fyodor

I had assumed that it was an Elantrian. Both of them compare the local magic systems to that of Sel. Seems strange that they would do so if the author him/herself was not from Sel. 

Following up, it sounds like Honor was alive when his Spren started creating Knights-says that he was surprised by it. 

So, after the first book I had been under the impression that spren were pieces or splinters of dead/slain gods.

But reading the second it looks like there are Spren associated with Cultivation (who I didn't think was dead), such as Lift's crystal growing Spren (who does a Cultvating-type task) and the Stormfather mentions Odium's spren.

Was I misunderstanding the original interpretation? Are there other non-splintered Spren?

The stormfather mentions seeing Honor being murdered? Is it possible that the Spren exist in some form even before the parent-deity dies.

Ahh. Good catch.

A question to the more careful readers out there.

When Szeth and Kaladin use stormlight there seem to be a number of references to them taking abilities not specifically related to surgebinding (augmented speed, healing, physical grace, etc).

Other than healing have we seen any non-Windrunner characters show these abilities? Lift is able to move really quickly, but this seems to be a characteristic of her slipperiness. She sees Darkness (who I assume is a Skybreaker) moving inhumanly fast and draws the conclusion that he's able to use Stormlight.

I'm pretty sure that Shallan hasn't shown abilities other than healing but we don't really see her doing anything physically demanding.

Am I missing anything?

I just want to say that this is fantastic. I love it. Plus Desaturation? That's totally Nightblood! And Summon a Lamp Once? We sort of see that in Way of Kings. But I still love how many of these could be done with Brandon's magic systems.

Actually, the lamp thing made me think of awakening (i.e. general control of random household items).

Mistborn Powers

75 percent levitation (filling an ironmind)

Attract bullets (burning iron)

Super slow motion (filling a steelmind, burning cadmium)

1 second superstrength (tapping a pewtermind)

Accelerated aging (filling an atiummind)

Attract bad luck (filling chromiummind)

Warbreaker

Summon lamps (awakening)

Desaturation (nightblood side effect).

I think that at least six of these "useless superpowers" appear in Mistborn....

http://i.imgur.com/q5phJ.jpg

Mistborn Swat Team

And other Lerasium Bead is stated by Peter here in the TWG Archives.

Any other questions?

I don't think that the Lerasium bead will show up in Mistborn. I think that Hoid is gathering pieces of the shards for some larger purpose.

My pet theory is that the kidnapped women in AoL are part of an effort to breed a new mistborn.

First of all, I don't think it too unlikley that he also had:

Copper(A)

Zinc(A)

I'm pretty sure that he riots Marasi's curiousity at the end of AOL, so you can probably make Zinc a confirmed power.

Yes, he runs out of healing (almost). But, remember, he only has that one spike to tap from. It could probably not be filled with incredible amounts of healing. And he does get crushed under the rubble from Kerdik Shaw which would probably burn through his store quite quickly. And sure, maybe he just couldn't Compound at that point, not even TLR got it right from the start according to Brandon.

He could have used other goldminds-he didn't have to limit himself to just one spike. Why would Ruin go through the trouble of finding him a gold misting or Mistborn and not give him instruction and/or sufficient gold?

Re his injuries, a real gold compounder like Miles can get blown up repeatedly, shot up, etc, without being slowed down.

There's just no reason to think that he could compound gold and plenty of indicators (BS's comments that inquisitors weren't compounding, his running out of healing, etc) to think that he did couldn't.

B.S implied (though he didn't quite state it outright) that Marsh had gotten some double powers. Edited to remove intervening text.

"1) In an annotation from book 1, it is mentioned that The Lord Ruler needed all 3 magic systems in order to do what he did. I always assumed that it meant his Hemalurgy enhanced his Allomancy. Did Marsh get a double power, or is the Feruchemy-Allomancy combo enough? ( a sidebar to this question is whether or not stacking abilities is possible through Hemalurgy).

....

1) He used Hemalurgy to pull off his most dramatic effects. Marsh didn't need them, but it makes things much easier. "

The "Marsh" character in the RPG has a book 3 version with some double allomantic powers. I wouldn't rely on it too much though, since he's missing some known powers, like Allomantic pewter.

Regarding Gold compounding, I'm pretty sure that he runs out of healing during his fight with Vin, which would be very unlikely if he could compound. Sanderson says in his annotations that at least as of the beginning of Book 3, they hadn't learned to compound. We certainly don't see any evidence of it- the Inquisitors show smaller bursts of strength and speed consistent with regular Feruchemy, instead of super-augmented versions you would expect if they could compound.

Hi again, in this rant-tastic entry, titled Marsh's Mystery Spikes, I'd like to explore the enhanced Inquisitors of Ruin's day. More specifically I'd like to explore how they were enhanced (and, no I'm not an idiot, it was through Hemalurgy, I know, what I mean is what power(s) they were given) and I'd like to do this using the example Marsh (this may also give me a chance to be a huge Marsh fanboy ).

So, let's start with the known: 1) Marsh has at least 21 Hemalurgic spikes, 11 from the start and ten more somewhere near the start of HoA, ""Does that...hurt, Marsh?" she asked. "The spikes, I mean?" He paused. "Yes, all eleven of them...throb.[...]"" (Mistborn, p. 637, TOR paperback), "Of all the Inquisitors, Marsh had been given the largest number of new spikes-he had ten new ones planted at various places in his body." (The Hero of Ages, p. 119, TOR paperback).

2) Known powers.

(I do this under the assumption that no further spikes were gained during the rest of HoA, though it's a possibility)

Iron(A)

Steel(A)(F)

Tin(A)

Pewter(A)(F)

Brass(A)

Bronze(A)

Gold(F)

Duralumin(A)

Atium(A)(F)

This gives us 12 confirmed spikes (if I missed any that are confirmed in the books please tell me) and 9 unknowns. Here is the speculation part.

First of all, I don't think it too unlikley that he also had:

Copper(A)

Zinc(A)

I have, however, been unable to find references to him using these abilities (again, please tell me if I'm wrong)

This leaves us with 7 unknowns and I don't think that he had any of the powers that were unknown at the time (Chromium, Nicrosil, Bendalloy, Cadmium) as they would both have been hard to find and Vin would probably have noted the unfamiliar metals in Marsh's vials when she stole them.

Now then, 7 more spikes... I think that, at least to a degree, the Inquisitors were given (F)-powers that complemented their (A) and (H)-powers, that is where they could also burn the metal (and thus Compound it) and use their spikes as metalminds, thus ruling out any of the pure (non-alloy) physical and mental metals since they steal human attributes and that, apparently, twists the recipient much more. Unless of course they started wearing external metalminds.

Now, on with the speculation. I think at least Marsh was granted the following:

Gold(A) (for Compounding)

Bronze(F) (as above)

Now, I admit, he could have gotten Brass(F) as well, but I just don't see that being useful in a fight (because Atium(F) clearly is). Still, even if you assume that, that's 4 spikes unaccounted for, 2 if you assume double external physical metals (and I think we kinda have to, what with the previously mentioned nine-spiker). So then, what could those last two spikes be? I frankly haven't the faintest...

Actually, maybe Iron(F) and Zinc(F), if we assume exernal metalminds (I went with those because the make the most sense to me, Iron for Pushing and Pulling, Zinc for mental speed).

I'm new here. So this is something I have been thinking about, all the Arts are hereditary, as far as I can see. In the Alloy of law one character is said to have Koloss blood. Taking this into account a kandra could mate with a human and the human would have shapeshifting abilities. Anyone with a spike providing femurchemical or allomatic abilities would pass those abilities on to their desendents. They could start breeding allomancers, ofcourse since hemurugy causes energy loss the next generation would have greatly weakened abilities. So what are anyone elses thoughts?

It should be noted that the Koloss were specifically altered by Sazed to be able to breed true. They couldn't do so originally. Kandra can't reproduce and produce other Kandra. See the following quote from the Brandonology.

"It isn't mentioned where all the Steel Inquisitors, Kandra, and Koloss went in the end. Do you feel that they were removed from the world and Sazed took all the lost souls to his better place?

Marsh survived. (He'll show up in the Mistborn sequel series.) The Kandra were restored, and have taken a vow to live only in animal bodies. There will never be any more of them, but they are functionally immortal. So you'll see them again. The Koloss who were in the cavern at the time survived, and were changed to become a race that breeds true, rather than Hemalurgic monsters. More below."

Huh-I hadn't considered that the Mistborn inquisitors would be able to compound gold. I'd think that the lack of the healing spike would put them at a pretty big disadvantage, but I guess their double-strength allomancy would make up for it.

On the Crafty Games forum, there was a similar thread. http://www.crafty-games.com/forum/index.php?topic=6047.0

To summarize, we think the following statements are plausible:

1. The 9 spike Inquisitors are those who were Mistborn originally. They lack the spike for Atium or Electrum Allomancy and the spike for Gold Feruchemy to prevent compounding and to avoid needless duplication.

2. The 11 spike Inquisitors (like Marsh) are those who were just Mistings originally (like Marsh). They need Atium or Electrum to go head to head with full Mistborn, and Gold Feruchemy in general because most would be Seekers (like Marsh), not Thugs, so they wouldn't have the enhanced healing (like Urkel).

3. The additional Allomantic spike the Mistings get is probably Atium, hence the search for Atium Mistings.

The funny thing about that count is that I'm pretty sure they relied on Gold(F) for doing things like surviving getting knifed in the throat or peppered with arrowheads. Either only the 11 spikers had those or this guy was created post-TLR.

I am pretty much certain that not a single Inquisitor had an Atium spike prior to Ruin hijacking them, and they used Electrum instead.

This is pretty clearly contradicted by what B.S. told us. From the brandonology (intervening text removed).

Quote from: sporkify on October 18, 2008, 03:34:40 AM 1) How did Inquisitors find Atium mistings?

1) They spike the drinks at one of the nobility's balls with trace amounts of Atium, then cause a bit disturbance. (Often, the Inquisitors themselves arriving will do it) and burn bronze and watch for brief pulses. The body will burn metals instinctively if it can, which has been shown quite often in the series. This is also how they get a lot of their secret information about who is a Misting and who isn't. It's not a perfect method, since you have to watch for Copperclouds messing things up, but it is effective once in a while.

Any time an obligator who is not a Misting joins the Ministry, he is unknowingly given a larger chunk of atium and then forced into a series of rituals that will drain him physically and get the body to react and burn the metal. This was how Yomen was discovered.

Like Feruchemy storing being a discrete process with hour long quanta, instead of a continuous process able to be turned on and off whenever? That makes sense.

Yeah, partially. If someone's storing all of his strength and speed it would be annoying if they suffered absolutely no downside because they could turn it off immediately in a fight.

Pewter is weaker and faster-burning than in the books (many characters are burning pewter continuously). Whereas in the books everyone who uses it gets borderline superhuman physical abilities (so much so that pewter burners are immediately recognizable as such), the benefits in the RPG are somewhat muted. Atium doesn't make you invincible. All understandable adjustments.

I chuckled a bit when I read the limitations on storing in metalminds during the break. That's exactly how I would have abused the system during my RPG days. "OK, we're in town. I'm going to be a moronic, sickly, and slow vegetable for the next two weeks. See ya"

I like this a lot! One idea I had is that Ruin was possibly hedging a bit, and making sure that if Vin did take up Preservation, that he would still have eternal servants under his absolute control to use as tools while he and Vin contested for control of Scadrial. He didn't realize however that Vin would be able to sacrifice herself to destroy Ruin.

Yeah-one thing to keep in mind is that while Ruin was going to be able kill everyone shortly, it wasn't a fair accompli that he'd get to destroy the world completely (his actual goal). That's why he freaks out when he learns that Elend had destroyed the atium. It's very plausible to me that he wanted to have some immortal servants hanging around.

I noticed that as well. In fact, it said that for all the "enhancement" metals even though I can't really see either chromium or nicrosil being useful if they burn away instantly. I can see them burning really fast, but not going poof like Aluminum.

I suspect that this is a game-power-balance issue.

3 things

1. In Mistborn 1, it's stated explicitly that TLR chose the capital because of the high mineral content, which is why Vin got enough residual metals to perform minor feats of Allomancy. It may be that the soldiers were consuming less mineral-ly water.

2. Vin gradually came to notice her abilities over 16 years. It's plausible that the soldiers never figured out what was going on, but might have after enough time.

3. According to the quote above, the newly snapped allomancers were pretty weak. It may be that they needed more in the way of ingested metal to know that they were Allomancers.

Exactly. The only real question I have is where were the residual metals in the soldiers that snapped. I can understand no Atium as it only occured at the pits. Copper and Pewter users could have used it instinctively without knowing. Tin is harder to explain away because they would definately known their hearing, sight, smell, and touch were better. Iron, well, that would be fairly obvious to those that used.

The easiest explanation is that all the stores gradually flushed from their system due to the army being on the march for so long. Pewter and iron are generally heavier than wood for the common soldier so they might not have had access to utensils made of those. Still, cooking for that many men probably required some type of metalic vessel.

We could go into a long discussion of why they did not have to built of stores, but that would be pretty silly to do. It is much easier and efficient just to say they did not have the residual metals in their systems. Once they had the metals introduced, they could tell. At one point, Sazed even questions how many mistings were never discovered solely because their metals were not available.

2 things

1. In Mistborn 1, it's stated explicitly that TLR chose the capital because of the high mineral content, which is why Vin got enough residual metals to perform minor feats of Allomancy. It may be that the soldiers were consuming less mineral-ly water.

2. Vin gradually came to notice her abilities over 16 years. It's plausible that the soldiers never figured out what was going on, but might have after enough time.

Exactly. The only real question I have is where were the residual metals in the soldiers that snapped. I can understand no Atium as it only occured at the pits. Copper and Pewter users could have used it instinctively without knowing. Tin is harder to explain away because they would definately known their hearing, sight, smell, and touch were better. Iron, well, that would be fairly obvious to those that used.

The easiest explanation is that all the stores gradually flushed from their system due to the army being on the march for so long. Pewter and iron are generally heavier than wood for the common soldier so they might not have had access to utensils made of those. Still, cooking for that many men probably required some type of metalic vessel.

We could go into a long discussion of why they did not have to built of stores, but that would be pretty silly to do. It is much easier and efficient just to say they did not have the residual metals in their systems. Once they had the metals introduced, they could tell. At one point, Sazed even questions how many mistings were never discovered solely because their metals were not available.

So, after snapping, at least some of the people could tell something was different. They may not have been able to use it without instruction, but they could tell something was different with their bodys.

They knew something was different AFTER they ingested metals. They didn't have any idea until that point.

I registered with this forum to start this topic so I might discuss a few questions that have been nagging me throughout my reading of Alloy of Law. I do not know if they have been expressed before but here goes:

This bears some further discussion. I would look up the other thread for a more detailed explanation, but Skimmers don't become "stronger" in the sense of muscular strength. The tensile/supporting strength of Wax's body increases so that he doesn't fall apart but he can't lift heavier objects or otherwise perform acts of strength. If you look at Sazed's descriptions, he has a lot of trouble moving when heavy. Similarly, Wax is lighter on his feet when at 3/4 weight. This lightness comes from having the same physical strength but moving a lighter body.

Thank you all for replying =)

@Fyodor: That's a great reference, they did get sick for one day if I'm correct right? Maybe this is the direct effect of Snapping? If this is correct I can keep to my original plan in order for them to Snap, without them knowing that they have Snapped, I like it It's so much more rewarding if your players experiment on themselves because of some vague hints from my part.

I don't think that the ten days of sickness are a direct effect of snapping. I just think that the mistsickness inflicted so much agony that it snapped everyone with even slight Allomantic potential.

I forget where this was said, but someone stated that TLR used nicrosil-minds to power his atium-minds. He would sit by the fire in his "Terris-room", store warmth, compound warmth, drain the charge to his nicrosil-minds, then charge up his bracers.

Can anyone confirm this? Or am I delusional?

The RPG discusses how Nicrosil-minds can be fed with one Feruchemical characteristic and then be tapped to provide another. It also says that TLR was planning to use them to store the power from the Well.

For reasons that aren't entirely clear to me, people drew the conclusion that TLR was using the fireplace to get Brass-heat that could be converted to Atium.

Here's what the epigraphs say - from http://coppermind.17thshard.com/wiki/The_Hero_of_Ages/Epigraphs

"Yes, there are sixteen metals. I find it highly unlikely that the Lord Ruler did not know of them all. Indeed, the fact that he spoke of several on the plates in the storage caches meant that he knew at least of those. "

I understand the sixteen metals to which Sazed refers be inclusive of Malatium and Atium though, which puts a hitch in it.

I don't think that they are aware of their abilities until they ingest the metals and sense the metal reserves. For example, the mist-snapped people in HOA don't know that they're allomancers until Elend tests them with metals.

Is this from the RPG? Or a supposition?

It's in the RPG. I'm sure that in part, it's an attempt to make the comparatively weak powers seem less lame.