Questions on Transporting Investiture

[Lupis]

13 hours ago, Doonl said:

Here is the explanation for why I think that Kel's connection to Preservation is not the specific problem that the Ghostbloods are dealing with. I would think that any investiture has a similar problem, for example stormlight is inherently connected to Honor, hence the difficulty in transporting it. However, the GB have stated that they have cleared that barrier. While its possible that Kel's connection from being in the well is a little different, I dont think it is difficult enough, especially given the relative ease with which returned seem to travel. Even if it is easier for them thanks to the nature of Endowment, I wouldnt think that would remove the barrier entirely. By contrast, we have never seen a character who held the (close to) full power of a shard and then gave that up. We know that holding such power has a lasting effect even after giving it up because (Dawnshard spoilers)

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Brandon said Hoid was once a Dawnshard and that is why he cant hurt people

Obviously I could be wrong since we still dont fully understand the Mechanics at play, but it just seems like Kel's origional connection to Preservation is not a large enough tie, or different enough from what we have seen transported before, to be such a barrier to the GB. 

As a slight tangent, it is also important to note that the reason for Kel's problems could be something we are completely unaware of, since who knows what he spend the 300ish years between Era 1 and Stormlight doing other than joining the GBs

Admittedly I haven't thought too much about this, but aren't Scadrians more closely connected to their world because they, and the world, were created by Preservation and Ruin, and contain a bit of preservation, where most humans elsewhere were created by Adonalsium? I always assumed that, and being a cognitive shadow, was what was anchoring Kel there.

[Doonl]

On 12/12/2020 at 1:56 AM, Lupis said:

Admittedly I haven't thought too much about this, but aren't Scadrians more closely connected to their world because they, and the world, were created by Preservation and Ruin, and contain a bit of preservation, where most humans elsewhere were created by Adonalsium? I always assumed that, and being a cognitive shadow, was what was anchoring Kel there.

I am not sure about whether Scadrians are more connected, but even if they are, we have seen other Scadrians worldhop, (Demoux in WoK). Kelsiers problem seems to be specific to him, whether that be because of his time in the well, his status as a cognitive shadow, his time holding Preservations power, or some combination of them all.

[Lupis]

1 hour ago, Doonl said:

I am not sure about whether Scadrians are more connected, but even if they are, we have seen other Scadrians worldhop, (Demoux in WoK). Kelsiers problem seems to be specific to him, whether that be because of his time in the well, his status as a cognitive shadow, his time holding Preservations power, or some combination of them all.

Sorry I probably didn't make it particularly clear, I didn't mean the extra connection to Scadrial was the issue per se but that in combination with him being a cognitive shadow was. Maybe he is somehow still tied to the well though.

A thought has just occurred to me, although it has probably been asked and answered somewhere already. I wonder if he could be trapped in a gem, transported off world (very quickly before he dissipates!) then released?

[Doonl]

9 minutes ago, Lupis said:

Sorry I probably didn't make it particularly clear, I didn't mean the extra connection to Scadrial was the issue per se but that in combination with him being a cognitive shadow was. Maybe he is somehow still tied to the well though.

A thought has just occurred to me, although it has probably been asked and answered somewhere already. I wonder if he could be trapped in a gem, transported off world (very quickly before he dissipates!) then released?

It is certainly possible, but it just seems like we have to many examples of Cognitive shadows worldhopping, to the point that it might even be easier for them, as evidenced by the Eeyrie being worried about Therenodite shades, which I doubt anyone is helping to move around, and who don't seem intelligent enough to do it themselves. 

As for the gemstone, I doubt it if only because the Ghostbloods want Shallan to do exactly that to Kalak, and they are looking for a way to allow Kelsier to worldhop, so if that was a way to do it, they would have just done it by now.

[Lupis]

55 minutes ago, Doonl said:

It is certainly possible, but it just seems like we have to many examples of Cognitive shadows worldhopping, to the point that it might even be easier for them, as evidenced by the Eeyrie being worried about Therenodite shades, which I doubt anyone is helping to move around, and who don't seem intelligent enough to do it themselves. 

As for the gemstone, I doubt it if only because the Ghostbloods want Shallan to do exactly that to Kalak, and they are looking for a way to allow Kelsier to worldhop, so if that was a way to do it, they would have just done it by now.

Do it to Kalak as a test perhaps? They did say it was something similar to what the heralds are suffering from. I'm going from memory here so I may be off.

[Doonl]

iirc they were doing it to interrogate him, they knew that it would kill him. They wanted to get him because he was also trying to get off of Roshar, and I think its implied that he was close to doing it.