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Opinions on my naming system


Atilium

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Hey fellow Sanderfans,

I'm really nervous about posting this because I've had instances before where people blatantly stole from stories etc that I posted on forums, but I really need some help, and last time I posted about a magic system I'm developing for the same city I got some great input. So uh.. here goes...

 

This is a naming system I developed for my City-Country, Iksindar. For the moment, I'm calling it The Elemental Naming System, though don't be confused by the word elemental - this has nothing to do with earth, air, fire and water or hydrogen, oxygen etc.

 

Here i've copy-pasted what I have in my notes:

 

Iskindarian Elemental Naming System
 
Elements:
element -- invert-element 
  1. ha
  2. ri
  3. re
  4. vi
  5. ki -- ik
  6. ka -- ak
  7. ke
  8. ku
  9. mi -- im
  10. na -- an
  11. ni -- in
  12. ne -- en
  13. lu
  14. li
  15. da
  16. di
  17. du
  18. ra -- ar
  19. ca -- ac
  20. zi -- iz
  21. za
  22. ze
  23. ta -- at
Duel-Elements
  1. zim (zi, im)
  2. kim (ki, im)
  3. kar (ka, ar)
  4. liz (li, iz)
  5. rin (ri, in)
  6. zac (za, ac)
  7. zen (ze, en)
  8. dik (di, ik)
  9. kin (ki, in)
 
Basic Rules Explained:
All Iskindarian names are a combination of two or three of the above elements. So for example the name Keduna uses the elements ke, du, and na. 
 
Lets say, for example, you take the elements du, zi, and im to make the name Duziim. The problem here is that that results in a double letter. So you combine the entitlements zi and im to make the duel-element, zim. You may only use four elements in a name if two of them are combined into a duel-element. 
 
Each element consists of one consonant and one vowel. Pure elements begin with consonants, invert-elements begin with vowels. Possible Rule: invert-elements are "lower class". (Why? Could it be that vowels are unclean? Why would that be?)
 
You may never use the same letter more than once in an Iksindarian name. (and so, of course, you may never use one element twice in a name) (why? what is the reason behind this?)
 
Possible rule: A child's name must contain one of the elements, duel-elements or invert-elements of their mother or father, depending on the gender of the child.
 
(Q: Are you allowed more than one duel-element per name?)
 
Problem Name:
Iskindar Is/kin/dar (ki, in; da, ar)
This name conatins two i's and two duel elements. Do I simply say that it's an exception, or do I remove the rule that says a letter may not appear more than once in a dame? 
 
General rules
 
Example Names:
Hakim, Keduna, Lukida, Karac, Lizandu, Kiladu, Duzim, Haduna, Kurinda, Vizac, Izken, Mikadu, Tadiken, Rakindu, Kinalu, Kevina, Daliku, Kidar, Minalu, Ludavi, Anziku, Kudizac, Kilu, Dami, Lika, Zeka, Nadi, Tadu, Lireka, Atkurin, Darinku, Dukami, Lunaki, Kulida, Lunami, Vidalu, Kuzina, Mida, Akemi, Mina,                  

Example Names Split To Show Separate Elements:
Ha/kim (ki and im), Ke/du/na, Lu/ki/da, Kar/ac (ar and ka), Liz/an/du, (li and iz) Ki/la/du, Du/zim, (zi im) Ha/du/na, Ku/rin/da, (ri in) Vi/zac, (za ac) Ik/zen (ze, en), Mi/ka/du, Ta/dik/en (di, ik), Ra/kin/du (ki, in), Ki/na/lu, Ke/vi/na, Da/li/ku, Ki/dar (da, ar), Mi/na/lu, Lu/da/vi, An/zi/ku, Ku/di/zac (za, ac), Ki/lu, Da/mi, Li/ka, Ze/ka, Na/di, Ta/du, Li/re/ka, At/ku/rin (ri, in), Da/rin/ku (ri, in), Du/ka/mi, Lu/na/ki, Ku/li/da, Lu/na/mi, Vi/da/lu, Ku/zi/na, Mi/da, Rin/ku (ri, in), Ake/mi (ak, ke), Mi/na,
 
 
 
That's about it. I'm open to suggestion, but I wont necessarily use every one. Please try and keep any ideas pretty close to the general "feel" I have here, if that makes sense. (Note that the city is based on a combination of arabian and african influences, with some indian)
Hope you all like it and have some ideas for me! 
      

 

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I know nothing about linguistics, but this sounds really cool. One interesting linguistic quirk you could add would be to give every element a meaning - maybe something along the lines of "the hundred virtues". The invert-elements might be places where both an virtue and its inversion could be seen as virtuous - for example, Serenity and Ambition. Naming a child is supposed to shape it's life, and original names are best. The upper class might value the basic elements above all else for their purity, especially if the virtues that also have inversions follow a theme - if the upper class values boldness, for example, maybe a lot of the hundred virtues exemplify that, but their inversions are used by the lower classes because like to distinguish themselves from the haughty upper classes. You could then play with the themes a bit, by making the upper class ultimately entirely contradict the themes of the virtues.

This is all just an idea, of course, and I hope you give it consideration and nothing more.

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Sounds like your trying to achieve something like the Everchanging Book of Names.  One thing I ask is how does this naming convention reflect on the local language? If its like Japanese words and names often will use the same characters and meanings as the language itself. Another thing that is important is what purpose do these names have beyond identifying one person from another. The name's could be greater than its parts too. Like say if the name's root or characters translate to Monkey Grasps Moon, it could have a meaning of, "He who shall own the moon and all it shines upon"

 

Granted I expect that most of your book will be in english so the meanings of names may not have a very big part unless you have a character who thinks through people's names.

 

Does that make any sense?

 

Edit: In my own world I do something similar though a person is instead born with a single or two syllable name, they take another one or two when they become an adult and when they die their family adds another one or two to it. The Name you're born with, the name you take for you self and the name you're remembered by. So for mine its Vin then Vinsari and the Vinsarishu. Granted I need to figure out what this all means in the context of my story but its an important part of the culture my character is apart of.

Edited by Darkarma
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I know nothing about linguistics, but this sounds really cool. One interesting linguistic quirk you could add would be to give every element a meaning - maybe something along the lines of "the hundred virtues". The invert-elements might be places where both an virtue and its inversion could be seen as virtuous - for example, Serenity and Ambition. Naming a child is supposed to shape it's life, and original names are best. The upper class might value the basic elements above all else for their purity, especially if the virtues that also have inversions follow a theme - if the upper class values boldness, for example, maybe a lot of the hundred virtues exemplify that, but their inversions are used by the lower classes because like to distinguish themselves from the haughty upper classes. You could then play with the themes a bit, by making the upper class ultimately entirely contradict the themes of the virtues.

This is all just an idea, of course, and I hope you give it consideration and nothing more.

Ooh, I love this idea! I don't know poop about linguistics either, doing my best though... This is perfect, though, because Iskindarian culture places a heavy weight on thier caste system. This way simply by hearing someones name, one can tell from which caste they are. Thanks so much!

Sounds like your trying to achieve something like the Everchanging Book of Names. One thing I ask is how does this naming convention reflect on the local language? If its like Japanese words and names often will use the same characters and meanings as the language itself. Another thing that is important is what purpose do these names have beyond identifying one person from another. The name's could be greater than its parts too. Like say if the name's root or characters translate to Monkey Grasps Moon, it could have a meaning of, "He who shall own the moon and all it shines upon"

Granted I expect that most of your book will be in english so the meanings of names may not have a very big part unless you have a character who thinks through people's names.

Does that make any sense?

Edit: In my own world I do something similar though a person is instead born with a single or two syllable name, they take another one or two when they become an adult and when they die their family adds another one or two to it. The Name you're born with, the name you take for you self and the name you're remembered by. So for mine its Vin then Vinsari and the Vinsarishu. Granted I need to figure out what this all means in the context of my story but its an important part of the culture my character is apart of.

oh, thats an interesting idea! Thanks! And I love your system - was considering something like that myself, but eventually discarded it in favor of the system I know have.

What is the Everchanging Book of Names?

Edited by Atilium
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I know nothing about linguistics, but this sounds really cool. One interesting linguistic quirk you could add would be to give every element a meaning - maybe something along the lines of "the hundred virtues". The invert-elements might be places where both an virtue and its inversion could be seen as virtuous - for example, Serenity and Ambition. Naming a child is supposed to shape it's life, and original names are best. The upper class might value the basic elements above all else for their purity, especially if the virtues that also have inversions follow a theme - if the upper class values boldness, for example, maybe a lot of the hundred virtues exemplify that, but their inversions are used by the lower classes because like to distinguish themselves from the haughty upper classes. You could then play with the themes a bit, by making the upper class ultimately entirely contradict the themes of the virtues.

This is all just an idea, of course, and I hope you give it consideration and nothing more.

 

A question - to you think higher class people would then use duel-elements in their names? as a duel element is made up of a pure element and an invert-element? Would lower-class use duel-elements? I don't want to eradicate duel-elements completely, because I think they're a cool part of the system. Maybe only middle-class people would use duel-elements in their names? 

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