phoenix2563

On 7/11/2022 at 4:48 PM, bmcclure7 said:

We were already introduced to the name of the survival shard in secret project 3

You assume that is the Survival shard, the one named in SP #3.  Many, including myself, think it is not, and the Survival shard is the last to be revealed.  The intent of that named shard has almost nothing to do with survival, wisdom, prudence, etc. IMO.

Thanks!  I put quite a bit of thought into that table!

I see strengthen as different to change.  Change is more along the lines of transforming from what things are to something else.  "Strengthen" doesn't change anything but enhances it.  Actually, maybe "Enhance" is a better dawnshard name, now that I think of it?

Of course, if one assumes that "Unite" is a dawnshard, as some have theorized, then my table doesn't work that well   Devotion and Dominion could still work in a "Unite" column, but then Valor or Ambition don't work very well there.

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

Additionally Harmony couldn't contact Invention after their first conversation, almost as if they don't want to be found.

I hear what you are saying, but Brandon is known for misdirecting us, which is what he could be doing with that letter.  There could be an entirely different reason Invention is not responding.  Also, I always envisioned the shard with the primariy intelligence intent (ie invention) to be behind what is going on at Silverlight.  And that just doesn't fit for me with wanting to "just survive" at any point.  Silverlight and the 17th shard have been very active in the Cosmere.

Also here is a table I came up with.  Sorry if I am copying anyone's ideas, it was not intentional if so.

But how does invention lead to a desire to survive?  Invention is to me, more of a creation type shard intertwined with intelligence.  Pragmatism is more of a stability type shard with intelligence.  I would see invention trying to create unique devices to avoid destruction by Odium at the beginning of things.  I am just having a hard time seeing invention withdrawing and just trying to survive.  There is nothing creative in that.

Also,  Pragmatism is a really nice counter to Whimsy, just sayin'.

I am posting this here as my theorizing mainly comes from Brandon's Q&A about Secret project #1:

_________________________________

Kellyn

The chat is very much reading into your use of "whimsy."

Brandon Sanderson

I know. They should, instead, read into something earlier I said in the stream.

Secret Project #1 Reveal and Livestream (March 8, 2022)

_________________________

So I re-watched the stream, and something popped out at me, as the word "pragmatc" was used multiple times.  In addition, the way this world is structured has a very pragmatic feel to it.  Each of the 12 moons is positioned over a different area of the planet (each with a different "proto-aether"), the moons being directly over what is likely the 12 habitable areas on the world.  The rules, at least in this realm, seem focused on keeping things working (ie very pragmatic) rather than keeping people "happy".

So I'm thinking a shard named Pragmatism is or once had influence over this system, is associated with the number 12, and is responsible for the aethers being slightly different on this world vs. the aether homeworld.  Pragmatism also fits in very well with what we know of the survival shard .  It is also in line with those who have guessed "wisdom" as a shard, of which Pragmatism is close.  To survive can be a pragmatic choice, but recall Brandon also said recently that the Survival has come to recognize that surviving may no longer be the best option.

_________________________

Paleo

In May, in Germany, you told me that... or I asked whether Wisdom was a Shard, and you said it was or something like it, and that wisdom was close to an intent of a Shard, and you also told me that it has realized that survival isn't necessarily the most important thing for it. I wanted to ask whether it has realized that over time or was it from the get go?

Brandon Sanderson

Over time.

Paleo

Okay, so then naturally, my next question: Is it the survival Shard?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO.

Paleo

And then somebody actually came up with another good probable name. Is Prudence close?

Brandon Sanderson

Prudence sounds an awful lot like a Shard name. That's some excellent theorizing there.

Prague Signing (Oct. 26, 2019)

__________________________

What do you guys think?  Could Pragmatism be our final shard?  Unless, of course, some group has gone out and created a new one (see: Secret History)

What about "Strive" for the fourth dawnshard?  This also fits both Odium and Ambition, and also opens the door for a shard such as "ingenuity".  To me, this grouping fits the cognitive quadrant well.

So my four are Survive (physical), Change (temporal), Unite (spiritual) and Strive (cognitive).

@Ixthos  One could also argue that Vengeance is a possible combination of Justice and Odium (passion).  There are many different lenses one could view these things with.  Also, Justice is not always honorable.  What about vigilante justice?  This may or may not be vengeance-related, if you live in a country where the courts do not work for the people.

As for Scholarship vs. Ingenuity, I see scholarship as gaining external information, as you say (or external pulling, as some would categorize it; I'm thinking here of researching, university types, aka Khriss), where the ultimate goal is truth.  Ingenuity I see more from an "invention / creation" point of view, more in line with your "crafting" as a shard idea (internal pulling, as the ideas come from within).  The difference would be, Ingenuity is more Cognitive based, where Crafting is more Physical.

2 hours ago, Tglassy said:

Honor is about keeping oaths, but Justice is about getting what is deserved.  These are two different things.  For a good person, justice is getting something good.  For a bad person, Justice is getting something bad.  Oaths and bindings have nothing to do with it, nor does passion.  It seems to be its own thing.

Completely agree with this.  If Justice is indeed a shard, it would make sense that Rayse would have gone after it early, possibly #2 on his hit list right after Ambition, before heading to Sel.  

Perhaps Justice even witnessed Odium's splintering of Ambition and in turn confronted Rayse, which would be in line with the shard's intent?

I posted this in another thread by @Ixthos, but wanted to post here to see what you guys thought also.

I think it makes sense, that if "Unity" is simply Dalinar's interpretation of "Honor", that the orders would at least be loosely based on the 16 shards of Adonalsium, which may in turn help us identify the remaining shards.  Let me know your thoughts!

• Windrunners = Protecting, Leadership = Preservation

• Skybreakers = Just, Confidence    Justice / Ego  (Though I think Vengeance would be a possibility if you combined "Justice" and "Odium".  I also think that Ego serves a nice counterbalance to "Humility" below)

• Dustbringers = Brave, Obedient = Dominion  

• Edgedancers = Loving, Healing = Devotion / Cultivation

• Truthwatchers = Learned, Giving = Scholarship / Endowment (with Scholarship perhaps associated with Silverlight?)

• Lightweavers = Creative, Honest = Ingenuity

• Elsecallers = Wise, Careful = Prudence (a variant of wisdom that also fits with this being the survival shard)

• Willshapers = Resolute, Builder = Ambition

• Stonewards = Dependable, Resourceful = Autonomy

• Bondsmiths = Pious, Guiding = Humility / Honor

I couldn't really find a place for either Ruin or Odium, but those two may be so at odds with Honor that perhaps they were left out.

What do you guys think?  This would have the 6 remaining shards be (or some variant of) Justice, Ego, Scholarship, Ingenuity, Prudence and Humility

So, I like your idea of grouping shardic intents with the Radiant orders.  I think it makes sense, that if "Unity" is simply Dalinar's interpretation of "Honor", that the orders would at least be loosely based on the 16 shards of Adonalsium.  However, I have a slight variant on this based on my own ideas for the remaining shards, let me know your thoughts!

• Windrunners = Protecting, Leadership = Preservation

• Skybreakers = Just, Confidence    Justice / Ego  (Though I think Vengeance would be a possibility if you combined "Justice" and "Odium".  I also think that Ego serves a nice counterbalance to "Humility" below)

• Dustbringers = Brave, Obedient = Dominion  

• Edgedancers = Loving, Healing = Devotion / Cultivation

• Truthwatchers = Learned, Giving = Scholarship / Endowment (with Scholarship perhaps associated with Silverlight?)

• Lightweavers = Creative, Honest = Ingenuity

• Elsecallers = Wise, Careful = Prudence (a variant of wisdom that also fits with this being the survival shard)

• Willshapers = Resolute, Builder = Ambition

• Stonewards = Dependable, Resourceful = Autonomy

• Bondsmiths = Pious, Guiding = Humility / Honor

I couldn't really find a place for either Ruin or Odium, but those two may be so at odds with Honor that perhaps they were left out.

What do you guys think?  This would have the 6 remaining shards be (or some variant of) Justice, Ego, Scholarship, Ingenuity, Prudence and Humility

Here's mine:

Borio Singaldi and the Prospect of Death

Quote

Borio Singaldi saw white all around him. Everything seemed so bright. As his vision slowly adjusted, he saw a majestic, robed figure standing in front of him. The figured gestured to him, saying “Come!” Borio follows in anticipation, but is also slightly confused. Good heavens, have I perished? Borio thought? Is this truly the heavenly realm I have passed on to? Borio rubbed at his mustache, which began twisting in delight as he followed his guide. His step was so light, he didn't even need to use his cane anymore, and threw it to the side. They approached another man, also garbed in white, who was standing in front of a great pedestal which contained a curiously large white book. The man had a kindly look on his face, and smiled as he greeted Borio “Welcome, sir, please take a seat while I find your name in this book. What did you say your name was?”

“Borio. Borio Singaldi, of the prestigious Singaldi Mercantile Company, of course!.”

“Very good sir,” the man replied. “Please, have a seat.” Borio sat down in a plush chair that appeared to use down feathers in the cushion. Ah, perfect, Borio thought to himself. Apparently death was not so bad as he had thought it would be. After a wait which felt like an eternity, but which Borio surprisingly did not seem to mind at all, The kindly man came over to him. “Sir, can you please provide us with the exact spelling of your last name?”

“But of course. It's Singaldi. S-I-N-G-A-L-D-I.”

“Oh dear", the man replied. "It seems as if there has been an error. We do have a Borio Sangaldi on our list, but unfortunately you, Borio Singaldi, are on another list entirely. It seems that your record includes quite a few too many unexplained deaths. We simply can't let you in. I'm afraid we are going to have to ask you to go through the exit over that way.” The man's hand gestured to an opening.

Borio's mustache begins to droop in sadness. He limped over to his cane, swept it off the ground, and made his way over to the opening. After the archway, the opening ended in a metal slide that curved and twisted down into nothingness. There weren't even guardrails! Borio huffed as he thought to himself.

After what truly did feel like an eternity, Borio finally made it to the bottom, which opened into an enormous cavern. He heard shrieks and wails coming from everywhere. Flames gushed from gaps in the cavern walls, searing his skin. He could hear the rattle of chains and what sounded like cages. The floor was spotted with small pools of lava, each billowing smoke into the air, but he did not, and could not suffocate. A bony figure with a long scythe slowly approached him, saying. “Finally, you are MINE!”

“Really? Borio replied. How much did you pay? I really hope you didn't underpay. My family is worth fortunes! And I expect proper treatment during my stay here. I would like a penthouse suite, with king size beds, and room service, of course...”

“What? The figure stands in front of Borio, dumbfounded. Do you realize where you are? We don't accommodate those types of requests here, you fool.”

Borio shuddered... “But how... do you even survive...No, this can't be!”

Twisting and turning in his bed, Borio yelled “No!” just as he was startled awake by the sunlight streaming in through the garish curtains across the room from his bed. His silk sheets were in full disarray, but the realization dawned on him, that this was all a dream.

This day, Borio decided that he, in fact, did not want to die. He simply could not bear the prospect of death, where there was a chance that he could end up having to survive in a place that did not offer room service.

Borio Singaldi and the Perspective of Death

Quote

Death seethed to himself. He desired, no, he coveted the soul of Borio Singaldi. But he simply could not get the fool to definitively doom himself! If only he could set up a proper trap! Death wanted nothing more than to burn off the silly man's mustache, and turn the man's cane into a snake...but oh why did the man's soul elude him so!!

Oh, but wait! His frail, old mother was sick. Yes! This was the perfect opportunity!

Death appeared to Borio Singaldi. “Hello old friend. Had any nightmares lately, by chance, in your sleep perhaps, or waking even? I dohope they have been comforting.”

Borio turned around in his plush chair, and appeared startled. “Tomatopatch! Is that you? I thought I just sent you to get me a pastrami sandwich! Lunch has been over an hour ago, after all.” Borio turned around to see Death staring him in the face. “Oh, it's you.” Borio rubbed his mustache in thought, seemingly annoyed at being interrupted. “Well, since you're here, I suppose you could make yourself useful. I have had a rodent problem lately. I think they are behind that wall over there. Now go! I have work to do. With my dear mother in the hospital I unfortunately have had to actually work at running my company, so I am terribly busy at the moment.”

For a moment as Death studied Borio, it seemed as though the man's mustache actually moved to a hard, firm position simply at the thought of doing work Death peered in for a closer look. And did they actually bristle? That mustache was indeed a peculiar phenomena. After a few moments, Borio huffed a big sigh and proclaimed “Look, these ledgers aren't going to balance themselves, so are you going to make yourself useful or not?”

Death replied calmly “Oh dear, you have had to work? Well that is indeed unfortunate. I mean, it has been fortunate that your mother has stepped to run the business in after your father's unfortunate, and also quite mysterious passing, with you getting to do, well, whatever you wish. It would indeed be a shame if that era were to come to an end if your mother were, to say, take a turn for the worse, now wouldn't it? You are the heir to the family business, is this not correct?”

Borio looked Death in the eyes and stood, grabbing his cane as he heaved himself up out of the chair. Borio appeared to momentarily eye the plush chair regretfully, then turned and responded, “You wouldn't dare. The doctor's say she is improving! You have no right to take her.”

Death responded. “Ah, but you see, that's where you are wrong. You see, I have been sent for this very purpose to take her,” Death lied. “But, there is always flexibility, if there were, say, someone else to take her place.” Death pulled out a contract from his robe. “See here, all you have to do is find another unfortunate soul, add their name here, then sign over here on the dotted line. It really is quite simple.” Death spread his lips in an attempt to force a grin, although it came off awkwardly. He really needed to practice more at smiling.

Borio grabbed the contract from Death's hands, and pulled out a set of reading glasses. “My, there sure is a lot of fine print in this contract,” Borio scans the document, pulling at his mustache while reading to himself “...the signer of this contract therefore proceeds to forfeit any claims to his soul upon his death... Now what is this?!” Borio exclaimed. “I demand to have this language removed immediately!”

Death replied “But you don't really expect that you could just condemn someone before their time, and expect to escape with your own soul intact, now do you? I am truly sorry, but this is my price. Another life of your choice for your mother's, and in the end I get you!” Ok, now calm down, Death thought to himself. No need to get too worked up. You do want him to sign the contract, right?

Borio thought for a long moment, then his mustache sort of twitched upward to one side. Now what did that mean?? Finally, Borio grabbed the contract from Death's hands, wrote in a name, and signed it immediately, much to Death's surprise.

Death took up the contract, his eyes lighting up with glee. “You fool!!! Death exclaimed. I wasn't sent here for your mother at all! In fact, she is on her way back home from the hospital even now. Now one day, hopefully soon, you will be mine! MWAHAHAHA!!"

“Well, not quite." Borio replied calmly. "You see, I have seen your realm before in a dream you undoubtedly gave me, and it is rather tiresome. What you failed to notice is that the person I signed over is someone I happened across at the hospital earlier today, who I overheard the doctor's saying only had hours left to live. He was with the Prospection Company, and appeared to be suffering from a gunshot wound. Also, as an extra precaution I signed my name as Borio Sangaldi, who is another person entirely. You know, you reallyshould pay more attention before spilling all your evil plans and such.” Borio smiled, and the ends of his mustache seemed to curl upward again. Or was it his imagination?

Death inwardly seethed. The fool should not have been able to outsmart him! But he did get a little to excited, and didn't think to read the contract AT ALL. Idiot.

“Are you through now? I really need to get back to work.” Borio used his cane to ease his portly body back into his chair.

Death screamed at Borio “you have not seen the last of me! I will find a way to get you!!” With that, Death disappeared into a puff of smoke.

**********

Earnestwise Tomatopatch arrived back at his master's house. He wasn't sure why the man insisted on eating again, but surely the man had his reasons. As he approached his master's quarters, he heard a raspy voice yell “you have not seen the last of me! I will find a way to get you!!” Earnestwise quickly ran the rest of the way to his master's room and pushed open the door. “Sir! Is everything ok in here??

Borio replied, “Everything is fine now, Tomatopatch, not to worry. And ah, yes, you have brought me my Pastrami sandwich. My thanks to you.” the man's mustache twitched upwards in anticipation.

Tomatopatch remarked “you know, Borio, eating so many meals in a day will surely guarantee that Death will visit you one day prematurely.”

Borio replied, “Well, I think I will be fine. You see, Death did visit, and I have already cheated him once!”

Enjoy!

Here's a brand new WoB for you guys from the Houston signing.  Brandon signed something in my book related to the part 2 letters to Hoid, specifically the first letter.  Enjoy!

Q: Can you drop a hint about which Shard authored the first of the letters to Hoid shown in the part 2 epigraphs?

Brandon: You have seen their world.

Guys, super small edits, but I'm pretty sure this is it.  I have bad vision and am used to focusing/refocusing my vision to read words.. the Unmade are shadows of the enemy's "soul" not "mind".  I am also 100% about the word "completion" for the spy (Shallan).  

A new storm has come.

Ash and red lightning sweep the land awakening our ancient enemies. The Unmade - shadows of the Enemy's soul - stir, while the eyes of men open. This war is not, and never was, what they thought it to be.

We may soon hold Surges again, for the Radiance has returned to some, and shines toward others. The Captain, broken by loss, seeks reconciliation. The Spy, broken by cruelty, seeks completion. The Stonewalker, broken by oaths, seeks truth. The Traitor, broken by ambition, seeks freedom.

And finally, The King. Broken by war, he seeks the past. That which was abandoned. That which he must not know.

For those secrets will crush him as they did the knights who came before.

@Emerald101 yes you are right that the above wob's do not deny that a spren cannot be 100% honor or 100% Cultivation, but neither do they confirm it.  It does seem to confirm that there is a spectrum.  

I personally find it unlikely due to how intertwined in the underlying magic we find the influences of both Honor (more of a cognitive shard) and Cultivation (more of a physical shard).  Even "honorspren" are cousins of windspren, which seem to be more elemental rather than cognitive in nature, and therefore more related to Cultivation.  Shallan's spren, Pattern actually seems more related to Honor on many levels as it is so much more cognitive in nature.

A thought about the figure in black shardplate:  Any reason why this couldn't be Rayse?  It could be that since Dalinar doesn't know about Rayse that he assumes it is Odium's champion.  And the familiarity could be Dalinar having met or known Rayse already?

Does anyone else think that Rayse may have appeared somewhere on-screen already?

On 7/14/2017 at 11:23 AM, Pagerunner said:

(There is also the question of who was speaking to Bleeder, guiding her, but again, since there was no other Shard on Scadrial by that point, that means that either a Shard was communicating from a distance, or a Shard's agent was actually doing the communication.)

There is a WoB out there that says that as long as you can see one of Taldain's stars (most likely the daystar star), you can access Autonomy's investiture.

Q: Would someone with enough knowledge be able to use Autonomy’s investiture if Taldain could be seen from his world?

A: Ok so I’m on a world and I see Taldain’s star, are you asking if someone could use the investiture? Oh ok I see. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. That’s good! You stumped me. I haven’t gotten that question before. I would say yes, if the light particles are reaching you. I mean technically you could use the light from one of those stars to power a solar sail so…

I think Soul Forging is all about changing Identity, but I don't think it can also forge Connection to the Investiture (aka spren).  See the below WoB:

Q: If Shai were to gain a Shardblade, then she gave it up, could she create an essence mark that represented the history where she still had the Blade? If she then applied the essence mark could she summon the Shardblade or a copy of it?

A: So, um, doing that sort of thing, like rewriting herself even to be an Allomancer., or something like this....this is possible, but, in order to gain the Investiture she wants to have, she will have to input that much in Investiture, which her current magic system is not capable of doing. Okay? Alright, so, rewrite so that I have a Shardblade would require some sort of hacking of her magic system, which is currently impossible to her in her current situation.

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1099

21 hours ago, Shig said:

So, I red a bit of the wiki on Forging, and I feel like a combination of Remembering (learning the spiritual history of the shardblade) and Soul Forging may make it possible to imitate being the original recipient of the Nahel bond. You wouldn't have to imitate everything about them, but changing that specific part of the spirit web would likely make the sword identify the Soulforged individual as the original wielder. Whether that would be enough to revive the blade is questionable, but I bet it would make it significantly easier.

So this would grant you the knowledge and history of the shardblade/spren itself, but would you gain enough innate knowledge of the identity of the person you are trying to imitate?  But let's say you could do this.  I'm not sure that re-writing your spiritual Identity like this (as crazy as that may be to you!) would be enough.  

The Nahel bond centers around thoughts (the Cognitive/soul).  The Spren's thoughts and the Knight's thoughts are bound together ever so tightly, and we can see this at the end of WoR when Kaladin wavers between the two promises he has made, and what it does to the bond.  Since the Connection here has its source in thoughts, I am not sure that Feruchemy would be able to "fake" this kind of Connection like it can on Scadrial, where the Connection is to something in the physical realm.

I do think it interesting to not that Brandon capitalizes the word "Radiant" but not the word "vibrant".  Normally he capitalizes words that have Cosmere or Investiture significance.

7 hours ago, Zalocx said:

Edgedancer Blades are already Cultivation Blades. Actually I would assume that there are three different "types" of Shardblade considering they are more or less made out of God metal: pure Tanavastium blades (like Syl), pure Cultivationium blades (Wyndle) and Honor/Cultivation alloy blades since we know some spren including possible Bondspren are mixtures of different Shards + pre-Shattering remnants of investature

I think that some blades/spren are "more" of Honor than Cultivation, and vice versa, but I think all spren contain some of each.  Why would a pure spren of Cultivation care about oaths or ideals?   Also, even though Syl calls herself an honorspren, I think it is more because of how she sees herself, rather than due to her true nature as a spren.  See the below WoB's.  They aren't the most solid, but they do seem to point to not any spren being 100% of either Honor or Cultivation:

Quote

 

QUESTION

Is Cultivation's Shardholder still alive.

BRANDON SANDERSON

Good question, what do you think?

QUESTION

I want to say, but that's based on my knowledge before I read Lift's interlude from Words of Radiance. Now I am leaning towards no. Based on that interlude, it looks like spren have essence from both Honor and Cultivation. It's almost like they exist in a spectrum, on one end of which is Honor, and on the other - Cultivation; so there are spren that are, for the lack of better example, 90% Honor and 10% Cultivation, and there are spren that are 15% Honor and 85% Cultivation.

BRANDON SANDERSON

That's a very astute observation

http://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kwt='cultivation'

 

On 8/21/2017 at 1:35 PM, Ward said:

BRAIZE = YOLEN.

Good thought, but we are fairly certain this is not the case.  

It has been highly theorized that Braize was formerly the Tranquiline Halls and potentially where the Heralds are from originally, of which I agree, but I do not believe Braize = Yolen.

Most of the proof for this is in the below thread, based on the correspondence between Frost and Hoid included in select epigraphs of the first two books.  (Frost is on Yolen btw).

7 hours ago, Extesian said:

There's a significant change that jumps straight out. Gavilar does not say he has another black sphere. We know he does but he doesn't tell Eshonai. Another big one is that Venli was with Klade.

I didn't notice this.  That means Venli was with Klade when he bought Szeth,  I wonder, if Venli is already under Odium's influence somehow (which I am sure has already been theorized), if she used some type of voidbinding to sense the investiture Szeth was carrying (Jezrien's Honorblade)?

The below appears to be modified ever so slightly from the earlier draft we were given.  For example:

Previous version:

"Gavilar removed something from his pocket. A sphere? It was dark, yet somehow still dun, as if it had an aura of blackness, a phantom light that was not light at all, faintly violet, a sphere that seemed to stop the light around it."

Current version:

"Gavilar removed something from his pocket. A sphere? It was dark, yet somehow still glowed. As if it… had an aura of blackness, a phantom light that was not light. Faintly violet. It seemed to suck in light around it."

Not sure if these edits give us any new information, but at least we know what we are getting now from TOR has gone through revisions

10 minutes ago, Shqueeves said:

I wish for world peace

Granted.  A small, sparcely populated world at the edge of the Cosmere, which is still in the Stone Age, is now at peace.  And you are not able to leave this world.

I wish for more wisdom.