cometaryorbit

Definitely, yeah. Starlight makes it clear there are some humans other than the Defiants, but we know hardly anything about them.

21 hours ago, Child of Hodor said:

That's a good point.  It asks Taravangian to take it up, so it clearly feels it needs a Vessel and the Vessel basically serves as the decision-making mind that directs it.  

I think it's more sapient and able to act on it's own than the other Shards we've encountered. Maybe like you say animal-level, a horse trying to buck Rayse off for all of RoW because it thinks he's a lousy rider.   

Yeah, that's how I see it. There's more there than most Shards, a mind is forming, but not sapience - yet. (If Taravangian hadn't been there it probably would have become sapient eventually, IMO.) As of RoW it's probably more like the non-sapient spren, with distinct behaviors and things it's attracted to (like painspren attracted to pain or gravity spren attracted to heavy objects), rather than the truespren like Syl or Pattern.

I don't think Odium could have even left Rayse on its own initiative.

The "Take me up!" part makes me visualize Odium as an abandoned puppy crawling into a new human's arms, lol.

I think "mind of its own" might be a bit of an overstatement - at least if by "mind" one means a sapient mind - but Odium-the-power as distinct from Rayse was definitely developing a will or at least desires of its own to some degree. It might be more like an animal-level mentality, emotion without reason or language ... perhaps something like the Thrill, Nergaoul's drive to fight... but there is something there.

The Dor 'wanting to be used' (attacks on Raoden) might also be similar? Or that could just be pressure buildup...

23 hours ago, Child of Hodor said:

Yeah I think that is the theme of his emotions, conflict and aggression. From what little we got of Taravangian's POV after ascending he has the logical side that wants to plan and the emotional side that is all "burn, kill".  Frost and Hoid consider the Shard to be Hatred and Harmony thinks all the destruction is what the Shard truly wants.

It's weird that a god of powerful emotions routinely takes them away from his followers.

I've seen it argued (and pretty much agree) that given Venli's observation that Odium-the-power wants conflict and disagreement even when Rayse wants to be obeyed without question, Odium is ultimately the Shard of Conflict the way Honor is of Oaths/Bonds.

I like that idea specifically because it helps distinguish Odium from Ruin... an urge to destroy is shared by Ruin, but Ruin would be happier unopposed, whereas what Odium really wants is the fight.

Yeah, the Void/taking away emotions vs the burning hate/fury dichotomy is weird. I do wonder if he can do that for emotion in general though... in both Moash's case, and his offer to Dalinar, it was guilt being removed. Maybe that's not against his Intent since being without guilt makes someone better at conflict? IDK.

But wasn't it Taravangian's raw/extreme emotion (on his low intelligence day) that let him Connect so well to the Shard?

I agree Rayse was trying to sell (even to himself) Odium as something it isn't (all emotion) - but I do think it's broader than hatred, from Dalinar and Venli's experiences and Taravangian taking it up. I think Odium represents aggressive/conflict-driving emotions, anger and hate and probably fear too, but not "gentle" emotions like love or humor or happiness or contentment.