Stormlight Cast - Kholins

Oh gee it clashes completely with my idea of Adolin as a poet... I always took him as a terrible, terrible, terrible one.

How can Alethkar most famous illiterate bachelor have actual skills at composing poetry?

It's part of the front... Nobody expects Adolin Kholin of all people to actually be able to compose something half decent, just as nobody expects him to start quoting scriptures and yet he does. 

...

If Zahel came to Roshar 15 years ago, Adolin would have started training with him from age 8.  So that would be 8 years' worth of sword training with an immortal swordsman, enough time to be certain if someone is a polished turd or genuinely talented.   If Dalinar never felt young, holding other people to his standards, no matter their age, sounds like something he would do.   The young Blackthorn from the SA3 preview chapter was in the front line of a battle without Shardplate or Shardblade, and he got his Blade at age 20, so he must have been around 19 or so.  If he could do that, then pre-Vengeance Dalinar would not worry about Adolin's safety too much in a stylised arena duel with judge-referees who stop the fight after 3 pieces of Shardplate are broken.   It's pretty strange how different Adolin is from Dalinar, but then WoB says Adolin takes after his mother, whom Navani has described as not very smart but nice and charming.   If Adolin needs a way to soothe his emotional issues, Renarin should lend him his little metal box.

Forcing the return of Shards really depends on what kind of deal the "giving away" really was, like a conditional loan - you can use my weapons as long as you can fight for me.   I would think that giving away Shards free and clear is very rare, just like winning them in duels, and only happens in inherited Shards.  And if The Rules say that Adolin has to give up his Shards, then it would follow the letter of the law to rid Adolin of his and allow him to accept a returned set.  When did Alethi care about following the spirit of the law as well as the letter?  Even the Skybreakers don't care about that.  In any case, the person doing the judgments would be Adolin's own cousin Elhokar, who wouldn't like weakening his own family but would be boxed into it by the Highprinces.    Adolin's Shards, in any case, would then be forfeited to the crown, and Elhokar could easily add them to the training roster and swap out Gavilar's Plate and Blade to give to Adolin.  Which bypasses all drama about pressuring current Kholin Army Shardbearers or winning more duels wagering Renarin's Shards.  I think everyone is expecting Adolin's fall from grace to be a far fall, but he's a prince and an heir, and Alethkar, like most feudal societies, run on nepotism.  Shardbearers in the warcamps are all related to their highprinces, and the Veden highprince Valam's bastard son is given an important position even though having a darkeyed mother should have made him a weird freak that village kids throw rocks at.

Adolin betting Renarin's Shards makes me wonder if Dalinar knows about it.  He wouldn't approve, since the Codes would say that if an officer should wear his uniform and shouldn't drink alcohol because he must be prepared for battle at any moment, he definitely shouldn't risk losing his weapons.   But he's not in the gossip loop since he's a social pariah who thinks God is talking to him, and I don't think he thought while making plans about duelling that Adolin would be risking any Shards but his own.  Adolin, when you think about it, does the kind of stupid things that people rail on Kaladin for.   Since WoB said it wasn't Odium controlling him, and Wit is the only known allomancer who can Riot emotions so far, it's all him.  

There are ways to beat Shardbearers without having to face them in open combat, if you fight smart and don't bother with honourable tactics.  If you are not a Shardbearer yourself, and find yourself facing one, it's probably better to have a smart plan where you don't have to be in sword's reach of one.    Shardplate is one single piece with the eyeslits as the only opening, but Adolin says the weak points are the front and the back pieces, which make the rest of Plate too heavy to bear if they are smashed and the Stormlight is lost.  An arrow to the eye would work, and so would dropping a Shardbearer off a ledge, like Eshonai or when Elhokar is climbing the rocksin the chasmfiend hunt - he drops 30 feet and Stormlight starts leaking.  Dropping something heavy on them would also work, like Szeth lashing a balcony onto Gavilar.  It would pin them down and give you enough time to stab them in the eye.  So a Shardbearer is invincible in a flat open field, but inside a building, where there are lots of hiding places and the ceilings are too low to wave a Blade around, a normal person would have an advantage.  Which is something that is completely new to Adolin when Szeth busts through the wall and he spends the rest of the evening buzzing on Rosharan caffeine because he's too afraid to sleep.

I noticed that paragraph about Adolin how felt uneasy about highstorms and looked forward to the Weeping, but never read that much into it.  You have to wonder why Brandon put that in, since he usually has a purpose or some sort of deeper significance for the things he writes (unless it's so cool it doesn't need a justification).  Is it because highstorms are something you can't challenge and fight, let alone win against?  

Hm, I have no idea how much Renarin knows or has observed about romantic relationships.  If Shshshsh died when he around 9 years old, he would have been too young to remember or understand much about it how Dalinar acted around his mother.  But even if he has no experiences with courting or seeing it happen, he still notices that Adolin doesn't act the same with the girls he courts as he acts around his brother.  Possibly because he doesn't really treat them like real people, but interchangeable arm candy who respond on cue to compliments about their prettiness.   If Renarin doesn't see that Adolin is apathetic and distant with girls because he doesn't want to share his inner vulnerable side, Renarin can still see that he's not being as careful and caring with them as he is with his own family.   I think one of the reasons why readers get annoyed with Renarin is that his family is completely supportive and loving, and yet he still turned out to be broken, which means it has to be internal and emotional with what we know of the material luxury princes get.   If Elhokar is Dalinar's Tien, then Renarin is Adolin's.    

And Adolin does kiss free hands, and doesn't flinch away when girls touch or hold his arm, like Shallan when they were at their first highstorm viewing wine lounge date.

 

"Thanks," he said, rising, doing up the buttons on his coat.  He kissed Danlan's freehand, waved to the others, and trotted out onto the street.

Chapter 58, WoK.

He has no problem with kissing Navani on the cheek, or her touching him with her gloved/sleeved safehand, which means he has no inherent fear of physical contact.   It could be that he's allergic to PDA and years of being lectured on acting like a proper prince and following the Codes gave him insta-kneejerk blushing reflexes.   Would you think he'd have the same reaction if Shallan kissed him on the cheek inside the carriage (with no Kaladin) while he was dropping her off after a date?  If that situation wouldn't make him blush, then the prospect of beling alone at night with a woman would be something he'd look forward to rather than something that completely terrifies him.

In my experience, people in the early twenties have rarely had serious long-term relationships, or are even looking for them.  Society doesn't expect them to, but it's expected that you know how things work at that age, and have had the minimal amount of practice at it to be socially functional.   Brandon writing characters who have experienced neither long-term relationships nor short-term intimacy but somehow manage to end up with both in the form of one person with the same qualities is a trademark of his.   Did Dalinar ever explain why he wanted Adolin to choose a wife for love, or was it just assumed that he allowed it because his own wife was a love-match?  Because in a feudal world where there is no divorce (otherwise Lin Davar's second wife would have left) letting a first son choose his own wife is very unusual and indulgent.  If Adolin had been settled with a betrothed at age 19 or 20,  he would have been spared the whole confidence destroying parade of revolving-door relationships, and might have even got close to the girl since they wouldn't be able to dump each other so easily.  

Anyone who is shy and inexperienced at 23 does not make it obvious that they are.  if men are men, no matter what universe they're on, making suggestive jokes about it is normal, and you have to join in without showing your discomfort if you don't want to be teased about it.  It just occured to me that if Adolin's "friends" tried to joke him about it, his response would be "I totally have a betrothed, she's from Jah Keved and she's on a boat here...which was supposed to be here a month ago but she's still coming, I swear!".  The Veden betrothed very coincidentally mirrors what the ambiguously existent Canadian girlfriend is in American high school movies where people drink out of red plastic cups.  And Shards would translate very well to varsity letter jackets.

To Danlan

She tells me humility is a virtue,

I say I see it none other but you.

I'm told that other girls are cleverer than her,

To find one I'd have to search all Alethkar.

Though I am known to give no guarantees,

Here I chance upon an opportunity.

Since Danlan has appeared upon the Plains,

This hopeful heart leaps eager at her name.

I think half decent is the best way to describe his poetry.  Any scholar or real poet would be able to see that it's rough and unrefined, but with a naive sort of amateur charm to it.  And it's written to court girls, so quality doesn't even matter, it's the gesture that counts.  If Adolin is the kind of guy who likes art museums and theatre, then it's not hard to imagine that he's had fashionable poetry read to him.  Once you've read or heard enough to understand the structure and style, it's not very hard to write something that sounds about right to those who haven't.

Brandon said Zahel has been to Roshar for about 12 years. He can't have secured himself his position as a swordmastering Ardent within one day, so it is safe to assume he hasn't started teaching Adolin until he was about 12-13 years old. Since Adolin started his training at the age of 6, he must have had other masters prior to Zahel.

This being said, Zahel or no, Adolin still remained a 16 years old inexperienced duelist. I strongly suspect you don't enter the official bouts until you are 16, which would make him rather green. Also, at 16, he wasn't fully grown yet, probably a few inches shorter and likely much less strong.

There is also the fact practically everyone dismiss Adolin's skills: nobody thinks he is as good as he claims, even to this day. If they dismiss him this easily now, how must have they dismiss him then? Adolin Kholin is talented, but how talented can he truly be when he has so little significant victories to his track records?

It could be pre-Vengeance Dalinar wasn't as carrying to his son as he is now, though this is yet to be seen. It could even be he was enthralled in the duel, but based on what we have seen so far, Dalinar seems to have rather preferred steering his son away from his personal habits. He never insisted his son walked into his footsteps onto the battlefield. He allowed him to become a duelist, he allowed him to caroused into his twenties without a wife, he allowed him to be spoiled, but he never allowed him to take one single step towards the shadow of the Blackthorn.

I agree the more we read on the Blackthorn, the more obvious it is Adolin doesn't take after him. He has the same temperament, but it stops there. He loves his father, his hero, he tries to mimic him, but he takes more after his mother. He has a kind spirit, not a warrior's heart.

I once wrote a fic which I ran out of idea for... It had Renarin offer his box to Adolin to help sooth him as he kindly tells him summoning his Blade is torturing the poor dead-spren and he should avoid doing it…. If I recall properly, Adolin burst out about just then.

If the letter of the law is to strip Adolin of his Shards and if he still has a claim on those he won, then wouldn't the letter of the law call for him to surrender ALL of his Shards? The only one free of his hand being his father's former Plate... Besides, what makes us believe Elhokar would be inclined to go lenient on Adolin? Clearly, there is no lost love in between those two and it is very likely Adolin's voluntary imprisonment for Kaladin's shake drew a wedge between them. It was open defiance to a king's decree. It is impossible Elhokar didn't see it as anything less than that. Besides, remember how Elhokar was jealous of Kaladin being a hero? How must he feel to watch his younger cousin, the Golden Boy, so perfect, so talented, riding into battle, respected despite his young age, get all the honors? Dalinar once was jealous of Gavilar. There seem to be nothing else than love and care between Adolin and Renarin, but who's to say Elhokar is not dead jealous of Adolin? I say we have no idea what Elhokar may do and I don't personally trust him. I don't trust he'll see fit to spare his cousin: he may want to get rid of him, just as Dalinar once wanted to get rid of Gavilar.

I expect Adolin to fall hard because so much expectations have been put on his head. His father has built a reputation out of being the most honorable human being on Roshar: the Kohlins can't allow Adolin to walk free unharmed. They will have to make an example out of him if they want to maintain their upper hand. Besides, I think Dalinar is just going to be too angry for a while to do anything else than react harshly.

This being said, Adolin's arc is more interesting if he does fall from grace. Do not forget most people likely want to get a bite out of Adolin: he humiliated them, worst he did it while bragging the whole time. They will want to bring him down. Everyone is jealous of Adolin... He isn't safe.

Dalinar knows about it as he was aware of the wager during the 4 on 1 duel. If he was ill-at-ease with the bets, he had ample time to state so, but I suspect the urge to disarm the other Highprinces supersedes the need to safeguard Renarin's Plate. According the codes, Adolin shouldn't be dueling, much less at a disadvantage, but the Kholins knew of his plans and they approved. Not only Adolin had his father's benediction for the duels, he had the imperative order to "Win Shard for me son.". Such were his thoughts as he walked into the arena. 

I agree Adolin does stupid things, just as Kaladin, the difference is Adolin has been blessed by a crown of luck so far. I bet it won't last: sooner or later, Adolin's impulsiveness is going to put him into serious trouble. People have asked if Adolin has ever been under other influences and the answer was negative. He wasn't. It is all him.

Adolin also says the only time he saw a Shardbearer die on the battlefield, he got surrounded by spearmen. They managed to overwhelm him, they cracked his breastplate: an archer than took him out. I'd say you can definitely take out a Shardbearer, but not without a sound strategy. Disorient him, outnumbered him and you may get through, but there is a reason Shardbearers are practically invincible. If it were easy to kill one, Shards would be passing hands more frequently. Plate also is very resistant: Adolin survives a 50 feet drop after the chasmfiend trust him into the air. His Plate is damaged, but not broken. Though, 40-50 feet seems to be close to the maximum a Shardbearer can withstand without being harmed. Come to think of it, Adolin mentions the warhammer hits hard during the 4 on 1 duel: he can feel the blows, but do they hurt? Does he get bruised when the blows are this hard even if the Plate doesn't break? How about the head? When you take a hit which blows your helmet away, can you get hurt as it shatters?

About combat in closed space, Adolin mentions Shardblades wouldn't be effective in those which is why neither he nor Sadeas think to summon theirs during their final encounter. However, what was new to Adolin mostly was him facing an opponent he was powerless to beat. He’s the nervous/anxious type: it isn’t obvious when you read the book because he buries it deep within a lot of bravado, but it is there in book. How many passages do we have of Adolin reacting by being nervous, feeling ill or having his stomach knot? He took the habit to drink a glass of yellow wine before his duels in order to help him sooth his nerves. He needs to go through a steady ritual to keep himself calm.

Stormfather, his hands were sweating. He hadn’t felt this nervous when riding in battle, when his life was actually in danger.

If you read back the passage prior to the 4 on 1 duel, he gets sweaty as well as he realized he didn’t have Mother’s chain, but he somehow maintain his composure better. Why?

That steadied him. He’s stewed long about that betrayal. It was time, finally, to do something.

 

 

He had a plan. He knew what to expect. He was in control of the situation while, in the first extract, he was walking into his first official bout in years: he was nervous.

Brandon is not into the habit to write useless words. This isn’t his style. Here are a few quotes of Adolin, with respect to Highstorms.

Adolin sat in a high-backed chair, cup of wine in his hands, listening to the highstorm rumble outside. He should have felt safe in this bunker of rock, but there was something about storms that undercut any sense of security, no matter how rational.

 

 

It would also put them out on the Shattered Plains, alone, within days of the date that had been scratched on the walls and floor…. Adolin’s spine crawled.

 

 

It isn’t much, most readers probably never read much into it, but I think it is a clue. Why would Brandon take his time to describe Adolin pre-ritual routine, why would he write down his nervous tic (seriously, check the number of sentences having the words Adolin and nervous grouped together), why would he mentions Adolin’s unease in front of Highstorms? No other characters has expressed any thought whatsoever towards their fear of facing a Highstorm or their unease of having a closed one have visions or how unsecure walking into a forbidden city made them. Only Adolin. He is the only character we have seen express anxiety on various levels.

“Why does it bother you so, son?”

“It’s the idea of you scribbling on the ground,” Adolin said, shivering. “Lost in one of those visions, not in control of yourself.”

 

 

Adolin needs control, stability. Strange as you would expect autistic Renarin to express this sort of behavior not neurotypical Adolin, but the fact remains it is important for him his father is sane. It is important to him his father is in control, because it means he has something solid to rely onto and whenever he loses this rock, he starts to grow anxious.

Besides, he needed its strength. He kept looking over his shoulder, expecting the assassin to be there.

 

 

Therefore, based on my readings, I have determined Adolin has trouble dealing with situations he can’t control. As soon as he has a plan, a goal, a strategy, his anxiety level goes down remarkably fast, but in the absence of one, it starts to rocket. The Highstorms, Sadeas, Urithiru, the visions, his father, duels, in the absence of a clear path, everything is a source of stress to him.

The fear of being afraid.

This is exactly how I currently read Adolin. I’d even go further and say it isn’t so much he loves his father and he would never want harm come his way. I think it may runs deeper: he still needs his father.

I am still unsure as to how much Renarin sees or not. He never foresees Adolin’s friendship problems, not that we are aware of. He notices his brother has trouble keeping up with the girls, but he seems to tease him more than anything. This being said, he does advise him to treat them better, so he has gathered as much.

I agree about why readers get annoyed at Renarin as I sometimes am one of those. I am not currently annoyed at Renarin, but I used to be. I too felt his “break-down” wasn’t plausible enough considering how much love and support he had. The kid was practically awarded anything he ever wished, except the one thing nobody can give him: health and talent at swordsmanship. Everything else, he received, in large quantity. Nobody ever teased him, he just feels useless, quite probably because nobody truly knows what task they could give him considering he can’t be a soldier and he doesn’t want to be an Ardent. He is in an odd position which, combined to his autism, likely put much strain on him. This being said, I still have a hard time reconciling myself with the fact love was not enough to avoid him to break down. I also cannot fathom how one child can grow up so broken down while the other one is completely undisturbed by the events.

Everyone is someone’s Tien…………..

Well, huh, I sure hope he has no issues kissing Navani on the cheek: she is practically his surrogate mother! He looks up to her as a mother, so the lack of blushing here isn’t surprising: you can’t possibly blush when peeking on the cheek your mother… I think Adolin is afraid to appear vulnerable. We see he is afraid of quite a lot of things, anxious, fearful, but he never let it show or so rarely. Everything with Adolin is about maintaining the appearances, the façade, the illusion of unfaltering strength: therefore any action serving to make him appear weak, he shies away. Nobody is ever more vulnerable than through intimacy. A peek on the cheek inside a carriage away from prying eyes, he can manage, but one on the public place, he blushes. A deep kiss in private and he mumbles through it before sinking in, but he doesn’t make the first steps to pass the boundaries he never truly crossed.

My personal experience with inexperienced men within this age range is they wouldn’t indeed display it openly. Some would brag and pretend having lived through more while others would just not talk about it or turn the subject away. Everyone is different, but being inexperienced at an age where your society expects you to be is a source of stress for many, be they men or women. It isn’t surprising Adolin isn’t comfortable with all of it, especially since people expects him to be due to his track record in courtship.

Careful here, I am Canadian, but the analogy holds well.

Oh well it is much better than anything I could have come up with. This isn’t my language so writing poetry truly is beyond me. I agree Adolin seems to have a keen interest in everything artistic related which makes me wonder if he’d had any talent at all, where he to engage into any artistic activity………………. He must take this from his mother as Dalinar is practically color-blind.

....

One thing I don't understand is why Dalinar is so ashamed of being the Blackthorn.   Even if he is above that behaviour these days, there's still no reason to feel shame for the things he did when he was young, and he's not that person anymore.   He should view it in context - 20 years ago, when they were uniting Alethkar, Gavilar and Sadeas did the same things he did, and so did the other Highprinces.   If you put it in context of Alethkar's militaristic culture, what he did would be praised.  It's like the Shin not walking on rocks - breaking with tradition would be horrifying and not something normal people would even consider.  

 

“Because we were wrong,” Dalinar said, narrowing his eyes. “Gavilar, Sadeas, and I were wrong to do as we did all those years ago.”

Wit seemed genuinely surprised. “You unified the kingdom, Dalinar. You did a good work, something that was sorely needed.”

“This is unity?” Dalinar asked, waving a hand back toward the scattered remnants of the feast, the departing lighteyes. “No, Wit. We failed. We crushed, we killed, and we have failed miserably.” He looked up. “I receive, in Alethkar, only what I have demanded. In taking the throne by force, we implied—no we screamed—that strength is the right of rule. If Sadeas thinks he is stronger than I am, then it is his duty to try to take the throne from me. These are the fruits of my youth, Wit. It is why we need more than tyranny, even the benevolent kind, to transform this kingdom. That is what Nohadon was teaching. And that is what I’ve been missing all along.”

Chapter 67, "Spit and Bile", WoR.

Oh Dalinar.  He is unredeemably stubborn and perpetually blind.  If he and Gavilar had tried to take Alethkar any other way but by force, it would have failed.  Because that is Alethi culture, and Highprinces are inherently selfish children.  He is thinking this by the last third of WoR but in WoK he should have been taught his lesson about leading by honour and nobility of purpose.  Did he learn nothing from The Tower?  

 

“Do not sorrow,” Wit said. “It is an era for tyrants. I doubt this place is ready for anything more, and a benevolent tyrant is preferable to the disaster of weak rule. Perhaps in another place and time, I’d have denounced you with spit and bile. Here, today, I praise you as what this world needs.”

Wit sees the big picture and Dalinar doesn't.  I seriously hope that part of his development in Oathbringer addresses this because otherwise I will throw something at the wall.

The letter of the law can easily be twisted if you have the right law scholars and the right contracts.  What does "ALL of his Shards" mean?  If the Shards Adolin won were formally bestowed to the Kholin family, and the use of the Shards were contractually signed over to the Kholin Army generals, then the letter of the law would have to accept that they Shards are not Adolin's.  It really depends on how Alethi law defines "owning Shards" as there seems to be many ways for individuals and families to own them - like Helaran and the Skybreaker Shards, Jakamav and the family Plate.  And how willing the letter of the law is to screw with Adolin, using Nalan-style loopholing.   I would personally say that the owner of a Shard is the first priority user.   Most of the time it will be the Shardbearer, but occasionally it will be a Highprince.   If two people called for the use of one set of Plate at the same time, who would it go to?  

Elhokar sets the letter of the law, and can grant pardon if he feels like it - though giving Adolin a wristslap might make the other Highprinces consider why they even bother with a king.   He still wouldn't go unreasonably harsh on Adolin.   Dalinar said that he would make an enemy of Elhokar if he executed Kaladin for insulting Amaram in the arena; what would Dalinar do if it was son and heir?  Elhokar knows he's weaker than his uncle and now Dalinar is a Bondsmith.  Elhokar is capable of perceiving things, when he's drunk at least.  He's nearsighted as the rest but now and then he can see the big picture, like what a terrible ruler he is and that he needs Dalinar's help if he wants to hold the kingdom together in a Desolation.  Even if he does lose control and gives a harsh sentence (though we will all be tired of him learning nothing over two books), he may settle for a lesser sentence, as he has done before.   It would be a cop-out but the Highprinces might accept delayed punishment until after the immediate catastrophe is done with, using Sadeas and the duel in one year's time as precedent.   I counted it up and out of the ten Highprincely houses, Roion and Sadeas are dead, Aladar and Sebarial support House Kholin.  If it comes to a tied vote, Elhokar would back the Kholins.

When was the last time Shardbearer fought Shardbearer on the battlefield, with the exception of fighting Eshonai?   Was it killing off the handful of Parshendi Shardbearers one by one in the Vengeance Pact war?  Was it before the War, when the Highprinces had constant border skirmishes?     Since most depictions of Shards in battle in the books are of Shardbearers one-shotting Parshendi and cutting open chrysalises, and not doing anything putting them in danger of dying, I think most of us have got the impression that Shardplate is almost invincible in terms of damage resistance.  It's not a bad thing, but it makes it hard to judge how severely the person inside the Plate is affected when they get thrown around.  

 

Adolin’s armorers came over to help him remove his Plate, but he waved them away. It was bad enough to show her his sloppy hair, plastered to his head from being in the helm. His clothing underneath—a padded uniform—would look awful.

Chapter 53, "Perfection"

If Plate absorbed all blows perfectly, why would padding be worn underneath?   Does it rattle around when it gets hit?   Adolin comes out of the fight with Eshonai at the end of WoR bruised and bloody, but is that from the impact of being hit by her Blade, or from a blow that cracked the Plate?   I doubt that Brandon will give exact parameters for the strength of Shardplate, because from what we've read, it's as strong as The Plot needs it to be.  And that is why Renarin doesn't get brain damaged jumping off the roof headfirst, since doing that with a high-tech impact absorbent foam core motorcycle helmet IRL would save your skull but snap your neck.

Wow, you picked up on all the times Adolin is nervous.  I searched for "nervous" on my eReader edition of WoR and found 7 pages of results.  I wasn't expecting that.  What is it supposed to show?  Is it to contrast against how Dalinar and Renarin are proper and controlled in public, while Adolin is the nervous one, but behind closed doors, they go crazy during highstorms?  Is it to show that Adolin is an emotional person and foreshadow that he had a lot of little worries building up that will make him do something extreme?   I suppose it's something every reader should interpret as they will.  Maybe it's just Brandon trying to make his characters more relatable by picking out some minor flaws and handing them out.

I think Adolin would still love Dalinar even if Dalinar was Blackthorn-mode or highstorm-deluded crazy.  Adolin just has few people in his life that he is actually close to, people that can actually be relied on.  And if Dalinar leaves for retirement, he leaves a power vacuum that he expects Adolin to fill.   And because Adolin is more like his mother than his father, he doesn't want to be the Kholin Highprince.  He doesn't want power.  His mother could have gotten a more powerful match - if she had one out of three Shards in Iri, likely she could have become an Iri princess (if she wasn't already) instead of married to foreigner younger son.   

 

“Wit,” Dalinar found himself asking, “am I a tyrant?”

Wit cocked an eyebrow, and seemed to be looking for a clever quip. A moment later, he discarded the thought. “Yes, Dalinar Kholin,” he said softly, consolingly, as one might speak to a tearful child. “You are.”

“I do not wish to be.”

“With all due respect, Brightlord, that is not quite the truth. You seek for power. You take hold, and let go only with great difficulty.”

That's why I thought it was important for Dalinar to stay sane - Adolin has responsibility, but he lacks confidence.  Maybe he doubts his ability to lead and protect everyone.  It's a shame that Adolin never got a PoV scene in WoR after the folding bridge was sabotaged, when he jumped to rescue Dalinar and let Shallan fall into the chasm.  It would have shed a lot of light on the matter.

Physical abuse like Kaladin's, or being surrounded by physical abuse like Shallan isn't necessary to crack a soul and start the Nahel bond.  Shallan described it in the chasm of seeing people hurt, and wanting to take the pain from them.   I don't know if wanting to protect people, or their gratitude is enough to attract a spren, but who would Renarin need to help or defend if this was the case?   I know the orders and their roles are different, but none of them are selfish and there's always some aspect of doing a greater good in their Oaths.  For Shallan it was keeping her brothers from going off the deep end.   What does Renarin do?   This is why Renarin being silent about his abilities for a thousand pages and then suddenly stepping out from behind a pillar to drop a line at a dramatically convenient moment was a major This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rules point for readers.  Yes, you could add the clues in about the the writing on the wall, and the glasses, but to me it was like adding 1 + 1 while Brandon keeps saying the answer is 3.

Adolin has a reputation as a flirt - how does he do it without blushing?   Does he just look at girls and their sisters until they notice him looking, and either slap him or ask him on a date?   Someone who is afraid to appear vulnerable is someone who wouldn't go around asking girls on dates non-stop, because there is nothing more embarrassing than being rejected in public and dumped by 20 different girls.  Maybe he divorces his feelings from courting and just does it mechanically and out of obligation, as is normal for noble arranged marriages in any universe, and that is why he appears so callous with them.   I mean, who investigates an assassination attempt while you've got a girl on your arm?  It's like the Alethi equivalent of being on your phone during a dinner date.   

You have to wonder what Kaladin's experience level is.  Maybe lighteyes and nobles are held to a different standard of outward morality than darkeyes.  A darkeye's "honour" on his or her wedding day wouldn't matter as much as a lighteyes', when people must be sure for the sake of succession.   Adolin has asked Kaladin for girl advice in the past - would he ask again for more detailed answers?   Adolin has already confessed that he's a noob when it comes to the ways of love, so Kal knows that Adolin's outward personality is just a shell.    I would have a lot of laughs if Adolin asked Kaladin to write down a glyph poem for Shallan, because the Ardents have gotten into the  habit of dodging around the next corner when they see him coming.

I assume book 3 will highlight why Dalinar thinks so poorly of his former years as the Blackthorn. Clearly, he is ashamed of the man he once was which leads us to believe there was more to it than simply being a soldier.  The excerpt pictured young Dalinar as a man of extremes, revealing into the warfare, demanding challenges and thinking his opponents lacking in the matter of skills. He was an efficient brute, happy to strike wherever Gavilar told him to strike: a tool in the hand of power hungry manipulator. He was content to follow Gavilar leads, which leads us to believe his negative resentment towards his older brother came later.

Why did Gavilar want to unite Alethkar to begin with? What else did he have to gain than power from the blood shed he had created in his wake?

Dalinar Kholin was a brute who sought to crush, to destroy, and to dominate. He was the King of the Mountain and he wouldn’t let anyone try to unsettle him. He had little compassion in him and little regards for the life he was taking: he thought simply being told to attack a given village was cause enough to create a blood bath. He was praised for it, people looked at the Blackthorn through an interlaced veil of both fear and respect, but Dalinar has grown to reject those ways. He has grown to value human life and to question the ideology wanting the strongest of them to stand at the top of the mountain. He wonders about the Vengeance Pact which isn’t fought for the right reasons anymore and thinks perhaps, just perhaps, they went too far.

We also get, from his POV, he feels horribly guilty for the death of Gavilar. He was drunk that night and for years he thought he could have made a difference had he controlled himself better. This guilt is what pushed him to follow the code, the clean himself and the reign his impulsive destructive side in so he could become the man he should have been, this faithful night. It is only when he realizes how formidable of an opponent Szeth is, for once facing the fact he wouldn’t have been able to much more than getting killed as well, that Dalinar is able to let go.

More importantly, he advises his son to never, never, never behave as he once did, to never use violence as a means to an end. Never.

Yes Dalinar is blind, stubborn, rigid and horribly narrow-minded. The kingdom would have never been united by anything else than strength and would never obey to anyone but a strong persona. I do believe Wit was warning him of Elhokar in this segment: a benevolent tyrant is better than a weak rule. In other words, it is much better to have Dalinar, willing to enforce his will than Elhokar who can’t rule. I strongly suspect the farce which is Elhokar’s kingship won’t last book 3. I also think it quite possible Brandon will explore one facet of inherited rule: simply because you are the son of a ruler doesn’t mean you should be the one ruling. He has already started up on this path with Kaladin by having him prove rank should be earned and not given upon receiving the right eye color.

The world is facing a Desolation and Elhokar shouldn’t be the leader of the most powerful nation. He isn’t the right man for the task and part of everyone’s growth will be to admit as much. The fact his father was king before him doesn’t give him the right to be the one to stand after him. Dalinar once tried to enforce the idea Shards should go to the best warriors and not to the most favored or the best connected. The same applies for the throne: it should go to the best possible candidate, not the son of the former one.

The problem is Dalinar, through his grief, turned his coat over and failed to acknowledge the world perhaps is not ready to be as honorable as he. He can only be as honorable as his enemies are which is why he got trapped by Sadeas, by trusting a weasel would not attempt to sneak pass him simply because he gave half a word he wouldn’t. Honor is great and everything, but he shouldn’t have relied solely on it to trust Sadeas: he should have listened to Adolin and be more careful. It wouldn’t have hurt to be careful…. to acknowledge Sadeas may not play by the same rules as he.

He wished he has received a lesson in honor as a young man, but he fails to realize honor is not the answer to all plights. He is the right leader, right now, as he is the only one strong enough to impose his will and to force Alethkar to fight as one unit, but Wit is right. In another time, he wouldn’t be the right person. All characters, it seems, have issues at grasping the larger picture: they all see the world through their respective flaws.

If the Shards Adolin gave away aren’t his to surrender anymore, then they aren’t his to claim once he is deprived of his original set. It isn’t a punishment if Adolin simply gives away his Shards only to take up another set. Nobody would settle for such a weak one in the case of a murderer.

Elhokar won’t grant pardon to Adolin: he can’t. The Highprinces will go mad if the Kholins fail to apply their high principles to one of their own. They will be madder at seeing Adolin go unpunished than knowing Sadeas is dead. Alliances also are feeble: there is no telling is House Sebrarial, House Aladar and House Roion will still support Dalinar once they find out he is a Radiant and his son has committed murder. They may think this is a valid reason to take him out, now before he gets too strong.

Dalinar said he would make an enemy of Elhokar if he executed Kaladin, but Kaladin is among those people Dalinar is abnormally fond of. Just as with Elhokar and Renarin, Dalinar is overly lenient with Kaladin: he openly dotes on him even if he isn’t family, he treats him as if he were.

Adolin is not Kaladin.

Adolin is the unlikely recipient of Dalinar’s flaw. Adolin is the one Dalinar goes unnecessarily hard on. Adolin is the one with the strong incentive to be perfect. Adolin is NOT allowed to make a mistake. Adolin doesn’t need forgiveness because Adolin doesn’t falter. Never. He is not allowed to be anything else than the picture perfect little boy his father has decided he would be. For some reason, Dalinar withholds his affections when it comes to his eldest son… It isn’t he doesn’t love him, he just…  There is a lot of affection/angst/emotional transfer going on in between Dalinar and Adolin. Their relationship isn’t what it should be. Adolin shouldn’t hero worship his father the way he does nor should he have taken upon his young shoulders the task to protect and overseeing his family. All he has strove to do, in both book, is to be EXACTLY what Dalinar wants him to be. We see him starting to crack when Dalinar pushes him to be Highprince, but the ploy was dropped early enough before any damage was done. He wants to obey his father, to fit this mold Dalinar crafted for him so badly…. And worst, all the affection he receives from his father seems tied in to this ability to fit within those expectations. When Adolin confronts Dalinar back in WoK, what happens? Father and son don’t talk for a few days until Dalianr breaks it and allows his son a chance to go back being perfect. In WoR, Adolin is praised by Dalinar for applying the plan, for being the perfect tool: his orders are clear. Win Shards for me son. A tool. A storming tool. Worst, a tool who is happy to be a tool because it pleases daddy which alternatively is the most important person in his whole world….

See how unhealthy it currently is? It works, for now because Adolin is still content to be what Dalinar wants him to be. He never went through the identity defining phase, the phase we see Renarin (and Kaladin and Shallan) going through, and the phase where you fish, you try out things, you figure out where your place may be and what you want. Adolin, despite being the oldest of the four, never went through it: he became exactly what he father told him to become, but it isn’t him. It pernicious because in all appearances Adolin is a strong normal person and he is: as long as he can keep up with the expectations, he is strong.

Adolin makes me think of the kid who gets praised when he gets straight-A. He only get praise when he receive straight-A. Never during other occasions. Luckily, the kid is very good: he always get straight-A. He works hard to keep on getting straight-A. What happens when the kid reaches adulthood? He has defined his sense of self-worth over his ability to garner straight-A which alternatively gave him the affection every needs to develop in a healthy manner. So what happens when the inevitable occurs? What happens when the hard working seemingly perfect kid misses one, because everyone ends up missing one? His entire self-identity collapses. He NEEDS those straight-A, so stress/anxiety start to settle in because anything less than perfection means the kid isn’t worth his loved ones affection.

This is exactly how I see Adolin evolving: an identity crisis exacerbate by his unhealthy relationship with his father. In other words, he is going to put a great deal lot of pressure onto himself to try to go back at being the perfect Golden Boy, but he is too far gone. It won’t work which may push him to take drastic actions or just the stress of it will make him crumble. I have often said I thought Adolin’s breaking point will manifest itself through stress/anxiety related issues.                                                                                                            

As for Shardplates, Brandon said receiving a boulder would injure the person inside the Plate, so they aren’t completely impenetrable. I have always thought Adolin’s padded uniform was to make wearing the Plate more comfortable, but it could also serve to cushion the hits. It seems the Plate can absorb a certain amount of energy, but pass a threshold, you feel it. Falling on your head from a few feet probably doesn’t cause much of an impact: the force isn’t strong enough to even come close to the Plate’s limits, but Jakamav Warhammer pounding on Adolin is much stronger, so Adolin feels the blow. Are they strong enough to bruise him? It is hard to tell. Maybe. He does say Navani had a habit of inspecting him after his duels to make sure he didn’t get injured. In his last fight though, Adolin doesn’t get injured by Eshonai, but Szeth. He hit his helmet-less head when being trust by Szeth (ever noticed the number of times he complains of a headache due to having received a hit in WoR? That kid has gotten a few commotions he dully ignored, this is practically certain) on the ground which is likely where all the bruises on his face came from. Looks like his hit the side of his head and it got scrapped as he glided along the rocks. His breastplate was shattered, but holding on. How did he get all the blood and the other bruises? Blood implies he was hurt enough the wounds bleed, probably deep bruising and scraps, not cuts. He was practically unable to stand on his own at the end, so he did get hurt or perhaps it was just his head who had started to swing too madly. He didn’t receive any hits we could see of while facing Szeth, Plate-less, so it has to come through pounding prior to that.

My thoughts are yes Plate is strong and a normal opponent or a small fall isn’t enough to injure the person inside it. However, when the blows are from a stormlight infused freak, then yes, the person inside can get hurt. Adolin definitely get hurts towards the end, but the blows he got likely were several orders of magnitude from what Renarin received during his jumps. Adolin’s wrists just shattered upon one single strike by Szeth. A clean break as he would have gotten from a clean bad fall: the impact was unbelievably strong to cause such damage.

As for Adolin being nervous, it is one of these things you easily miss out on a first read, especially if you aren’t closely looking at Adolin. It is there, but since it doesn’t play a decisive role within the main narrative, such as Kaladin’s depression for instances, it gets ignored, but it is there. All the ground work was done for Adolin: the perfect child, privilege but kind-hearted, very emotional but contained as long as his environment remains…. Stable. Whenever it starts to be unstable, Adolin’s emotional response starts to skyrocket. What is it supposed to show? I think it is supposed to show two things: one is the further highlight how much of an emotional person Adolin is and the other one is to show us how much trouble he has coping against the unknown. So all in all, when Adolin reacts through his ordeal by transforming himself into a nerve racking bundle of stress readers would see it as his natural progression: “Oh he never dealt well with those things, it didn’t show because his life has been very stable, but it isn’t…”. Some people somehow think Adolin won’t react to having murdered Sadeas or he would simply hide it and get away with it. No. I feel these people have over-looked the clues the author left for us: Adolin is a nerves bag. He is a naturally anxious and stressed person, but as long as he is on control of the situation, he appears strong and confident. It isn’t the others are secretly fearing the Highstorms and Adolin is the only one who can’t maintain his façade in public, I think it simply is Adolin truly is afraid of events he can’t control. If he can’t control them, then they are a threat, hence his fight or flight reaction gets triggered.

As we stated, Brandon doesn’t waste words for nothing. He is building up Adolin’s character through those small segments, making him more than an insignificant side character: these are important to Adolin as a character and will likely be relevant to his future reaction to events.

Also, if we go back to the scene where Adolin is summoning/dismissing Blade due to his nervousness upon trying to accept the possibility his father is the one making the scratch, we see Dalinar noticing his son is uncomfortable. He and Navani share a look: they noticed Adolin’s stressed-filled behavior. How does Dalinar react? By telling him this is how things are, to take care of the clean-up and then, once all his tasks are done, to try to get a bit of sleep. How should he have reacted? By acknowledging his son is disturbed by the event, by trying to get him to talk more and by sending him to rest as clearly the whole situation makes him abnormally nervous, but asking him to supervise the clean-up of an event he obviously has trouble dealing with just wasn’t the right move. So it is when Adolin is disturbed, he doesn’t get support or understanding, he gets more orders. Dalinar’s flaw.

As for Shshshsh, I think there is a possibility she was autistic, just as Renarin and struggled at developing relationships… It could explained why she didn’t get a better catch than the youngest son of a powerful house.

As for Adolin still liking his father even if he still were the Blackthorn, this is yet to be seen. Adolin hero-worships his father and he yearns to see his hero. All he was told of those years were the heroic facts, not the grim truth. I have no idea how Adolin would have reacted to this as I keep thinking he doesn’t realize who Dalinar truly was. He would have probably still love him and still try to mimic him but he would have likely been shove around more. Maybe he would have reached his threshold earlier, it is hard to tell.

I’m glad I am not the only one who thinks Adolin lacks confidence… It is a hard one to sell as he seems so… untouchable, but he doubts too much and his bragging seems more as an attempt to convince himself than others. He doesn’t lack self-esteem such as Renarin, but his confidence is so tightly linked to his prowess, he starts to falter when he thinks there might be a possibility he may not perhaps lived up to those expectations which would irrevocably hinder his personal image of self-worth not to mention all the affection he receives is based upon his ability to keep at being perfect. I think the reason we didn’t get an Adolin POV, after the chasm scene is probably because his reaction would have been too spoiler-y for book 3. Brandon wants to show us things, but he didn’t want to show us this particular one. Either it is tied to Adolin being just a side character and Brandon didn’t bother with it or it is because it would have given us clues to future developments and it was too early for it.

I am among those who thinks the “broken” criteria doesn’t need to be as drastic as Kaladin or Shallan: it can be lesser as illustrated by Renarin. Syl stated she was attracted to Kaladin due to his desire to protect his people, he tried. He was flawed, he wasn’t perfect, but his desire was strong. He had suffered one hardships, Tien’s death, and he had responded by striving to selflessly make his squad the safer for young boys to learn the art of war. THIS is what attracted Syl. A combination of events. Renarin, we do not know much of Renarin. He is quiet, introverted and he fades within the background. Here is a kid who lacks direction, focus and goals: he was given all he ever wanted, but he keeps being hung over the one thing he can’t possibly be, a soldier. He won’t back down until he is given the right to learn to be a soldier even if it obvious to any casual observer Renarin doesn’t have the making of one: he is feeble, physically unfit (nothing prevented him from fitting up even if he couldn’t take up swords lessons) and he doesn’t have the temperament. Nobody was truly surprised to see Renarin struggle to learn the basics of moving into a Plate just as nobody is surprised to find out Moash as a better grasps of his after one week than Renarin after several. What has he done? We don’t truly see it, but I suspect he has garner knowledge, wherever whenever he could. It isn’t clear why Renarin is deserving to be a Radiant, but I figured it will become more obvious in the later books. I suspect there are things we do not know about him just yet. With him, I suspect Brandon wanted to show us Radians weren’t all extraordinary individuals, but quiet unremarkable, upon first glance, persons could be chosen, if they had the right intentions and the proper cracks within their souls. This being said, Renarin’s reveal is one aspect of the story which comes up often in complains in the story: it wasn’t explained well enough. Since Renarin is a main character (it is so strange to think Renarin is a main super important character and Adolin isn’t), my thoughts are explaining it more would have ruined the climaxes the author is building up with him.

How does Adolin flirt without blushing? Adolin doesn’t flirt. The girls flirt. He isn’t the one who initiates the courtships: the girls are. He is desirable, so girls are attracted to him like bees are to honey, but he isn’t ready for a relationship. Maybe there is more going on, but each time a girl starts to get serious with him, he back away, he sabotages he relationship even.

Question: What’s up with Adolin’s serial dating? Does he think he is Leonardo DiCaprio?

Answer: *Brandon smiles.* (I believe its because of my Leonardo DiCaprio comment). It’s because he is young and not ready for a long term relationship. So, when a girl he is dating start to get serious, he starts to pull away and thinks of way to end it, even sabotage the relationship.

Question: So, is Shallan “the One” for Adolin?

Answer: That’s a RAFO. 

Adolin is the one who is screwing it up. He is the one who is backing away and he isn’t the one who is doing the courting. He was not exactly rejected, he unconsciously managed to successfully get rid of all his dates. Why he isn’t ready in a world where people marry as teenagers is yet to be told. My suspicions are he is afraid. It is tied to his persona, the one where he keeps everything to himself. Being ready means opening up and he can’t, not just yet. He just isn’t ready to leave the secured family cocoon formed by his father and brother, so he makes it so it doesn’t happen, but it isn’t something he gave much thought upon. It is a rather unconscious process.

In other words, when Adolin hooked up with Melali’s sister: he did it to ruin the relationship, not because he is a womanizer or an idiot. He is just a slightly insecure emotionally impulsive young man wants to remain “daddy’s perfect golden boy” for a while longer as, outside Dalinar’s appraisal, who is Adolin Kholin?

I bet he doesn’t know himself.

Being a soldier and a darkeyes, I am quite sure Kaladin was not required to keep his virtue to himself. It seems unlikely Kaladin never had any experience on the matter: nobody would care if he did, so he likely did it. Adolin has to hold onto this V-card very tightly as he is expected to remain chaste. I also would not presume as to how much Kaladin grasp in the exchange: he isn’t the most perspective man there is… though I presume it may come into play in the future… Imagine Shallan and Kaladin discussing intimacy only to have Kaladin admit Adolin admitted his serious lack of experience which in turns gives Shallan enough data to finally understand her fiance’s behavior… This would be hilarious. As for Kaladin writing poetry… oh gee. I don’t know if he can… It would be… seriously. Epic. Now I want to read Kaladin trying at poetry…