is almost certainly what caused the Singers to become the Parshmen. Previously when Fused were killed, they went back to Damnation, and then had to come back to Roshar. Now they just hang out in the Everstorm. Voidspren probably had to go back post-desolations with the Fused, since Regal forms showing up outside a Desolation was remarkable. And again: Singers do not leave Roshar after a Desolation.

So I have to disagree with this reading of Adolin. He's not Dalinar or Kaladin or Shallan, but those three are extreme examples of how people break. Adolin is the heir to a highprince and he's seen how Dalinar acts. I think Adolin has made a conscious effort throughout his life to not let loss bother him for long. I suspect that is extremely unhealthy in the long term, but it's how he deals with things. Adolin is far from perfect. He is impulsive and not nearly as tactically brilliant as Dalinar, and we see both of those flaws land him in situations where he almost gets himself killed in WoR and OB. He's also developing an inferiority complex about his lack of Radiant powers, which is a completely logical flaw for someone like him to have. Adolin also has a seemingly large distrust in his own abilities. It's there in WoK and WoR and is coming more to the foreground in OB. He holds himself to the idealized vision of Dalinar that Evi gave him, and finds himself always falling short of that perceived mark.

Meant more Ideals than powers. I'm not sure if their Ideals would have led them to be front line troops or special ops. They might actually be godzilla threshold, since Pattern says that the problem is getting them to stop breaking things.

Gratzi Graywatch

Stormfather directly says to Dalinar that he wasn't what he is now when Honor was still alive. Also when Dalinar summons Honor's perpendicularity, he tells the Stormfather that they are different. Dalinar, and Honor, and the Stormfather, something that did not exist the last time the Stormfather was bonded to a human. Since we're pretty sure Honor was alive during the Recreance, then the Stormfather can't have been a CS when Honor was still alive.

A: Show us any actual confirmed CS of a person that is still alive that isn't Honor, since the timeline there is extremely fuzzy. You're occam's razor is making a lot of assumptions, so please give a secondary source. B: It's stronger reasoning because there is no evidence at all that you can make a CS from something that still has a physical aspect. We have seen absolutely no evidence of it. C: The topic of the thread is about the Unmade, which someone suggested were CS of Rayse. Rayse can't make CS of himself, much less nine of them, which is how this whole conversation started.

I don't think you can split off CS from a living person. We haven't seen anyone do anything similar to that, and although the second letter implies the author is making Avatars of themselves, we have no idea what that entails. Are they separate entities or connected or... who knows.

If Gavilar's perfect gem was something he had made, how could BAM have gotten into it? I find it more likely she was trapped beforehand and the perfect gem Gavilar had made was A) not the sphere he gave to Szeth and B ) something he made to trap BAM again after he'd gotten the Heralds to come out of hiding.

Kalak also seems like the least confidant Herald we've interacted with so far. Taln is... Taln, Jezerin might have been broken but he still held himself like a king, Ash is a lot like her dad, and Ishar is apparently confidant enough to consider himself Honor's heir. Kalak is more unsure. He's also the Herald that founded the Willshapers and that scene is the collective breaking of the Herald's will.

It's likely given their Ideals that Windrunners and Stonewardens threw themselves into combat a lot. The Stonewarden record from those humming gemstones says something about looking to sacrifice himself and Windrunners are all about protection. I can see Skybreakers being involved a lot too, depending on what they swore to in their Ideals. If we're just going by what orders would have been most likely to be on the front lines, I can easily see those three from the orders we have examples of. I'm still not really sure what Dustbringers were about, and Edgedancers were probably more involved in helping the common people. Truthwatchers, Elsecallers, and Lightweavers seem to have been regarded as the more scholarly Radiants and while I'm certain some of them fought, maybe even a majority, they were probably like Jasnah, Renarin, and Shallan, fighting in specific missions where their skills would be useful. Spec ops instead of frontline fighters.

That's not what I said. I said they need scouts, and they are aware what Kaladin can do. It makes sense that they'd try to recruit the Order they know about that has immediately useful skills.

This might be why so much Plate is missing, actually. IT took some time for gems to be affixed to Shardblades didn't it? Any Plate that didn't have gemstones would have probably run out of power quickly and then just been a useless statue with maybe a person trapped in it

Valid point. But fifth heightening is 2000 of those. Pretty sure Susebron, nice as he is, wouldn't give that up. Maybe to Vasher, but Vasher doesn't seem to have much Breath at all

She also can't be Fifth Heightening. That's extremely noticeable even to people without any Breath. She's probably First or Second, if she hasn't gained any new Breath since the end of Warbreaker. She might be keeping Breath in her clothing to keep it from being noticeable, but Fifth Heightening is a lot of Breath and she had absolutely no resources at the end of Warbreaker to buy any more.

Also: Windrunners are the most tactically viable order of KR for their current needs. They need scouts and something to counter the flying Fused, so it makes sense that they are focusing their efforts on finding more Windrunners.

T's group opened the oathgate for the Singers, and the corrupted spren work for Odium. They aren't going to destroy his forces

Also: if Eshonai turned into a spren, how did she manage it? Fused are invested by Odium to pull off their trick. How would Eshonai have managed the same without intervention from Cultivation or Honor? If Timbre is Eshonai, then why does bonding with Venli not destroy Venli like the other Fused do to their hosts? There are many many problems with the idea that Eshonai is Timbre. I thought the same when the preview chapters were coming out but there is a lot of evidence in the book as to who Timbre actually is that disproves all of it.

Even if that's the case, the next cosmere book is Lost Metal. So getting any kind of appearance of Odium ruins the end of the front five of SA

What I'm saying is that these two series are running pretty close to each other in the timeline and seeing Odium or his influence on Scadrial ruins any tension for SA, especially since we have 6 more books that take place close enough together that Jasnah is a main character for book 8 or so.

I mean I doubt that would find purchase because it's the literal truth, Paalm knows it. Harmony took direct control over her, she had no choice, and then instead of suiciding she removed a spike and did her whole kill god plan. I really doubt we are going to see Odium's influence on Scadrial at this point since Lost Metal comes out before SA4.