Rich2244

I'm not so sure about cities, most skaa seem to live in fairly primitive shelters, wooden houses for the luckier ones, I can't see those surviving a highstorm, remember cities on Roshar are built with massive stormwalls blocking the direction the storms come from, then with mainly stone, often soulcast in a single piece. The castles of the noble houses might survive, depends whether the normal noble residences are torn apart and thrown against them or not. Highstorms throw boulders around and I can't imagine large houses or castles surviving too many of those.

I think someone else has said something similar but, if they both just met and fought, with both having no foreknowledge of the other, I feel like Vin would win, more versatile powers and being able to throw Ironman around like a puppet in his standard suit/ literally tear him apart. If they know each other's capabilities but don't have time to prepare I'd still back Vin, for mostly the same reasons, not really much Ironman can do at that point. If they have time to prepare as much as they want I feel like Ironman would design some sort of suit that would be resistant to allomancy and then win up close, short range energy blasts/ beat Vin down. If Vin has Atium or the Mists she wins.

I'm really goin out on a limb here, but just a theory I thought might be interesting. The parshendi bond spren to change form, so as long as they have bonded a spren, under the assumption that magic works on planets other than its origin as long as it has whatever is needed to fuel it, the different forms should work on other planets. Taking that one step further, I see no reason for stormform not to work on Scadrial. In which case would it be possible to summon an everstorm on Scadrial? I know highstorms are a magical weather pattern unique to Roshar but is there any reason one couldn't be formed on another planet? Assuming that is possible I'm pretty sure it's an instant win for Roshar, Scadrial doesn't have structures designed to last in a highstorm, I'm using highstorm as a general term with everstorm being a specific type if anyone wonders why I keep switching terms, the planet would be wiped clean wherever the storm passed. The only way to survive would be underground. This would also provide a source of stormlight negating the advantage of metals being easier to transport. Taking the location dispute a bit further surely Scadrial would lose on Roshar again because they have no way to survive outside in highstorms. I know this is kinda a long shot, just something I thought of, anyone know any reason it wouldn't work?

The guards cannot be aluminium, IF they were and aluminium did stop shardblades aluminium armour and shields would be common, soulcasting isn't something that really has a quantity limit if you are not concerned about using a soulcaster and gems. None of the high princes bodyguard have aluminium armour or shields, they would clearly have the resources needed to get them. Saying that I also wouldn't be surprised if shardplate turned out to be partially composed of aluminium-ceramic alloys.

So you mean the bit where one of the characters set to get his own book beats up several unnamed schmucks? With an Honourblade? Normal light eyes are described as often wearing normal plate, they die quite a lot, a spear would hardly be the worst weapon for dealing with plate, it might not be the best but it is far from the worst.

How poorly it fairs? Until Kaladin killed the shardbearer at the start of way of kings it was almost a myth that it was even possible after that the majority of the time it is only tested against things that should just instantly kill the wearer, apart from the one instance mentioned which is leaning slightly towards it being weaker than I suggest but definitely not conclusive.

I'm not sure how to quote a quote so I'm just gonna reply normally, my point about the Koloss' strength wasn't to do with hemalurgic decay, it was more suggesting that part of the strength infused in the spike was used to mutate the subject rather than provide the passive strength gain Again to the part about the different shards, all in saying is that the original thread was about Roshar vs Scadrial, Odium is currently of Roshar, world politics don't matter, it's a theoretical question I wasn't comparing numbers when comparing the thugs to Koloss just debating the merits of each, in a 1 on 1 or even 5 to 10 on 1 I think a thug would win, past that Koloss would likely overwhelm them. Fair points on the second set of comments as I mentioned I haven't read eleventh metal was just theorising there, and I missed the second mistborn for some reason, might be time for a reread!

A shardhammer is different because it is wielded by someone in shardplate. The composite bows used by parshendi seem very powerful to me, a modern composite bow can punch through steel plate, I'm not surprised that it would widen a crack with a perfect hit.

I haven't read eleventh metal, but even if they did it is also said that most mistborn are unknown, if nobles are dying but no one knows they are mistborn apart from their own family why would there be panic. The main houses are also said to have the most pure bloodlines, so most mistborn are likely to be in those families, with one occasionally cropping up in a minor house. Lastly where is it mentioned that each great house has at least 2-3 as far as I know the only one that was confirmed in the books is that Elariel was doomed when Shan was killed and Cett only had the one that was sent to assassinate Vin/Elend when Vin used her last atium. That's two main houses that had only one.

Thanks for the clarification on the gold healing,My point for the two shards against three or one against two was based on the question being Roshar vs Scadrial, that makes no bias on allegiances on planet. Possibly specifying 'good' forces on either planet or something else would be a better clarification, my point was just that Odium is as Rosharan as Ruin is Scadrialian so in a planet war he should be involved. Also Honour has been splintered so is that a full shard? I don't have the book to hand to reference but is that scene not also midway through a battle, we have no idea what happened before the blows you mentioned. In terms of Koloss I am unsure how multiple spikes of the same attribute stack up, is it literally fives times the strength because of five spikes or is there diminishing returns after the first spike, also Koloss aren't human, they have been altered is that a side affect or is it what part of the spikes energy is used for? My reasoning for pewter outdoing Koloss is that the additional strength isn't needed, the speed and balance pewter gives however is in my mind much more of a physical enhancement, especially when Koloss aren't exactly armoured so the extra strength isn't needed. It's like saying a master swordsman would beat worlds strongest man in a duel.

Also if Scadrial are using Koloss and Steel Inquisitors then Roshar should have the forces of Odium, you can't have all of one planet against the good side on another, it has to be either Preservation vs Honor/Cultivation or Preservation/Ruin vs Honour/Cultivation/Odium

Apologies I meant by a single person, not a group over the course of a battle, I will edit

I really think everyone here is underestimating shardplate, there are WoB that state pewter gives roughly double your normal strength, triple if flared, with enhanced speed/ reflexes/ balance to compensate so your not ridiculously clumsy. Shardplate is never cracked in the books by a non radiant without shardplate without a significant number of blows over sustained periods of time. Drained shardplate is cracked by a chasmfiend, a Koloss is not as strong as a chasmfiend, not even close, Koloss would be similar to thugs, potentially dangerous but hilariously outclassed. Shardplate users seem to be able to do far more than what several times a normal human strength could do, the books describe it as the strength of many men, in my mind many is at least 6-8 probably more like 10-12. With that in mind 100 shardbearers working as a unit rather than alone is a terrifying prospect, realistically mistings wouldn't even be a threat, mistborn would beat a shardbearer one on one with atium but two or three on one I doubt it. Also I'm not sure where people are getting the idea that there are hundreds of mistborn all over the place, the main houses seem to have 1-3, then there are a few others scattered about, maybe 40-50 in the entire empire, not including the 16 inquisitors and TLR. Straff Venture had as many children as possible to get as many mistborn as he could and ended up with 1 confirmed and I would assume 1-2 that died trying to assassinate Elend. Another interesting thing people don't seem to have touched on yet is how a shardblade would affect TLR. Would he be able to heal a shardblade wound with gold compounding? I'm of the opinion he wouldn't as gold just stores health that you already have, it doesn't give the body the ability to heal spiritual wounds. Though I may be wrong about that, any thoughts? I agree that Scadrial would have an advantage but I don't think it's anywhere near as one sided as people are suggesting.

Vin was able to control Koloss with duralumin, they only had 4 spikes, if marsh wasn't using copper it would have been trivial for her to control him, by book 3 he had over 20 spikes. The copper would just offset that amount to be more like 1-2

Apologies for the long wait, haven't checked this thread for a while I can't find the exact quote but it was from the Philidelphia signing, something like burning pewter doubled your normal strength, flaring was more like tripled, I extrapolated from that that plate gives a much larger benefit, there is a scene in WoK where dalinars hammer is described, two men, who are labourers so used to carrying weight, struggle to move it, in plate dalinar easily picks it up one handed, that's at lead quadruple probably a lot more. Even people without plate can use a shardblade one handed, for a 6-8 foot long blade that is light, I couldn't use a wooden sword that size one handed more than flail it around a bit, I assume you are saying its heavy from when Moash first lifts one, he describes it as heavy as he was expecting it to be weightless, I would guess that they weigh similar to a medieval hand and a half sword, around 1.5-2kg.

I'm fairly sure the only shardbearers described as slow were inexperienced ones, shardblades have very little weight in relation to their size, with enhanced strength from plate an experienced user would be much faster than normal. They are described as long sweeping blows, that doesn't mean they are slow. Shardblades are pictured around 6-8feet, to stay outside of that reach and then dart inside and stab them in the face with a dagger is far from an easy thing to do, Kaladin did it to someone with little to no training with a blade using his latent storm light enhancement. Against an adept like Dalinar or Adolin who wouldn't leave the opening I think it would literally be writers discretion, he could have it end either way and be believable. Against Kaladin I just don't think Allomancers can stand up to surgebinders, lashings seem far more powerful than iron or steel, the only limit being how much storm light you have. Atium can't save you if your pinned to a wall.

You have to assume that any mistborn has maybe a minute of atium to burn, it is far too valuable and scarce to allow more than that. Also Atium only allows you to escape if there is a possibility you could, if there is no way to escape death, which when fighting a shardbearer especially a radiant is a distinct possibility then you are still dead. Also Brendon has said Roshar is his baby more so than any series he has done so far, simply taking that into account he would make Rosharians the most latently powerful, it's human nature to make your favourite more OP. Furthermore WoB have stated that shardplate gives substantially more benefit then flaring pewter, couple this with a shardblade being more dangerous then any weapon I know a mistborn to possess and its defensive benefits we have a very clear winner, Atium would probably allow many mistborn to survive for a minute or so but win, I doubt it.

If we were to simply think of how mistborn (not just mistings) are regarded compared to shardbearers, they aren't even comparable, nobles assume that a mistborn is killed by archers getting lucky and aren't surprised, when Kaladin kills the shardbearer in WoK its described as being the first time in a century, people are literally horrified that it could happen. Shardbearers aren't even in the same league as Allomancers, there is also a WoB that an experienced pewter user flaring is several times as strong as a normal man, that doesn't even come close to what shardbearers can do.

I think it is difficult to compare shardblades to maces or hammers as they are different weapons that work differently, if we were comparing a shardblade to a traditional greatsword I think it absolutely would be more effective, they seem to do similar amounts of damage to a shardbearers hammer, a weapon designed to allow those with the plate but not the blade to fight others in the plate.

So would a general consensus be that a spren formed shardhammer would be the best weapon for shattering shardplate? If that is true then surely we have decided that shardblades do get a bonus otherwise a shardhammer would be no more effective than a shardbearers hammer.

True and again we haven't really seen what Kaladin would be capable of with shardplate, but from the descriptions it seems like normal blows from szeth are extremely effective, even when he isn't surgebinding. Kaladin breaks both of his legs when he shattered the chest plate and when he used the helmet as a gauntlet its shardplate against shardplate, one of them will inevitably break. This is just a theory but I find it very difficult to believe that shardblades would be similar in effectiveness to a shardbearers hammer without some sort of bonus at the end of the day it's a light greatsword which isn't something designed to damage plate, like a hammer is

I got the impression from the books that when a shardblade is blocked by anything the force of the blow is hugely magnified, possibly because it is not the physical blow that is actually being stopped, but the 'soul severing' aspect of it, sorry if that is not the correct terminology, only read through once. If a shardblade acted like a simple greatsword against plate it would take forever to shatter, when szeth first fights shardbearers Spoilers Admittedly he is using an honour blade not a traditional shardblade he is able to shatter their plate with relative ease even without plate of his own. He also breaks halfshards with just one unassisted blow, we don't have any regular shardbearers fighting against halfshards to compare that to yet but either they are pretty pathetic shields or the blades impact is magnified somehow.