Melriken

On 12/4/2017 at 8:57 PM, aemetha said:

It is very difficult apparently @fievelgoespostal but not impossible.

I could see Adolin dying (or perhaps I want him to die a little bit *shrug*). It would fit the whole love triangle thing as foreshadowing. Adolin dies, Shallan gets bitter and twisted and falls to the dark side and starts wearing a mask to manage her asthma and Kaladin redeems her. Just guessing on that though.

Oh, I can answer this one. I got an advance copy of book 10 (though I was sleeping at the time and when I woke up I couldn't find it again). Anyway, please refer to my signature.

Not sure if the board doesn't have signatures and that's the joke or if it is just mobile that doesn't have signatures and the joke is 'it all ends in fire' or something... isn't there a WoB that says we already know the ending of SA 10?

The Alethi church excommunicated Dalanar... that relationship needs to be explored.  The joining of the nations, the joining of the Knights Radiant, the joining of the heralds, the true meaning of 'unite them' (the shards of honor? The spren? Humanity? The spren and humans? I am sure it means more then he currently suspects.

Gotta side with the people saying Hoid wants to help but doesn't want to die.

 

When you are fighting against someone that can literally see (probablistically) the future you stay clear of them and where they might pay attention.  And you don't just personally stay clear, you keep your direct influence clear too... last thing you want is Odium noticing dalanar reading '10 things you should know about defeating Odium'... also Hoid's power level is such that Dalanar can't really help him, so Hoid doesn't stand to gain much by helping Dalanar, and loses a lot if he gets caught.  And at his age... Dalanar will be long dead within a short plan Hoid is working on on the side.

I always assumed that Dalinar wished for the nightwatcher to 'take away the pain of losing Evi' and that the loss of memory was how this worked.  Now that he is married again the thought of Evi isn't painful and his memories are returning.  But some of those memories harbor pain and haven't returned and likely getting a bunch at once would pain him because he would wonder if marrying again is a betrayal, so he just gets the ones that don't cause that and the list grows as he absorbs those memories back into his psyche.

 

It always bothered me that he was sure what his Boone and curse were because we have only ever seen the lost memories, so what was the other?

As an aside she can't have wished for youth and had dalinar's memories be wiped... Dalinar's memories could only be the Boone not the curse if it was Evi's wish. (Otherwise everyone would have forgotten her not just Dalinar...)

7 minutes ago, Calderis said:

4500 Rosharan years is 4950 of ours, and would be the same for Scadrial, as it is essentially an earth analog. 

Yes... Roshar is longer... so fewer of them... so multiply Roshar to get earth... obviously...  (aka: I'm an idiot)

Scadrial during the final empire had a shorter year than it did before or after TLR (both of which should be roughly earth as you commented) and the 1,000 year figure was during The Final Empire... so less than 1,000 years.

the correct conversion shows that the timeline starts with the preprolog of WoK, not the shattering, so the 10,000 year figure Brandon listed does not limit when Ruin and Odium were bound.

Roshar has 10 months of 10 weeks of 5 days, 500 days per year, though each day is shorter than earth's so it's year comes in at 1.1 earth standard. (About 19.25 hours per day) so 4,500 Roshar years is 4091 earth years. 

Coppermind doesn't have data on Scadrial's year.

9 desolations doesn't really jive with the end of WoK, for that speech to be rote memory he would have needed to have given it more than 9 times.

I think he probably fixated on it in damnation, however it needed to be a memorized and non-shifting speech before the last desolation for that.  Even assuming he gives it several times each desolation because he talks to multiple people groups I would expect a fair bit more than 9 desolations.

That all said the more I think on it them more I think 1000 years between is a max figure, not a min figure.  A few hundred at least, a thousand at most seems right.  So 500 x 9 gives 4500 years, or 9k total between the first desolation and modern roshar (actually 8,500 because the first desolation doesn't get the 500 years).  1000 x 20 gives 23,500 as a 'max' figure. Either estimate puts Odium's binding before Ruin's.

As for Brandon's statement of a 10,000 year timeline with Roshar right in the middle... that puts the start as 5,000 years before the primary events of way of kings, 4,500 of those are after the final desolation, so... 500 years for the other desolations, the splintering of several shards by Odium, and the events leading up to the shattering of Adonalsium... that doesn't seem to fit... but wait, isn't a Roshar year about half of an earth year? (Edit: no, no it isn't... 1.1) Isn't a Scadrial year shorter after TLR moved the planet then it was before (and again after Harmony moved it back)?

What is the conversion between 4,500 Roshar years and 1,000 Final Empire years? What about Earth years (the likely figure Brandon is using)?

22 hours ago, Calderis said:

@Lord Maelstrom which came first is debatable. 

I'll search, but we know that the well filled previously to TLR's use of (I think twice, but not sure) so assuming that the well took the initial millennium to fill your looking at 4000 years prior to Mistborn for Ruin to be trapped minimum. 

The last Desolation was 4500 years before tWoK. And Odium was already well and truly trapped at that point. 

Without more information, on how many times the Well filled, or the number and time between desolations... I don't think we can actually answer that question. 

Well vorinism teaches that there were 100 desolations, and we know that the Heralds taught the people metallurgy each time, sometimes basic, sometimes advanced based on what they had, and that each time the prior desolation was more myth than history.  So I think it reasonable to say a minimum time between desolations would be 1000 years.  It is also implied fairly heavily that the last desolation was much longer ago than the typical time between desolations... so at most 2000 years?

100,000 years as a minimum figure seems to put Odium's binding well before the oldest estimates of Ruins binding... so if one inspired the other I would say Odium's inspired Ruin's.  But we are talking about SHARDS here... they can see the future so even with definitive timelines we would still just be guessing which influenced which.

There is a WoB that a knight radiant could bond multiple spren though it would be very difficult to keep all the oaths balanced without breaking one and "killing" the spren. And that is just with two spren, nonetheless ten. The other option is a knight radiant could theoretically grab and bond the other 9 honorblades and thereby have access to all the surges. But the likelihood of us ever actually seeing that happening is very doubtful (watch that ends up happening just to spite me lol).

a KR with 4 blades can do all 10 surges... Similarly only 5 oaths are required to have them all natively.

If you're dead, there is no point in torturing you - and Kalak mentions feeling the tortures, so he must had been alive during it.

Unless Braize is a hell analog, then maybe they count as dead while there and that is why they don't die to all the torture...

Can I ask my question again, since it never got answered? If a Soulcaster (either fabrial or Surgebinder) were to Soulcast something into ice (normal frozen water), would they use a garnet for blood and non-oil liquids, or diamond for crystals?

Can a soulcaster change stone to ice? We see Jasna change someone to fire, but I am not convinced that soulcasters can change the temperature of what they are changing.

If they can change it then they wohave of use a diamond. Many of the gems are actually the same thing in a slightly different configuration or some other chemically insignificant difference (how they hardened/crystallized) yet soulbinding cares what they LOOK like more then what they ARE. So it wouldn't care that ice is water, it doesn't look like it, it looks like a crystal so it is treated like a crystal.

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=979#97

So, I went back to the original, and decided that color was enough to differentiate them. Just as steel and iron are very similar in the Mistborn world, emerald and heliodor can be very similar—but produce different effects. The idea here is that the physical items (like the metals or the crystals) provide a key by which magical interaction occurs.

I look forward to reading that Feruchemy theory. I personally don't see how being "in the form of Investiture" would not be Investiture, so I'm excited to see how you'll explain that.

My understanding is that Feruchemical storage is just a matter of turning an attribute (Health, Luck, etc.) into magical energy (a.k.a. Investiture) with a specific "flavor", and Investing that energy into metal. This is possible because as Sazed implied in HoA, Realmatic objects and energy are equivalent (just like mass and energy are equivalent IRL).

To bring my L-Theory into this, Duralumin Feruchemical storage (for example) is like taking Connection strings from one's Spiritual aspect, looping them into L bosons that are attuned to their original form, and then emitting those L bosons towards a metal target. A nicrosilmind should be able to store those L bosons even though they are attuned to Connection simply because they are still quanta of Investiture.

So what you are saying is that a character who can burn gold and store in Nicro wouldn't be able to store health in a Nicromind because he can't make L-bosons with a Health charge (aka can't store in a Goldmind) but a full Ferochemist could store anything in a Nicromind?

Because it stores Investiture. Nor weight nor health nor speed is Investiture. Sure, the charge may be in the form of the Investiture, but that's not what you stored and not what you will get back. So the only case when you store and tap Investiture is nicrosil.

Soon I will post a theory about Feruchemy, maybe I will be able to better explain my view.

If I understand your stance it is that the energy reserve in a Goldmind is Investiture but when you tap a gold mind you don't get investiture out, rather you get out raw health. So you can't store that health in a Nicromind.

So then couldn't you take a Goldmind and move that investiture over to a Nicromind without taping the Goldmind? You would need to move it back to a Goldmind before you could tap it for healing. Additionally since the twin who could burn gold couldn't store in a gold mind and the nicro burning twin couldn't store in a Nicromind they couldn't actually compound. Unless storing in a Goldmind while tapping from a Nicromind would let you store health without getting sick, then you could compound.

Given that a Tinmind that stored sight can't be tapped for hearing I have to think that a Nicromind that is storing 'Goldmind' can't be tapped for anything but filling a Goldmind, but that should let it be burned to quickfill a Goldmind, and that would allow compounding. You can only compound on the 'burn nicro and fill Goldmind' side, burning a Goldmind would create health, not investiture with a health flavor so the other side is 'move Goldmind investiture into a Nicromind' not using Allomancy at all.

I still think that my idea about twins with opposite allomantic and feruchemical powers could work. The reciprocal relationship of their powers could be a part of their spiritual identity.

Those sound like very interesting characters.... Which two metals would be most interesting? Gold/pewter? Iron/Steel would be funny... One character could fly and reduce weight and move SUPER FAST when burning his twin's metal mind. The other could pull on metal, store speed and weigh a TON when burning his twin's metal mind. The first one there gets a much better deal.

Skai: dude

Aona: grill

Sounds like a BBQ! (Sorry, bad joke)

I am in the 'they come from the same root language and it isn't the 'normal' one everyone is speaking so they sound similar but have nothing in common really camp.

...IDK (Regress? Things stay unchanged, but it's bad)

The word you are looking for is Stagnation.

Unless he's alive still, much much later, because he was changed into a Kandra by Sazed. Something has to have happened to give Demoux long life and this could be it. He could now be DeMoux.

Possible if Sazed turned him into a Kandra, but it doesn't seem right to me.

This may have been debated in here already, but have we considered Demoux? He's a known worldhopper from Scadrial, and why wouldn't a kandra be part of the 17th shard?

IIRC Demoux was intended to die but as part of a personal deal with a friend Brandon made him live and get the girl... Killing him and replacing him with a Kandra would defeat the (likely) spirit of that change.

You mean: does she prefer disgusting slime or crab-thing with 17 legs?

I mean does she like feminine food and it's soft flavors or does she long for the stronger tastes of masculine food? Does she like Susi? Or does she prefer her meat well done?

I would like to put forward the name of... Ialai Sadeas...

Married to a highprince, spymaster in her own right...

Have we heard of her being sick and almost dying in the past (actually dying and being replaced by a Kandra)? Going missing for a while?

I don't think we have ever had a PoV from her. Have we seen her eat? (Probably, but that isn't a deal breaker, just her taste in food would be interesting)

It seems that Roshar has two seasons, Highstorm season and the Weeping. The question shouldn't be 'What causes seasons on Roshar', but rather, 'What causes the Weeping?' Seriously, what causes the Weeping? I have a hunch that it's somehow related to the moons and Roshar's proximity to its star.

it can't be related to the moons, they are in a very strange orbit with a period of slightly less then one day (such that they orbit the planet N-1 times per year where N is the number of days in a year (there are 500 days between weepings, a year (as in an orbit of the sun) may infact be a different period), and in the direction opposite planetary rotation. Earth's moon rotates in the same direction as planetary rotation, as do most of our artificial satalites (it takes much more energy to get into a retrograde orbit)) so they wouldn't cause any disturbance on anything but a daily (tides for example) basis.

Isn't the storm father an Honor-Spren (representation of the person (shard) known as Honor, not the idea of honor (which syl is a Spren of)), similarly the Nightwatcher is a Cultivation-Spren.

I doubt even Dalinar creates enough of a reflection to make a Spren, human-Spren should exist though. And the Heralds... Yeah I could see it. Unless Honorspren (like Syl, not the stormfather) are Herald Spren... Or indistinguishable from...

The Stormfather maybe? Is just a guess but its the best I got! Good question though! Kings to you!!!

how would the storm wardens predict it in this case?

I think I saw somewhere that since there's really no axial tilt, the seasons are caused by highstorms upsetting weather patterns or something.

wouldnt that make winter the post HS weather and it shift to summer if there isn't another HS soon enough or something like that? But that isn't the case weather patterns shift between HS and hold through HS in all kinds.

I double posted because there was no edit button, likely because I am using the mobile version of the site.

Also the stars would be the same year round but which portion you see at any given time of the day would shift (noon's sky would be midnight's sky half a solar orbit later) but the natives may not have realized this as solar orbits don't matter much to them.

Edit: found the edit button on the mobile site, it is hidden.

Storm wardens predict the seasons, so they are caused by something(s) cyclical (not the mood of the Spren or something arbitrary like that).

Roshar's rotational axis is orthogonal to it's orbit, so seasons are NOT caused by solar orbit as they are on earth.

Roshar's moons rise and set at the same time each day so seasons are not caused by Lunar orbit(s).

No mention of other planets in extremely close orbit so nothing like that causes the seasons.

What the causes the Seasons?