+Child of Hodor Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 (edited) The recent Culivationlight Shardcast got me thinking about what Cultivation is doing with her investiture. http://www.17thshard.com/news/shardcast/shardcast-cultivationlight-fanx-words-of-brandon-p1-r434/ I think she is providing the gemhearts which leak into the physical realm in a similar way to how (mistborn spoiler) Spoiler atium did. https://coppermind.net/wiki/Gemheart To put it in terms of human anatomy Cultivation and Honor were lovers, their spren refer to them as Mother and (Storm)Father, Stormlight = Sperm Gemheart = Womb Spren = Child I realize Spren are tiny splinters and they aren't conceived via stormlight going into gemhearts, but I think the metaphor works for what powers 2/3rds of the magic on Roshar. I say they power the systems together because, with the exception of beings like Lift and Larkins (Chiri-Chiri ) , surgebinders can't just take in Stormlight directly from a source like the Highstorms. They need to capture stormlight in a gem first. Fabrials also need stormlight in a gem and often a spren. A main difference between Surgbinding and Fabrials is where the Spren is bound. In surgebinding it is bound to the users soul with fabrials it is bound in a gem. But all three components seem to be important. Quote 17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 25, 2012)#2Sept. 26, 2012 rags You have told us there are more than 30 magical systems on Roshar. I am assuming there are 10 Surgebindings and 10 Voidbindings. Do the next 10 belong to another such classification? If yes, can you give us the name for it. Brandon Sanderson Fabrials are part of it. Quote fabrial is a type of mechanical device, powered by Stormlight that uses spren captured in gemstones to perform a variety of tasks.[1] Edited October 1, 2018 by Child of Hodor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllNsickly he/him Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 I can get behind Honor and Cultivation being equal parts responsible for Gemhearts being a storage device for Stormlight. Minor corrections, however... We HAVE seen Kaladin absorbing Stormlight directly from Highstorms on several occasions. His fight with Szeth being the biggest that comes to mind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Child of Hodor Posted October 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, IllNsickly said: I can get behind Honor and Cultivation being equal parts responsible for Gemhearts being a storage device for Stormlight. Minor corrections, however... We HAVE seen Kaladin absorbing Stormlight directly from Highstorms on several occasions. His fight with Szeth being the biggest that comes to mind. That's true, we've seen him get stormlight from other sources. He gets a huge dose of stormlight when he says the oath at the end of WoR. Also, Syl forces stormlight into him when he falls off the bridge in WoR and it nearly severs their bond. Quote Salt Lake City signing (March 29, 2014)#1 Questioner So how did Shallan rescue Kaladin when they fell in the chasm? Brandon Sanderson She did not. It was actually Syl, but he was in the process of breaking the bond, and so she was able to get some Stormlight to him. But that is what really set it really poorly. Like you can imagine, she-- this bond was really a strain for her to use at that point, so it was her. But doing what she did just about destroyed her, which is why you don't hear from her after that. The first time he gets stormlight in a storm is when he strung up and that's because he is holding a gemstone that Teft gave him. Edited October 1, 2018 by Child of Hodor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciridae Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 40 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said: Also, Syl forces stormlight into him when he falls off the bridge in WoR and it nearly severs their bond. It's interesting that Syl can do that. Can all Nahel spren do this? Did she give him some of the investiture she is made of? Or is Syl special because she was made by the Stormfather, and like her father has the ability to distribute Stormlight (in a very very limited way)? I like the idea that gem hearts are the physical manifestation of Cultivation. Theres that WoB that says that singers were not originally of Cultivation though. It implies that they are now, but I'm not sure how that fits with Roshars evolution and the post-shattering assignment of investiture. Maybe the singers weren't of Cultivation before the Shattering, because there was no Cultivation. In any case I agree that fabrials (and by extension all gemheart based symbiosis on Roshar) is part of Cultivations magic system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Child of Hodor Posted October 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 1 minute ago, Ciridae said: It's interesting that Syl can do that. Can all Nahel spren do this? Did she give him some of the investiture she is made of? Or is Syl special because she was made by the Stormfather, and like her father has the ability to distribute Stormlight (in a very very limited way)? I like the idea that gem hearts are the physical manifestation of Cultivation. Theres that WoB that says that singers were not originally of Cultivation though. It implies that they are now, but I'm not sure how that fits with Roshars evolution and the post-shattering assignment of investiture. Maybe the singers weren't of Cultivation before the Shattering, because there was no Cultivation. In any case I agree that fabrials (and by extension all gemheart based symbiosis on Roshar) is part of Cultivations magic system. She may have pushed some of herself through since it was an emergency. It doesn't seem like she has ready access to other Stormlight. When they were in Shadesmar in OB Syl and Pattern couldn't help with the lack of Stormlight issue. Yeah, it's tricky with Roshar since Adonalsium made the planet and the highstorms, Singers etc. What was it like before and what did the Shards change? We don't really know what the Singers were like before Honor & Cultivation got there. I assume they had gemhearts, but I don't know. I think she is providing them now though. It's possible they were "of her" investiture by default post-shattering even before she came to planet. Gemhearts play a major role in how big creatures can grow afterall. Quote Salt Lake ComicCon FanX 2016 (March 26, 2016)#4 Questioner Is it only greatshells that have gemhearts, or do all crustaceans on Roshar have some sort of gem inside? And if it is only greatshells then are their unique decayspren related to this fact? Brandon: They're not only greatshells, but not ever crustacean has a gemheart, at least not of the style that would be of any relevance to you. Some have the same sort of chemistry going on in their body, they're just too small to have it coalesce into a gemheart. And the gemheart is related to how-- particularly the greatshells, can grow to get so big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tglassy Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 I don't think Syl GAVE him the stormlight, I think she allowed him to draw it in from his pouch. He was breaking his oaths, and had been cut off from her. His forcing her to let him draw it in caused her pain, similar to how when Dalinar forces the Stormfather to do things he doesn't want to, it causes pain. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Child of Hodor Posted October 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 21 minutes ago, Tglassy said: I don't think Syl GAVE him the stormlight, I think she allowed him to draw it in from his pouch. He was breaking his oaths, and had been cut off from her. His forcing her to let him draw it in caused her pain, similar to how when Dalinar forces the Stormfather to do things he doesn't want to, it causes pain. Good point. That might be what he meant in the WoB, and it is cleaner than her being able to pump Stormlight in directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripheus23 Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 5 hours ago, Child of Hodor said: To put it in terms of human anatomy Cultivation and Honor were lovers, their spren refer to them as Mother and (Storm)Father, Stormlight = Sperm Gemheart = Womb Spren = Child I realize Spren are tiny splinters and they aren't conceived via stormlight going into gemhearts, ... Favorite thing I've read all day. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrдVψLшR 0115 he/him Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 Son it’s time I tell u about the gems and the storms. Sometimes when a storm and a gem love each other very much... 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 The whole gemheart mechanism predates the H&C's arrival on Roshar, so it can't be designed by them or their relationship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrдVψLшR 0115 he/him Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 Honor took the magic over for himself though. So maybe cultivation did the same 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, PelekinikeleT said: Honor took the magic over for himself though. So maybe cultivation did the same What magic did honor take? And how their messing with pre-existing stuffs is meaningful for something that was designed to work in that way far before they started to mess ? Edited October 2, 2018 by Yata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyrann Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Yata said: What magic did honor take? Stormlight/Surgebinding have been altered by Honor for his purposes. In fact, for all we know putting it into gems may be part of that. Edited October 2, 2018 by Leyrann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrдVψLшR 0115 he/him Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 (edited) @Yata This is the wob I was thinking of Spoiler Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) There was a point when the Heralds didn't need to draw Stormlight from gems, although the Stormlight-in-gems predates Honor's arrival. There was a following conversation about this topic, about how a lot of the elements were there before Honor arrived, but he co-opted them. So, Stormlight were there, but there are big differences now. Footnote: Unspecified question by Pagerunner. And here’s one backing up your point Spoiler Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Pre-Shattering magic in books? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Let's see. I would count the highstorms as that. Highstorm predates the Shattering. Now, the highstorm has been changed dramatically by certain events, but the highstorm does predate the Shattering. Edited October 2, 2018 by PelekinikeleT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Child of Hodor Posted October 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 Quote Arcanum Unbounded Hoboken signing (Dec. 3, 2016)#1 Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) There was a point when the Heralds didn't need to draw Stormlight from gems, although the Stormlight-in-gems predates Honor's arrival. There was a following conversation about this topic, about how a lot of the elements were there before Honor arrived, but he co-opted them. So, Stormlight were there, but there are big differences now. 6 hours ago, Yata said: What magic did honor take? And how their messing with pre-existing stuffs is meaningful for something that was designed to work in that way far before they started to mess ? Honor and Cultivation chose to come to Roshar together. Honor chose to takeover the Highstorms. My theory is Cultivation chose to take over the gemhearts. Their relationship matters because they could have gone to Ashyn or any other shard-less planets in the Cosmere, but they came to Roshar and adopted these roles where the father is providing the seed and the mother provides the womb. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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