DariusJenai

I don't think Vin would consider herself a nonpracticing Sliverist. She's probably the closest to being a true agnostic, even if she did come to be a revered figure in a couple of the new religions.

I too would be interested in seeing what the Terris religion became. As far as we know, all of its prophecies were fulfilled at the end of HoA. I could see the Path growing out of some of the core tenants of the Terris religion however. It has that love of knowledge that the Terris people carried.

I think Sazed probably just made it so snapping doesn't require getting the crap beat out of you or similar nastiness.

If he did though, he must have made there be some sign. Otherwise every single person would have to be tested on every single metal to determine if they were a misting or not. While I agree that Sazed probably didn't like the current method of Snapping, I can't see him replacing it with pure guesswork, especially since Pewter at minimum is toxic if not burned.

Edit: Just had an alternative thought. Would Chromium mistings only be able to affect another allomancer, or could anyone swallow metals, see if they could burn some, and then have a Leech zap them? That could potentially remove the health problem of testing for the ability. A somewhat less expensive (if somewhat more disgusting) way would be to have someone swallow a bead, see if they could burn it, then vomit it back up. Little to no loss of actual metals would take place, removing the expense and health problems. Of course, then you get to go into testing knowing that someone else has probably thrown up the bead of metal you're swallowing.

Ok, in that case I withdraw my objection to Tan being an Electrum Misting and will inflate it to the 'most likely' scenario that would give us the results we got.

I've always been somewhat iffy on Electrum. It's paired with gold, so I picture its effect as Gold-like seeing of an alternate self, rather than an Atium-like next few second glimpse. I need to go grab my copy of HoA and find the section where Elend is thinking about its effects again.

Hmm, it's possible. I wonder if a misting could burn the Atium alloy of their metal. Like could a Tineye burn the Atium-tin alloy? Or is there another set of mistings out there specifically for Atium?

Presumably they could, otherwise there would be large numbers of people Snapping that wouldn't be able to burn any of the current metals. Alternatively, since it requires 2 Allomantic metals, the entire second set would only be burnable by a Mistborn.

actually I'm pretty sure that Brandon has said that Lerasium alloys simply create Mistings of the metal alloyed in the same way pure Lerasium creates Mistborn.

They do, but it's mentioned in the annotations that this isn't the 'primary' use of Lerasium, and it would have a different effect for someone who could already burn that metal. (specifically it says that pure Lerasium would have a different effect for someone who was already Mistborn, but I'm expounding.)

This idea makes some of the most sense to me. It would explain why there was a Lerasim bead at the well when Vin and Elend were there (all ways bothered me. Seemed to be a bit of a stretch that TLR just "missed" one).

I think it was mentioned in the annotations (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that TLR saved a bead just in case he lost his powers with the next cycle of the well. That would also lend credence to him having eaten one the first time.

So, it's been mentioned that Atium can be alloyed with the other 16 metals to create a new set of Allomantic metals.

I've had some interesting thoughts on those running around my brain since I first read Final Empire. I'd like to put down some thoughts and see what the community thinks about them.

First, since we're only given one example of any metal alloyed with Atium, I'm probably reaching into Wild and Strange territory, and I've frankly probably drawn some connections where none exist. That being said, here's my thoughts.

Atium Alloys swap the Internal/External component of whichever allomantic metal they are alloyed with.

Malatium, which is atium alloyed with gold, allowed Vin to view the past selves of TLR and the Inquisitor. Since gold does the same as an Internal metal, that's where the original thought came from.

Expounding from that conclusion, Tin/Atium would allow one to enhance the senses of a second person, and Zinc/Atium would allow one to Riot their own emotions.

Even more interesting, perhaps this would allow a Bendalloy/Atium alloy to speed time solely for the person using it, instead of creating a bubble. Sliders could become speed demons, and Pulsers would be the ideal choice for slow-boat space voyages in the third Mistborn trilogy.

I'd originally had some thoughts that perhaps Lerasium alloys would reverse the Push/Pull factor, but the metals seem to be pretty well paired as far as pushing/pulling is concerned. The few that aren't paired would be fairly useless as the opposite (Tin/Pewter would presumably supress senses/strength for example). So the only benefit I could see if that was the case is that you could have someone who was a Misting having at least apparent access to 2 Metals. For example, a Coinshot burning Lerasium/Steel in addition to Steel would be able to both Push and Pull on metals, but not have any of the other skills of a Mistborn.

I always thought of Electrum being more like gold, showing you drastically different versions of yourself. So an Electrum burning Tan would see himself as a killer, or a happy mortician, but probably not with the immediacy to prevent a bullet to the head.

Okay, so I just re-read the passage and Wax clears anxiety from his mind so that he doesn't shake. What if Bloody Tan wasn't a Rioter, he was a Soother? He dampened everything but Wax's confidence and then used that against him? Wax only thoughtthat he could make the shot, so in reality it wasn't as impressive a move by Tan as we're led to believe (since Wax is the narrator of the chapter).

Iffy. We're told that Wax actually has made similar shots, so his confidence would be rightly placed. And doesn't cover the fact that Wax fired when Lessie gave him the signal. I think the options are either going to come down to: A) Stored Speed, or 2) A normal who was manipulated to get Wax to be where he needed to be to stop Miles.

Keep in mind, Brandon confirmed that Sazed changed the way Snapping worked. Perhaps now when you Snap, you know automatically which types of metals you can burn? Would keep valuable metals from being wasted. Alternatively, since Snapping itself is pretty recognizable, you just work your way up to more expensive metals, stopping when you find which one you can use.

As for Wayne's gift with accents and languages, I expect it's just a friendly nature, combined with many years of disguises and scouting while he was a thief that lets him do it.

I guess I'm starting to like the Rioter idea more and more. An experienced manipulator of other people's emotions might be more inclined to think of people as "just puppets." He'd also be fairly confident in his ability to manipulate. If he flared zinc and started moving at the same time, he could have provoked the shot.

Except the timing of the shot was actually chosen by Lessie's triple blink. If there was some way he could see her eyes, maybe through a reflection or something, he would know exactly when Wax was going to fire without needing any allomantic aid.

That could also mean that he had one of the Kandra that don't follow harmony visiting him, since he saw both "Marsh" and the "Survivor", though really they could have been anything, even delusions/hallucinations.

That was my thinking as well. The kandra wouldn't even have to necessarily look anything like Kelsier, since if a guy shows up with Death calling himself the Survivor, you're probably going to believe him.

It's not within normal human abilities, though. He reacted to a gunshot before it would be humanly possible to do so. Doing some quick research, the slowest bullet speed I could find was 180 m/s, and the average human reaction time was .2s. That means a slow bullet travels more than 100 feet before the average person could even begin to respond, never mind the additional time to actually turn that reaction into a full body movement. Wax and Tan were on opposite sides of a "small chapel." Call it 30 feet. That gives Tan 0.056 seconds to react and move - almost 4 times faster than a normal person could.

Depends on how carefully Tan was watching. If we assume he reacted to the firing itself, it seems fast. However, if he noticed a 'tell' on Wax, or even just noticed his finger tightening on the trigger, then the needed reaction time is much less, and possibly into the range of normal human. Getting her into the correct spot be should be simple, since he knows Wax has made this shot before, and could anticipate where the bullet would be heading with remarkable accuracy.

I totally thought the bullet deflection only happened on its way out of the bubble. Otherwise the entire idea of dodging bullets via the field kind of goes out the window. You dodge away from where the bullet would go, and suddenly it goes random upon entering the field. That isn't what happened as far as I recall in the book.

Wayne dodges bullets in a somewhat similar manner during the big fight. Put up a bubble, see where the bullets are heading, move somewhere else, drop bubble. Repeat. The bullets never actually hit the bubble from either side, so there's no deflection, just someone who suddenly isn't where they were when you fired.

However, I'm going to quote Tan himself, and agree that Marsh/Harmony probably had something to do with it. It's a collection of his talking while Wax is searching for him in the chapel.

I have seen God, lawkeeper. I have seen Death himself, with the nails in his eyes. I have seen the Survivor, who is life. Other men wonder, but I know. I know I'm a puppet. We all are. Someone else moves us.

Possibly just the ramblings of a crazy man, but since we know that Marsh at least actually is out there with nails in his eyes, it makes me wonder if this was all part of the setup.

I've tried to put together everything we know about Trelagism in its wiki page. It's not much, admittedly, but that's pretty much all we have.

It's worth pointing out on the Wiki that Miles refers to his religion as Trellism, not Trelagism. The only actual link is the name of the god Trell. They may indeed be totally separate religions, linked only by the name of a common god. It's probably going too far to call Miles a Trelagist.

Wait, are the Pathian earrings Hemalurgically charged?

I thought they were supposed to be more of a symbolic connection with the heroes of the past, and I didn't see any evidence that they were hemalurgic spikes.

How has Magneto not conquered the world yet, with a power like that?

It basically takes the entire X-Team to stop him, and at one point he used his powers to successfully blackmail the entire planet into letting him create his own country.

Hmm. Perhaps he can have his cake and eat it, too.

By cake, do you mean....

Since Marsh gave Marasi the book to have Wax read, I'd agree that most of their disagreements probably revolve around exactly how hands-on to be. Of course, Harmony's hands-off methods seemed to work quite well for Wax. And Harmony probably has a better idea of how things will turn out for any given method than Marsh.

No clue on whether 300 years is enough time for Sazed to start feeling the changes of the Shards, and especially how holding 2 shards (since Harmony isn't actually a Shard of its own), would change him. I think his Harmony method is probably more of a personal choice than the nature of his Shards. And given what he went through with TLR, Preservation and Ruin, its a natural choice to take a more hands-off approach.

Darn you for having perfectly rational explanations for why Steris is better for Wax! Marasi for life.

Don't get me wrong, I think he'd be happier with Marasi. They seem to have more in common, and I think Wax is more attracted to her than to Steris "affairs are in the contract" Harms. But Steris is the better choice for him as the head of the Ladrian House. Especially since most of his close relatives are at least legally dead. Succession is still important.

This is one thing that bugged me about Miles.

I thought that this was the manner in which it worked, but when Miles used his Augery, it was written as if he hardly ever used it.

This makes me think that either he wasn't actually burning his goldminds, or burning a metalmind overrides any allomantic effect of burning a metal in favor of activating the feruchemical effect at an amplified degree.

That bugged me too. Especially since there's the one part where it specifically talks about him viewing his alternate selves by burning gold. But it also said he needed a constant supply of gold to stay immortal, so obviously he was burning it. I finally came to the conclusion that burning a feruchemical storage must change the effects of that metal to release its feruchemical property instead of its allomantical ability.

By re-reading the fight between Vin and TLR, it seems that he is burning his atium to stay young, but he doesn't seem to have the precognition normally granted by atium. Thoughts, opinions?

Ah, I just got him to sign my copy at the con, so I didn't go to the off-site signing.

Sel is Elantris, right?

So the form-based Invesiture are probably AonDor and its Dahkor equivalent.

I don't think TLR would need to compound his Investiture however. He would be the strongest Allomancer around just by virtue of:

1. Being an original generation Mistborn, without the dilution of years.

2. The ability to compound any of his metals, and to (possibly) enhance the compounding with Duralumin.

I asked Brandon about this at his Eagle Eye Books signing during Dragon*Con 2010. (Although you worded it much better than I did at the time.)

Hmm, I was at D*C 2010. I don't remember that question, although I'm glad to hear it. It's been bugging me since I finished the series.

The belief that Mistings and Feruchemists are "special" appears to be something that Miles used to rationalize his actions. He had special placing as a magic user and thus was allowed to do things that others can't. Trellism is in the Words of Founding (read: Sazed's copperminds), and as a pre-Ascension religion would have very little to say about Allomancy.

Like I said, this is why I find Trellism to be the most interesting of the mentioned religions. The way Miles thoughts are worded, it seems like Trellism specifically mentions at least one of the Metallic Arts.

The Words of Founding had even included a lengthy explanation of Trellism and its teaching, which proved men like Miles were special.

So, it could have been talking about Feruchemisty, which was at least known among the Terris, or Allomancy, which was according to Sazed exceptionally rare (maybe making it a good candidate for a religion based around its 'specialness'?).

That being said, I think you're probably right about Sliverism being the continuation of the Steel Ministry. It makes sense that the Yomen family would stay with it, and it makes sense that Ironeyes, as the last remaining Inquisitor, would be an important figure.

As for Marsh, I think he still talks with Harmony, and the two of them are working together towards some goal. And they seem to be working together more or less as equals.

For me, or for Wax?

For me, it's a hard choice. Both have the intelligence, but Steris seems to have a rather large attitude that I find off-putting. Marasi on the other hand seems to be a bit on the self-deprecating side, and having done that before, it's not a path I'd want to go down again.

For Wax, I think Steris really is the best choice. She's going to be a good foundation in his city-life, and she has the benefit of getting the contract that would keep his house solvent. She has a skillset he lacks, and house marriages are often more political than socially based. If he was heading back into the Roughs, Marasi would be the choice.

I had originally associated Ironeyes with TLR while reading too. But the connection to Marsh's name, and the fact that Wax referred to TLR as the Sliver while going over the basics of Compounding made me think they were different. Plus, considering Marasi directly called him that in the Epilogue, made me decide that Ironeyes = Marsh. Plus, if you think about it, most of the survivors of the final battle, and the Church of the Survivor in particular, would likely have thought of Marsh as a demon/devil figure, considering he's both an Inquisitor, and was directly involved in Ruins attempts to end the world. When you add in the fact that TLR himself didn't have spikes through his eyes, it made more sense for it to be an Inquisitor, of which Marsh was presumably the only one still alive.

Sliverism in that case would probably represent the few who knew that Marsh was actually fighting for the side of good, and maybe even his part in helping stop Ruins plans at the end.

So, there seem to be a few religions that have popped up in AoL.

1) The Church of the Survivor seems to still be going strong. Based primarily on the teaching of Kelsier. Followed by Steris and possibly Marasi in AoL.

2) The Path of Harmony (name assumed, as Path and Pathian are the names given). Seems to be based on the morals of Sazed. Studies the information left behind by Sazed from the pre-Final Empire religions. Followed by Wax in AoL.

3) Sliverism is mentioned only once, and that they revere Ironeyes. Followed by the Yomen family in AoL.

4) Trellism seems to believe that Mistings, etc are special. Followed by Miles in AoL.

Notable Thoughts:

1) Ironeyes was Marsh's nickname. He appears to have become a symbol of Death in at least one of the main religions, and is referred to as such by Marasi, but has followers of his own in Sliverism.

2) The Path seems to be based on Sazed's teachings, with Vin's earring and mist-thinking added in.

3) Trell was the name of a God in a religion that Sazed tried to teach Vin. The religion was based on the stars, and was important in allowing Sazed to move Scadrial back into its proper orbit after taking the Shards. That particular religion was called Trelagism, however, and had no known thoughts on the Metallic Arts. Could be a mutation of the religion, a separate religion that co-opted the Trelagism God (Think Greek/Roman), or an unintentional reuse of the name.

4) Miles claims before/during his death that "the men of gold and red, bearers of the final metal, will come". Unknown if this is a personal belief or a tenant of Trellism.

5) There is an additional group referred to as the "Faceless Immortals, the Hands of Harmony". Unknown who/what these are, presumably a sort of priest/prophet of Sazed/Harmony. My personal theory is a modification of the Kandra, but it's less of a theory and more of an interesting possibility that I would like to be true.

6) The Lord Ruler is specifically referred to as a Sliver (actually the Sliver), indicating at least a minor understanding of some of the Cosmere.

Of all of these, Trellism seems to be the most interesting of the religions to me. It was mentioned in Sazed's copperminds, making it a pre-Final Empire religion. However, it appears to have tenants related to Mistings/Ferrings, of which only Feruchemists were even somewhat well known before Alendi found the Well. I think it most likely that this was a religion founded after Rashek returned from the Well, revering those newly created godlike beings, but before Rashek decided to create his own personal religion in the Steel Ministry. It's also the only presumably pre-Empire religion that is specifically mentioned as still having followers.