vicsmith1412

My recommendation would be to just read the new, anniversary edition. It fixes some of the flaws in the first version and isn't actually that different- unless you want to compare them logistically, there's really no reason you need to go back and read the first. The second doesn't take anything away, only adds it.

Ah, I totally want one of these! And there are at least two others not on this site who would also purchase!

I finally got ahold of this book, and this was my main source of contemplation. 

I believe that an important point to remember is that while this is Sazed- the same man who assisted in a revolution and lost his own love- it is also Harmony. A lot of people point out that he is restricted by the different shards he holds, but I believe that argument should be central to the discussion. How much of the decision making is Sazed, and how much is the intents of the shards? He MUST keep Preservation and Ruin equal. This is inherent to the balance of his shards. By making the mistake he did when he recreated the world, by giving them too much prosperity and growth in the beginning, he used a lot of preservation. As a result, I believe that Ruin is seeping into things as part of the natural order of his powers. Ruin is trying to re-balance society. To me, it feels like this whole situation Harmony has gotten himself into is the result of his attempts to prevent the ruin that is inevitable from destroying his pet society entirely. He knows he made a mistake, and he seems to imply that the mistake had much further consequences than just putting society behind by his account. He implies that society being behind is detrimental to them in some larger way, and that they are not prepared. 

This does not necessarily mean that he is not wrong to hurt Wax as he did. It only means that there is a large scope to his actions: not even by shard standards, but by more immediate standards as well. I don't think TenSoon meant that Wax knowing who the kandra was would have consequences later. I believe he meant that the immediate situation would get worse in ways they could not imagine. Every decision Harmony makes leads to a web of new possibilities. He knows that, even if we don't take into effect that he can see them. He must make every decision in a way that leads to the very best result he believes to be possible. Even as a God, that means he is GOING to make mistakes, he is going to make decisions that may seem bad or hurtful. The probability that he makes every single correct decision and saves every single life that he can is lower than I'd like. In the span of Godhood, he is still young.

Honestly, rather than seeing Wax as the child being raised, I kind of see Sazed as the child that was left alone to raise himself with only books to show him what to do. He was never taught what to do, how to do it, in the world of the gods.

Though, separately from that, I was still quite angry at Harmony for doing what he did. Whether his actions were right or wrong, understandable or not, they still hurt. While I agree that he did his best, that doesn't mean people don't have to feel angry, sad, or upset.

I also believe there are two scenes in which he appears near the others specifically. Both of which are him disguised as a beggar. When I get home I can quote them directly, but for now, I believe I remember him as an informant for Elend, and I also believe he was the informant Vin decided to avoid when she was trying to find information on Yomen's city. Can anyone verify? That would place him in at least two places over the course of the books that are very far from one another- why he was in these places at these specific times and where he went between is a mystery. 

I do agree with the Terris theory, however.

Another description of a stoneward is that they are amazing fighters and their surges will be for fighting (haven't seen yet). And we all know what lirin thinks of fighting. No, if Lirin is a radiant (which I highly doubt) he will have the surge of progression because in his mind you cannot kill to protect. The problem with becoming radiants is they have to have strong traits in one area, if they have a lot of traits from the different orders they just wouldn't become a radiant. If anyone is going to be a stoneward it is Rock (look at his name). He is dependable, trustworthy, stubborn and a very very good fighter (Look at his bow skills and his fight with Kaladin). If you look at Rock's cooking you can see that is not where his strength lies, his strength lies in fighting (and he enjoys it). I believe he was a 3rd son (forget which son does what) which makes him a fighter but his older brother died which make him take on the responsibilities of a second son (aka cooking). If given a little backstory and development I believe Rock could become a very strong character. It seems to me that people are drawing connections out of thin air and trying to justify so many characters becoming radiants and i have to disagree, it would be way to cliche for every somewhat important character to become a radiant. I believe that most new radiants will not come from the characters we have now (were will the squires come from). And the only reason I think ROCK will become (or is) a STONEward is because Sanderson has made so many hints towards it and the way he writes about Rock just suggests that he will become important (and who wouldn't love a giant in shard plate? with a hammer?). It would just be nice if people stop saying so and so will become a radiant, because they usually have no proof and if they do its a very flawed argument.

Oh, where does it say they're fighters? I must have missed it; the wiki page isn't yet complete. If that's the case, it does make lirin being viable for their order more unlikely. But I also can't see him as a wind runner for the same reason and the fact that he displays very differently from kaladin. But note I did say I personally believe it unlikely that lirin would have bonded with a Spren. It's just fun thinking about the possibilities, and I support the theory that we will see more and more join the orders past the main ten being focused on, so brandon could take it any way he wants.

As to rock, yeah, i follow your reasoning. I have never heard of him changing from a warrior to a cook because of a change of station, but I know he doesn't fight because of birth order. He may or may not discard that hierarchy, we can't know now, but he would probably have to to become a stoneward.

Personally, I do not want to read a re-play of WoK. So for me, having Kaladin's family being still persecuted by the entire village, having them still struggle to find food, having Kaladin come back and challenge Roshone: this is all repetition and I fail to see the progress.

 

What do I wish to see?

 

Kaladin's parents are being both alive and whereas Roshone is still determined to make their lives hard, the villagers won't have any of it. After seeing Lirin lose both of his sons, the villagers start to warm up to the poor family. They start to notice that, despite there obvious grief, Lirin and Hesina still care enough to cure their illness without asking for payment. Their neighbors thus start to help them, with a few small things: a loaf of bread left on the door step, a pot of milk forgotten nearby, these sort of things. Never much to attract notice, but small things which makes a difference.

 

In the mean time, Laral marries Roshone. She is not broken, she refuses to be broken, so she takes her life into her hands, determined to make best with worst. Roshone is old, so she is convinced she will outlast him. He gives her children, which she raises lovingly and if she lets their father dot on them at times, she is clear on certain things: never act entitled as you never know when you are going to lose it all. Make plans.Then make a beta plans and never, ever become a victim. Slowly, Laral gets her hand around running the small town. Roshone is getting older and tired and whereas he still openly hates Kaladin's family, he still issues threats, they sound more hollow than before. Laral eventually becomes the one calling the shots. She is shrewd. She uses her husband to get her wishes, she manipulates him into thinking he is the one doing the decision making, but he isn't. Laral is. When Roshone is not looking, she makes sure Kaladin's family do not go wanting. She never mentions the spheres.

 

When Kaladin comes back, he sees an old Roshone and a fresh faced very busy Laral with three little children in tow. She is happy to see him and tell him she has seen that his family had what they needed. She has everything within her control and the villagers obey her willingly. Under her careful management, the small town had managed to mostly survive the Everstorm, with a minimum casualties. It seems they were not in need of saving after all.

 

Kaladin is unsure of his feelings towards Laral, but she is rather clear. Perhaps she had loved him once and because of this, she took care of his family as best as she could, but she has a purpose now. Yes, Roshone is an awful husband, but he never raised a hand to her. Yes, she wished she had marry someone else, but she has found a life now. She is making their town better: she grew up here and wish to remain there.

 

Roshone is angry at seeing Kaladin being back, but there isn't much he can do. Kaladin sees his old enemy and sees.... an old agitated man. Pathetic. Kaladin finally lets go of his anger and decides revenge is not required after all. He walks away proving he is the better man and whatever power Roshone may still have over him, he loses it.

 

Nobody in Heartstone want to leave to seek safety elsewhere so Kaladin organizes their defense. He teaches all men how to defend themselves and when he leaves, Heartstone is standing strong. In the future, they will harvest refugees and the small town will grow larger and larger and larger.

 

This is what I wish to see. I wish to see people who aren't Radiants take their lives into their hands and I do not wish for Kaladin to always be the savior. He did not save Heartstone, he has no claim towards Heartstone: he left and he refused to come back. Heartstone is not his to protect anymore. Laral is doing it now.

Lara's being the caretaker of hearthstone sounds wonderful. She would take to the position wonderfully. Plus, with roshone's revenge complete in that they exchanged a son for a son and kaladin never came back, I would assume he might be less harsh on Kaladin's parents. I don't know if enough time has passed for all of this to happen, though. How many years has it been since kaladin left hearthstone?

I love the ideas you've put together here. But if Kaladin's father turned out to be a radiant-- to me not necessarily likely but would be awesome-- I think I would peg him as a Stoneward rather than a Windrunner. They 

 

 

exemplifyed resolve, strength, and dependability. They were however also described as stubborn to a fault.

Lirin is resolved to allow the town to continue to depend on him. He stubbornly will not leave his home, no matter how bad it is to him. Both of Kaladin's parents display great strength every time they are shown. If Lirin was to bond with a spren, I believe he would be a Stoneward over any of the other orders. 

I also do hope Laral is still alive. She was politically maneuvered into an awful life the last time we saw her. She needs to outlive her husband and find real happiness.

Though it was never explicitly stated, I always got the impression that shardplate was just an extension of a radiant's spren abilities/order abilities as opposed to stormlight. Kaladin says oath one:surgebinding, oath two: spren as weapon, oath three: materialize shardplate? There seems to be a direct correlation between oaths taken and powers granted, so until Kal hits oath 5 I'm going to be waiting for him to make his own plate

From the moment his shardblade appeared, I thought this would be the result of one of the oaths as well. I believe that shardplate is yet another extension of Syl's powers being used for Kaladin, and follows the logic of his surges, or the same for another pair. I do believe it will be further along than oath three, though; Shallan might be support for this, as she seems to have gone beyond summoning her own weapon by at least one "truth" and does not yet have shardplate.

Plus, if the avarage shin is as brainwashed into obedience as Szeth they would probably rationalize that an Everstorm does not mean it is another desolation or something like that, because disobedience is such an alien concept to them(after all, it took Szeth becoming insane after all the killing he did for no good reason, and them realizing that it was done as punishment for a crime he didn't do, and them being brought back from the dead by his god, for him to rebel.)

This is a good point. Szeth's obedience might come at least partly from his personality, but that level is rarely reached without societal pressures. If he was pushed that far, there have to be others that are the same. The question is: what will happen when they also realize how wrong they were? What will that kind of nationwide psychology produce? 

Well, I look most like vin and definitely identify with her. But renarin or Elend would be better choices. I am a bookworm idealist whose had to change both my view on the world and the way I present myself to fit in and become a leader. But I also have aspergers, like the truthwatchers, and am the little sibling who isn't strong physically but would like to be.

Exactly!

Religion/society/worldview overthrown: check

Oppressed warrior class: check

riot/revolution chance: unknown

 

How quickly can the Shamans deploy with their Honorblades to keep the warriors in their place if needed?

 

A chaotic setting could make it easier for Nale to operate.  Does Nale plan to get the rest of the Honorblades?  My crystal ball seems broken...  An interesting situation, to be sure.

Honestly, I don't believe the Shamans would react fast at all. They've been in denial for a long time, and it seems like parshmen either don't live there or are less common, so even after the storm passes, it's possible they could still attempt to ignore the desolation. So if Nale does intend to get the rest... anything could happen. There are too many variables. Outcome is foggy, try again later.

I first heard of Sanderson when one of my friends-- who works at a library and is always throwing new books at us to try-- lent me a copy of mistborn. I immediately loved it and am now more obsessed with the cosmere and related entities than the one who introduced me to it. Since then I've bought all of sanderson's writings that are out on paperback. I'm also considering getting the audio books for a few.

My interpretation is that the Everstorm was designed long ago, but is actualized for the first time.  This would allow it to be a new thing, but old of design.  I am not aware of the listener songs referring to it.  Eshonai and her sister seem to discuss it as a new event.  So my belief is that the Everstorm has never hit Shinovar before. 

Given the unknowns involved in the effect on Shinovar, I find predicting even it's approximate effect on Shinovar to be a dubious enterprise. 

It seems that it will have a huge effect, both physically and culturally (as the Valley of Truth turns out to be based on a lie).  Brandon can make it as significant as he wants for the best story.

Thank you for finding that quote. I knew it existed but I forgot where it occured.

But you bring up an interesting point. Can shinovar be truly safe if their culture and belief system just turned out to be a lie? That's got to bring some chaos into the mix.

They do, yes. But the ideal hair color is black, which is natural Alethi. The others are mixed in from marrying other races. And it is a different world, so they're not going to definitely be exactly like a race on earth. I mean, Adolin's hair is blonde and black naturally. Plus, with eye color, their whole society is based around it, and only the nobles have light eyes. He's likely to play around with eye color rather than stick to what most people assume is the main look for a race here.

Welcome!

Do you mean to say you've read all of the cosmere books in only six weeks? Because that's pretty impressive. Vin is also one of my favorite characters- she's just an amazingly well put together character.

Good luck figuring things out. It's pretty easy, but there are tons of people around who can answer any questions.

Interesting. I thought Honor was someone called "Tanavast"? Seemingly human in appearance probably if he created mankind. Assuming he made in his own image and then chose to appear human to other humans. I really like that his series are fantasy but with an undercurrent of sci-fi.

I'm fairly certain that Tanavast was simply the shareholder. He would have taken hold of the shard and its power at some point, and uses it according to his will and the nature of the shard, and is likely to think of himself in whatever form he had originally. If you look at the wiki, there is probably more information about it, relevant and not, to your question, but I am just starting to look into them myself so I know very little about Tanavast specifically.

Words of Radiance is probably my favorite as well. What others books of his have you read? If you haven't yet, I recommend reading Warbreaker. It's a fantastic smaller book.

Hi and welcome! I'm fairly new too and actually am in the process of rereading everything. Definitely recommend it! There are so many hidden little clues to look for.

So what's your favorite Sanderson book?

I agree with natc. There seems to be more evidence that the Everstorm is a first for the desolations. That isn't to say that shinovar isn't safer from the storm, but at the same time, if it was safe from the Everstorm, a lot of other countries would be too. While it has one range between it and the coming storm, both of the ranges surrounding it stand between the storm and a lot more land. I assume that if that was the case, they wouldn't be nearly so worried about it coming back around, because it would always lessen in the mountains.

I would love a live adaption, but there would be several issues. Firstly, I agree with the magic problems; I was very disappointed with the portrayal of Gandalf in the LoTR movies. It was a great character, but they really ignored the whole firemage thing. Peter Jackson said that the wizard throwing fireballs was too stereotypical, but Gandalf is the archetype character the whole stereotype grew from.

Another issue would be cost. It would likely be more expensive to make than GoT, and TV executives will be unlikely to spend money on something that is radically different from the formulas that create shows that they expect to be successfull. I can imagine the sales pitch:

 

TV Executive: So, whats the story about?

Brandon's agent: Its an epic tale of good versus evil, set on a magical alien world with a unique ecosystem.

TV Executive: Aliens can be good. Space aliens?

Brandon's agent: No, more an indigenous lifeform. They look similar to humans. But most of the characters are human. The humans were magically transported there in the distant past by their god, to escape one of his evil counterparts.

TV Executive: So, what are these people like?

Brandon's agent: Kind of like a medieval empire of Polynesians, with a somewhat stagnant culture defined by static social stratification. They-

TV Executive: Polynesian?

Brandon's agent: Mostly yes, there are several cultures on the planet, but the books are mainly focused around the Alethi.

TV Executive: Are there any white people?

Brandon's agent: Well, Szeth is white. He's a short, skinny, bald, psychotic mass murderer.

TV Executive: Hmmm. I've read some of the character notes. Do you think maybe Hayden Christensen could do Kaladin?

 

 

 

edit: words missing

This is the most true to life post I've ever read. Sadly. Because that is exactly what would happen if hollywood picked this movie up right now. That's my main vote against live action.

Personally I thought both Jasnah and Szeth were dead and was pleased to discover that neither of them were. Syl I was afraid was dead but had a feeling she would come back. Again I was extremely pleased that she returned.

 

Given that WOR was the second book of a 5 book arc in a 10 book series I think it is a positive sign that we aren't losing characters early on. It means that Brandon has chosen his main characters with care and they all have stories to tell that they need to be alive for. Killing them at this point would only really serve for shock value which has been done to death with GOT and is no longer very shocking.

 

I remember one Writing Excuses episode where they talked about making stakes higher than just whether the character lives or dies. WOR has at least four characters who are walking a fine line between light and darkness and any of them could fall. All of them are highly significant to the way the plot develops so I am happy that they haven't been killed of so we can feel a moment of sadness.

Like a lot of people, I thought Jasnah and Syl were alive but didn't quite expect Szeth. It was suspect that his body was just left there, but then I didn't like him much either. While I understand cultural pressures, I'm also the type of person who just hates that excuse for someone doing awful things.

You have some fantastic points, though. We've seen a lot of side character death in the series already, and at this point, with the series as long as it is, killing off a main character would almost amount to them losing their status as a main character. With the amount of characters in each book, killing one off would leave the death feeling slightly like it's cut a story in half. I do love GoT, but honestly it's way too much for me, and having a series where killing off main characters isn't the main way to provide shock or make character's lives awful is nice. It means we get to explore them, not wait for their inevitable loss.

Honestly, my opinion is that it's definitely more complex than that. Seloun is right that there's definitely a shown interest there, but attraction does not necessarily equal like or the possibility of a relationship. Kaladin is much more interested in his own problems at the moment, so he's unlikely to try to get between the already formed couple when he likes both of them. Shallan also has her own problems and does like Adolin as well. I think there is definitely a possibility there, but that it's a full maybe that it's viable for something more. We just won't know until we see how the three of them interact in the next book.

And personally, I like Adolin and Shallan together. Shallan and Kaladin becoming besties and depending on each other and sharing stuff is much more attractive than yet another love triangle.

I chose Truthwatcher, definitely. I love the surges, because while I have a creative mind like Shallan, I don't have her memory or her courage to use it in the way she does. I also love learning. Not school or research necessarily, but just the idea and methods and action of learning in all ways. I've had to restrain myself in the giving aspect, and I have a lot of tact that mostly means I just stay silent. I'm also secretive and quiet. All in all, I can't think of a better order for me. I don't know if that's good or not. 

\Lightweaver would be my second. I am great at lying but very introspective and strive to help those around me reach their potential. I also participate in most Arts. 

Thank you for the help! I'm glad there's not a lot of conflict, that just means this is a good group.

 That is a question I had: what are the uses of the user pages? 

A live action of SA would be amazing if they waited and had the right technology. We're getting there- by the time it might be realistic for them to begin catching up with the books by doing a live action show, it might just be possible to succeed in showing the amazing magic system and fights. And who knows, by then it might be easier to go outside the box with the style and length of episodes. 

That being said, I think animation might also be a viable option. However, I don't believe an anime is necessarily the right way to go. Animation and Anime need not be the same- something that is done in animation but not necessarily the style and method of anime might be closer to an interpretation I would enjoy. It would also allow for something that matches the art style and feeling that SA already has. Moving away from that and into the pretty set various stylistic choices of anime might make the show more jarring.

Something I would like to note here, just having finished rereading the series, is that I believe Vin stopped using a coppercloud once she became Elend's bodyguard.