Elsecallers lack of squires

[Wintersu]

I did a quick search in the forum and couldn’t find anything else on this topic, but if I missed anything let me know.

I’m looking at some order’s ability to gain squires, and noticed a distinct lack of Elsecaller squires

We have a report from Shallan that some Orders are individualistic. I think that applies very much to Bondsmiths, as they must bond with specific spren. It’s looking like that also applies to Elsecallers

Lets look at the orders we’ve seen in action so far.

Windrunners: This order is a special case, but some members of bridge 4 start drawing in Stormlight almost immediately after Kaladain makes it to the 3rd Ideal. Lopen is a specific ‘on screen’ example.

Lightweavers: Vathah becomes a squire, not even remotely on purpose. After working with Shallan for some time, at Urithiru and Kolinar, he draws in Stormlight completely by accident. All it took was time to spend working by Shallan (a Lightweaver of a high enough Ideal) towards the same goal, and he becomes a squire.

Skybreakers: A little different, but this is the only order to maintain the traditions of the past. Similar to the other two orders we’ve talked about, applicants are first directed to work alongside a Skybreaker of sufficient rank, following their orders exactly. After completion of their tasks to the Skybreakers satisfaction, they are directed to begin taking Ideals and becoming Squires

 

So, in all cases the first step to being a squire is to do what the Stormfather describes as ‘drawing near to Radiance’.

Now let’s look at Elsecallers, i.e. Jasnah. She is definitely at least to the third Ideal. I would say definitely the fourth Ideal. High enough rank.

She has a number of scholars and Ardents working under her direction for quite some time, researching in the crystal records room (forgot the exact name)

No one ever becomes a squire. 

So, I theorize (and I realize this may be proved incorrect) that the order of Elsecallers can’t have squires, and they are one of the very individualistic and independent orders.

[Karger he/him]

21 minutes ago, Wintersu said:

All it took was time to spend working by Shallan (a Lightweaver of a high enough Ideal) towards the same goal, and he becomes a squire.

I am pretty sure that Vathah becomes a squire after learning to understand and trust Shallan a bit.  Perhaps that is the barrier for squireship to a lightweaver?  As to Elsecallers I see no reason that they could not have squires.  The reason that I think Jasnah does not have any is that she does not have any personal relationships of the right kind.  Other then her fellow Veristitalian who she is not in close physical proximity to we have no evidence of Jasnah having any personal relationships outside her family.  If Jasnah took another ward perhaps she could have a squire but we also know that she finds herself a bad teacher.

[SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword]

I'll preface this by saying that it is speculation.

I think being a squire has more to do with the Radiant's inclination towards you. If they have sworn the right ideal to allow them to have squires then it comes down to who they feel is their squire.

Looking at Kaladin, he had felt responsible for his bridgecrew for a long time before he swore his 3rd ideal, so it makes sense that they would immediately become squires.

With Shallan, her people didn't start to become squires until she started to actually feel responsible for them, she largely ignored them at first. After her talk with Adolin she starts to "bond" with them and eventually they develop into squires.

Skybreakers are more direct. They treat it more like a school where the Radiants are the teachers and the squires the students. They also cheat a bit IMO. They already know how the system works so they don't have to do it by instinct. They can simply decide that someone is a squire and they are.

In Jasnah's case, her aversion to taking wards would, in my opinion, extend to taking squires. I think the only person that could have become one, so far, was Shallan, and she was already taken.

While I agree that the Bondsmiths aren't likely to have squires, I think it is very irresponsible. They are, in my opinion, the most important Radiants. They should always have at least one squire who is ready to take their place in case they die.

 

[Calderis he/him]

I'm not saying it's implausible, or even improbable, but I don't think we have enough info here. 

Jasnah is currently the only Elsecaller, and she's exceptionally closed off and secretive. The only person she's allowed close enough to her at any point we've seen to become a squire would have been Shallan and she has that whole pesky bond going on to complicate things. 

The ardents and scholars she directs in Urithiru are not treated as friends or companions, just subordinates to be directed. Whereas in contrast you have Bridge 4 with Kaladin, and Vathah's interactions with both Veil, and Shallan after the reveal. They work more closely and even as a team. 

The key is going to be Connection, and Jasnah holds herself so far apart that she doesn't seem to easily establish that. Not all Elsecallers are going to be like Jasnah though. 

Quote

Ironeyes

What kind of qualities attract an inkspren?

Brandon Sanderson

Inkspren do not like how variable humans are. It’s a thing out of honor, and they like people who are logical and willing to think about their lives and not react as much by instinct.

They are looking more - the scholar is the perfect example, but a soldier who is very thoughtful and is not just rushing into battle could be chosen as well.

Boskone 54 (Feb. 17, 2017)

Just be the nature of the orders, I think that some will get more inherently (Windrunners) and some won't get any (Bondsmiths), but for most orders I think the variance is going to be far more individualistic. 

Edited April 4, 2019 by Calderis

[Wintersu]

1 hour ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

I'll preface this by saying that it is speculation

I am most definitely speculating. Really, that’s all we can do until Sanderson gives us a definite answer. I’m just noticing a trend, and Jasnah isn’t fitting it.

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

The key is going to be Connection, and Jasnah holds herself so far apart that she doesn't seem to easily establish that. Not all Elsecallers are going to be like Jasnah though. 

This very well could be the entire reason we haven’t seen a squire from her.

I do love that all the Orders are developing their own feel. 

I’ve said this before (on Reddit), but the number one piece of advice I would give Dalinar would be to have ALL his Knights take people on to be Squires, and see what happens. The more Radiants the better

[Karger he/him]

Also this is interpretation but I am fairly sure that Jasnah initially believed that Shallan had become her squire at the beginning of WoR.

[Pathfinder]

1 minute ago, Karger said:

Also this is interpretation but I am fairly sure that Jasnah initially believed that Shallan had become her squire at the beginning of WoR.

No writing this to disagree with anything you wrote, just adding additional information. Jasnah felt the spren sent Shallan to her for training as a antibody response to the coming desolation. She first assumed Shallan was from the same order because they both had soulcasting, but once Shallan exhibited illumination, she deduced she was a member of another order. 

[Karger he/him]

I was referring to this scene in Way of Kings actually.

Jasnah held up a hand. “These are a type of spren, Shallan. They are related to what you do.”

She tapped the desk softly. “Two orders of the Knights Radiant possessed inherent Soulcasting ability; it was based on their powers that the original fabrials were designed, I

believe. I had assumed that you... But no, that obviously wouldn’t make sense. I see now.”

[Pathfinder]

8 minutes ago, Karger said:

I was referring to this scene in Way of Kings actually.

Jasnah held up a hand. “These are a type of spren, Shallan. They are related to what you do.”

She tapped the desk softly. “Two orders of the Knights Radiant possessed inherent Soulcasting ability; it was based on their powers that the original fabrials were designed, I

believe. I had assumed that you... But no, that obviously wouldn’t make sense. I see now.”

Yep, like I said I wasn't disagreeing with you. Just adding info. Jasnah assumed Shallan was of the same order cause she could soulcast, but upon learning she could use illumination, realized Shallan belonged to a different order.