IvoryRoad

What really caught my attention most was how Jek was sent to assassinate Shallan and her family, but not Talshekh. if she existed in the story at this point. Which she may very well not have. Hehe.

It's been a while since I read WoK, so correct if I'm wrong when I say Shallan's father was involved with the Ghostbloods. I wonder what, exactly, they're doing, and why Talshekh's family needs to die.

And Brendan, I thought the bit on the roof was written in a confusing way, but I got the impression that he just climbed up. And Shinovar is completely protected by mountains from highstorms - it doesn't surprise me that they can build tall wooden palaces. Might be hard to defend in a siege, though.

I used to have two pet rats and I don't fuss over spiders too much, what I hate are wasps and bees. Well wasps mostly, but it's kind of hard to tell the difference when they're buzzing around you. Wasps are jerks.

I got stung twice in one summer when I was 9.

I have collected 4 bee/wasp stings in my life. I'm allergic, but not in the bloating-up epipen-needed way. I got stung on my left hand for #3, and the hand became at least twice its normal size. That was the worst...

I think the allergy has diminished, though. Most recently, I was hiking in South Carolina and got stung on the calf. The swelling was much less intense, although for me that basically means it didn't make my leg look like a balloon.

Basically, what happens now is I swell in a circle the size of a large orange around the sting, the swollen area becomes stiff and hard, and then it itches like crazy. The sting doesn't go away for two weeks.

The effect is like a supersized mosquito bite, which I am allergic to also in a similar - although much less dramatic - way. It really made living in Florida a pain at times.

I've developed a bee-sense. I'm extremely proficient at detecting and evading the little creatures.

I'm going to switch from the topic of ranting about parents to say,

There is a bloated dead rat in the vent hose behind my dryer. I know this because I unfastened the vent hose from the dryer to see if I could figure out what was causing the smell. If it were a normal dead rat I could probably deal with it myself--I've cleaned up the presents my cats brought me, after all--but well, concentrated hot moist air has a negative effect on rat corpses and this thing has swollen up to the size of the vent hose and eeegh. I would not do very well in a zombie apocalypse, okay? But it should be okay, because I live in an apartment and they have maintenance people who are supposed to deal with stuff like this. Only they haven't. I told them about it yesterday and they still haven't sent anyone over yet. We've got all the windows open for ventilation (and thus the AC is off, so as not to be throwing money out those open windows) and it's already almost 90F here and seriously, if they do not send someone by this afternoon I'm gonna have to call an outside service because I really don't think I can work up the nerve to deal with it myself. The apartment people probably think I'm some weak-willed housewife freaking out over a dried-up dead mouse but this is a huge, bloated dead rat and ... it's just really disgusting okay?

I hate rats. Some people freak out about spiders - I've always thought they were a bit freaky looking, but I don't have any problems killing them.

No, what really freaks me out is rats. I cannot stand the creatures. It makes me shiver thinking about them. I'm like Indiana Jones' dad...

Ivory, my comment was intended to be humorous. It's your story: if you have to have something, then you have to have it. Our role is to give our reactions, it is up to you to figure out how to use it.

As for lines, there was mine above, if you feel like getting revenge against me.

Yeah, I know. I was being intentionally hyperbolic. Y'all are cool kids.

“‘nother round!”

Although the patron yelled his request, Vlasa could barely hear him over the off-key singing that was happening near the hearth. Not that she truly needed to hear: she owned this alehouse, and her business sense was keener than any sentry’s ear. There was coin to be had.

Hehehe. *palm rubbing*

Actually, I like this quite a bit. A few minor quarrels (cwutididthar?...i...nevermind)- I feel like "There was coin to be had" is some kind of cliche. Not that I could actually tell you where I heard it before. As an alternate possibility, I could be clinically insane.

"Although the patron yelled his request, Vlasa could barely hear him over the off-key singing that was happening near the hearth."

This feels like the sentence is more complex than it needs to be. The "although" is, I think, unnecessary, as well as the sentence structure that results from it. I'll try a little rewrite:

"Vlasa could scarcely hear the shouted request over the off-key singing that was happening near the hearth."

I also feel an inexplicable desire to come up with a more descriptive verb than "happening", but none come to mind right now, so I suppose it'll do.

Harrumph.

I'll test it on some family/friends.

Anyone else got a line for us?

Ah, well if quarrels are as important to your story as spren were to tWok, then by all means

GAH! Understand me. IT CANNOT BE AN ARROW. OTHERWISE I SHALL BE ANNOYED.

It must be a quarrel.

Not because it's super important to the story, but because I don't want arrows.

ALL I WANT IS VALIDATION...

Ivoryroad, where is this write-up I'd like to read it. Also Kelsier doesnt need the newer metals, in terms of raw combat power the only one thats adds anything to the mistborn is duraluminium and thats not much of an advantage against these fighters. Kelsiers experience wins out of Elends knowledge of the new metals and greater power for sure, Vin would be an interesting comparison I think she would do well in general better, but coming up against Wayne in this mix, Kelsiers greater skill at pushing and pulling on metals again wins out.

It's on my USB drive! But I'm on a new laptop and I don't have Office yet so I can't access the file. I should get Office within the week and then i'll slap it up here for y'alls enjoyment.

Just to be clear, what is proper and what is prudent are different things. Perhaps I am just grossly underestimating people, but I'd think most would wonder why verbal arguments are being hurled against the barricade. The martial definition of quarrel isn't well known, in my estimation. Quarrel might be a technically correct term, but if it confuses readers, it should go. But, it is your choice as to how much you want to trust your readers.

That said: a quarrel is a specific type of crossbow bolt, but not all bolt are quarrels. In a similar manner, a bolt is a specific type of arrow, but it is still an arrow.

I think with context, it should be fairly simple to understand after a certain point. I spent the first few chapters of TWoK trying to figure out what the devil a spren was supposed to be, but eventually I got an idea.

Meaning, if I describe it as "a sharp, fletched quarrel", the clues should nudge the reader to think "Oh, like an arrow", but it should still maintain individual identity, because it has differing features when compared to your standard fantasy arrow.

Note, also, that this only has to work in the prologue, because once the main character is introduced to them, there's an "instruction" sequence that goes over the weapons and the quarrels in some detail. This is the only scene where we see them used before then.

You might notice, I've grown rather fond of "quarrel". I'll quarrel for quarrel all day long.

I'd agree with Reader that there are too many adjectives. Actually, for quick action, it is too wordy in general. I struck out the ones I think could easily go.

I think there is also a problem with tenses (though good lord, tenses are annoying things, so I might be wrong). I think that, basically, you are having the spray of wood chips happen concurrently or before the arrow hits the barricade, not as a result of. Likewise, the arrow is burying itself in the wood before it has penetrated. Combining a past tense in the independent clause with an imperfect tense in the dependent clause skews the meaning of when events occur (it makes something in the present occur before or at the same time as something in the past).

Regarding word choice, I suspect most people aren't familiar with the arrow-ish definition of "quarrel," and so that might confuse.

And finally, I thought Aaron was already behind the barricade (as indicated by the arrow coming within an inch of his sternum after it hits the barricade and punches through). So why is he dropping behind it again? Do you mean that he is falling further back from it?

Yeah, that's typically a problem I have at the beginning of a work. I try too hard.

Actually, I specifically chose to call it a quarrel. The weapons they're using have very little in common with your standard bow and arrow, other than the fact that they both fire fletched, sharp projectiles. They're more in the vein of crossbows in terms of power, and I'm pretty sure "bolt" or "quarrel" is the proper term for a crossbow projectile. In my mind, an arrow has not nearly enough power to punch laterally through a thick wooden barricade, unless it's falling from above.

Not sure where the tense error was, but maybe it'll be easier to fix after cutting out the adjectives...

What I was trying to get across is that he was behind the wall, but looking over, so he was exposed. Then he drops back into safety. Maybe I should say "drop back below" or something in that direction, indicating downward movement.

"Aaron Barille didn't even have time to comprehend the steely blur that hurtled toward his position before it blasted into the thick wooden barricade that served as his cover, spraying his face with a cloud of wood chips."

This is a line from the prologue, which actually has little to do with the tale's main character at this point, but the events in the prologue will form a major plot development later.

The context:

"Aaron Barille didn't even have time to comprehend the steely blur that hurtled toward his position before it blasted into the thick wooden barricade that served as his cover, spraying his face with a cloud of wood chips. The cruelly thin quarrel penetrated the wall, burying itself up to its precision-forged fletching, coming within an inch of his sternum.

He promptly dropped back behind the barricade, swearing at no one in particular, and belly-crawled to the left."

It's not as unique an opening as I generally prefer, but it pretty much has to open like this for the plot to work properly. I'd appreciate any advice on sprucing it up a little.

1) Why Kelsier? Why not Vin or Elend? Vin was arguably more powerful than Kelsier and she was definitely more talented with her abilities than he was. Kelsier struggled when fighting half a dozen haze killers while Vin killed dozens if not hundreds of them when she attacked Cett's Keep in Luthadel. Elend was definitely more powerful than Kelsier and would probably fare better in this type of scenario.

The first statement is debatable. Vin was more skilled in combat overall, though this was a side effect of her close link to Preservation, but even Vin maintained that Kelsier had manipulated Steel and Iron better than any allomancer she had ever seen. Elend, I think, would actually go down quite easily. Brute strength is not enough to win, and I never got the impression that he was anything more than a marginally skilled allomancer.

Why Dalinar? Adolin was the most talented warrior with shard plate and blade. If we're going to give Mistborn, Shard Bearers and AOL characters a chance to win, why not choose the most talented and powerful members from these stories? I don't really have a problem with Wax being there; you could argue he wasn't the most powerful/likely character to win from the book but that arguement is subjective and not worth going too in depth over.

Actually, Dalinar acknowledged that Adolin was the best with the Blade and that no one could match him in a duel, but Adolin also said at some point that Dalinar was at home in the Plate in ways that no one else was. It's pretty even-handed, although Adolin is younger, I'll concede that.

Szeth fought Gavilar in an environment that heavily favored him and yet he nearly lost. Dalinar would defintely win in a one on one scenario with Szeth.

This isn't a one on one scenario. This is a four-man brawl.

Kelsier and duralumin are mentioned a lot in this thread, but he never used it and would be more likely to make a mistake using it than use it effectively in a fight. He could use all of his steel or pewter on accident and at that point he is effectively dead.

I don't think Kelsier should even be allowed to use any metals he didn't know existed before the end of FE.

This has been touched on but I want to emphasize it. Atium is an extermely fast burning metal. Kel or whichever mitborn using it will run out after a couple of minutes. I justify this from WOA. The very large bead of it that Zane gave to Vin was "supposed to burn for about 3 minutes".

You don't exactly need a lot of time to slaughter large amounts of people with a few minutes of atium. No matter how skilled they are. An atium burner is quite nearly invincible to even one who is familiar with its effects, let alone Wax, Szeth, or Dalinar, who have never heard of such a metal.

Wax only has surprise on his side to survive here. Once he shoots his gun the others should realize his strength and be able to counter it.

It's not just about the gun. The havoc he can wreak with his steelpush + weight is awe-inspiring (see climax of AoL). That, I think, is the sole factor that elevates Wax to the level of the others.

All in all I feel that with the characters used, Dalinar would most likely win. Anything could happen so it's not definite. I think coins and bullets will affect his plate, but it will take a lot to break his plate. Long before that happens Dalinar will learn their strengths and destroy them. Put Vin or Elend in there and that would defintely change things up.

I'm not certain how much force is required to break a plate. In TWoK, Dalinar gets hammered repeatedly by footmen with weapons, smacking him over and over and over until pieces crack. Obviously, a lot of force, but then again it's extremely difficult to hit the exact same spot on the armor over and over again, particularly in a combat situation where you're panicked about your imminent death at any possible moment at a flick of the shardblade.

The point is, the net force is dispersed across the armor. Bullets have a much more concentrated force at the point of impact, something I think is precisely the tool to use for breaking Shardplate quickly(apart from your own Blade, of course).

In the writeup I did, standard bullets gave Dalinar pause, but they weren't dramatically damaging. But once Wax loads a Pewterarm Hazekiller round and slams a megapush into it, Dalinar gets quite a wallop.

Another key factor to remember is Dalinar's limited mobility compared to the other three. Apart from enhanced jumping, Dalinar is tied to the ground, while all three of the others may fly this way and that, Wax and Kelsier needing metal anchors, Szeth needing literally nothing but stormlight. When Szeth fought Gavilar, it was in close quarters. He didn't have nearly enough room to maneuver so as to keep out of Gavilar's reach. In an open arena, Shardbearers are extremely disadvantaged. I tried to balance this in the writeup by including buildings for cover, but there is no such thing as a perfectly fair scenario for everyone.

Welcome to the forums! Sorry if I seem harsh, but these are just opinions.

Anyone interested in seeing my write-up? I tried to be fair, but inevitably someone's favorite character will not act in a way that they may wish they had. Such is the nature of a fanfiction...

make him do your cooking the next night in exchange. Then at least you get to be lazy two nights in a row for no extra cost.

Lol true that. I don't really have much of an excuse to be spending money on eating out at all. It's not TOO often, though...

I'm going to do a write-up of this battle as I see it. No one will know of the others' capabilities at the beginning, but they all know that the others are extremely dangerous, so they play it cautiously at first, trying to get a feel for things. The arena is a little town in the Roughs. Not much metal, but a bit, and some decent maneuvering possibilities and vertical movement, and some cover for the more CQC oriented people coughDalinar.

I'll post it up, too, if you like. Obviously I already know who will win, but this could potentially swing many directions based on luck or certain decisions being made without context.

Good LORD, man! Just because I'll occasionally spring for your lunch doesn't mean you get a free meal every week. I'm way too susceptible to guilting.

Oh, we're going out to dinner. You don't have any money? Eeeeemmmm FINE I'll pay for you.

Sigh..

Guys, this is Brandon Sanderson we're talking about. HE DOES NOT MAKE MISTAKES. C'mon. Let's be real.

In all seriousness, I think we don't know nearly enough about the details of Inquisi-steel to know for sure whether this was just a mistake or not. I personally align with the theory that tin enhanced his ability to discern changes in the pattern of the metal plate. It may never have been mentioned before, simply because no other VPC in the series has the savant-level required to even approach the point where they could "read" an uneven surface with a steelburn.

The line about the dark might be iffy though. Can you quote that for us?

Atium is *easy*; bullet-time was old-hat in video games seven years ago. Just add an "atium shadow" effect and you're golden. As for Lurching and Coinshotting, I seriously doubt having to pause the action every time I want to get to a rooftop would be fun. I suppose they could drastically reduce the number of metal anchor points in the game environments so they'd be few enough for the player to keep track of but again, not book-accurate.

For combat alone, Iron/Steel Allomancy is totally doable; awesome even. You burn iron and watch the blue lines spring out every which way. The moving ones double as radar because they signify mobile enemies. The static ones signify anchor points of Mistborn parkour. The difficulty comes from doing both. Now factor in moving objects (arrows, enemy coin, swords, breakable environments) all while managing your other metals. It gets pretty hectic.

I think the best option for, at least, allomantic travel, was already offered. The game calculates anchor points for you, and all you have to do is point where you want to go and either push or pull. If it's possible, it will happen, if not, you stand there like an idiot.

Say you run through an area, and there is a constant feedback of anchor points emanating from your chest (blue lines, obviously). Point and push. The anchor lines being used turn a different color or something as you fly, and you're free to look around while flying as long as you keep holding the push button.

Once the momentum/anchor points get out of range, repeat.

Combining that with combat would be tricky, though. Gotta hand that one to you.

Recall that Wax is thinking about density as far as his body not being perforated by bullets went, as I commented in this post.

Yeah. That particular branch of discussion has been just about talked empty.

I think that nausea could be something easily trained out of yourself. If you do something enough, soon your body adapts to it.

You could blow in the opposite direction you wanted to travel. As long as there's no wind, you could pull it off. I can see it now... PUFF-MAN. You know it's him because you hear him coming, on account of the heaving breaths he has to take.

Tin Allomancy and Chromnium Feruchemy would make an excellent sniper. uber-sight for targeting and luck for precise hitting.

Relatedly, do you think a double Tin could compound eyesight enough to become a sort of human telescope?

And have you even considered how useful a Double Zinc could be?

Finally, some names:

Double Gold: Deathless.

Double Iron: Crusher

Ah, are we making names for compounders too now? In that case, my only request is that we make double pewter=Hulk. Please, I beg you.

Do you guys have all the feruchemical properties memorized? I'm not even close. Lol

I was just thinking the other day about how absolutely terrifying an iron compounder could potentially be, particularly in the modern day. Obviously, a compounder of any kind is a force to be reckoned with anyway, but imagine a terrorist with iron. Make yourself weigh a crapton, then yank a plane right out of the sky. Would render airport security completely obsolete. Heck, imagine how much of a logistics nightmare this could cause our navy and air force.

Actually, for this very reason, I got thinking about how radically allomancy has the potential to alter our concepts about technology and a developing military. What kind of adjustments would need to occurto ensure your armed forces' effectiveness against a single man who can destroy their transport with a flick of his mind?

Obviously, Brandon, will come up with something, or else he'll avoid war entirely, what with there only being one known nation as we stand.

It's also possible that the rules apply differently to humans as opposed to anything else.

Kind of like how humans are just about the only thing on Roshar that doesn't have a spren, or that balefire vaporises an entire human (or Trolloc or Myrdraal, who are the same as humans for my current purpose) but cuts through inanimate matter.

This still doesn't explain the accuracy problems associated with pushing.

Maybe it can, but nobody's figured this out yet.

Seems like the kind of thing one would experiment with. In fact, I think it might be occurring instinctively, anyway; Wax uses steel to enhance his shots often, and pushing on a bullet that is not perfectly lined up - even by a hair's breadth - with his COG would throw the shot off substantially. It's impractical in combat to take the time to line up shots with such precision.

Can you cite to wherever it says that that pulls can only be attached to an object's center of mass? I know that it is drawn to the Lurcher's center of mass, but I'm not familiar with where the books say that an object can only be Pulled from its center of mass.

See, that's what I'm wondering. It's clear from the books that a push or pull is possible outside the point indicated by the AIL's location, but how is that location determined? I think it would lend a certain symmetry to allomancy if the line simply connects the burner's COG to the anchor's. But when the burner chooses to push on the edge of a bar, rather than against the AIL, he can do this as well. The question is, at what point does this leave the instinctual realm and require specific focus? I think Vortaan hit it right on the head, actually. Against a cluster of coins, a "blanket push" will interact along the AIL, toward the COG, requiring minimal concentration. But when more specific pushes are desired, pushes and pulls can be manipulated at will.

Which rather defeats the purpose of my OP. I feel rather foolish, all of a sudden. Thanks for the input, folks. Nothing to see here.

EDIT: actually, I just thought of something rather interesting. Why isn't it possible,then, for an allomancer to funnel his push or pull through a part of his body that is not the COG? Seems rather unfair that it can be done to anchors, but not the burner himself.

Okay. When an allomancer burns iron or steel, he/she can push or pull on a metal source. The force is directed straight through the allomancer's center of gravity. This we know.

But how does this principle apply to anchors?

The center of gravity is a single point in the metal source, right? Allomantic indicator lines (let's call them AILs), I would imagine, connect the allomancer's center of gravity with the anchor's, giving them a visual frame of reference to know where they're going to fly when they burn. The AILs are always described as straight lines, never wedge-like or any other shape. Some are thicker, indicative of the anchor's strength, but I don't think they ever get super wide - this is a detail that Brandon would mention, I think.

Essentially, the sum of these facts is that a single push or a pull against one given anchor should have only ONE possible direction of motion, along the vector denoted by the AIL. A principle like this is easy to ignore, since with small anchors, there's never enough distance between the anchor's center of gravity and its boundaries to be noticable. Coins and window latches will all move basically the same.

The confusion I have is when a longer anchor comes into play. Think of a spire on Kredik Shaw. Vin and the Inquisitors use them as anchors many times in the trilogy, both for pushing and pulling. But, despite their larger size compared to a coin or latch, shouldn't the metal spire only have one center of gravity to push or pull against? I could imagine a long line of points along the spire's "axis" of gravity, straight up the middle, but the result of this would be an AIL that begins at the allomancer's COG and expands in a wedge shape, a continuous triangle, from the top of the spire to the bottom. Come to think of it, though, in the universe, all planets are round. A spire or elongated object, given time, will eventually collapse inward, until its shape roughly reflects an equal gravitational pull from all angles toward one COG.

So how can an allomancer pull him/herself to the top of a spire, or to any point they please, when there is only one COG to interact with?

The idea crops up again, somewhat, in AoL, when Wax pushes himself along the rail lines. He describes his actions as a "continuous" push behind him - but against what COG? I suppose a railway track is actually a bunch of linked pieces of metal, not a continuous chunk, and Wax could simply be pushing against individual pieces of the rail.

Regardless of the explanation for the incident in AoL, this leads us to an interesting thought experiment:

Imagine a really long cylinder of metal laying on flat ground. Say five miles long. It is continuous - that is, there are no seams or individual parts to the cylinder. An allomancer in the exact center pushes himself along the pole, from the COG. At what point - if any - will the allomancer stop moving? Can he push on a point that is not the COG? If he was at the end of the cylinder, out of range of the central COG, could he allomantically interact with the cylinder at all? This would be rather contradictory, IMO.

I'm open to anyone with a better understanding of physics or allomancy than I to submit a possible solution to my confusion. Sorry if the post seems a little bit rambling; I had some thoughts in the middle of writing them down.