Back Cover Flaps

[Tempus]

Is there a reason they haven't been suggested?

 

 

 

I forgot about them. They are possible candidates - still tricky how they managed to get private info about Eshonai. They also don't seem like they would be the type to bother spying on Kaladin, Dalinar, Jasnah, or Shallan. Shinovar is pretty exclutionist.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Tempus

[Bloodfalcon he/him]

I forgot about them. They are possible candidates - still tricky how they managed to get private info about Eshonai. They also don't seem like they would be the type to bother spying on Kaladin, Dalinar, Jasnah, or Shallan. Shinovar is pretty exclutionist.

Exclusivity wouldn't mean that you couldn't be watching outsiders though. 

Just thought of something..... The Ryshadium (sp?) all come from Shinovar and we are told there is something special about them. They may be a Shin device for.... I don't want to say spying, because that sounds like crazy talk, but they could have something to do with Shin knowledge. 

Either way, based on that line about the Shin being able to recover Szeth's Blade if he falls, I assume they have some abilities we aren't aware of, and it looks like their influence stretches beyond Shinovar.

[Sphinx]

The following is theorizing on the faintest shreds of nothing, but wooo random semi-haphazard speculation!

 

 

 

the magics of ancient days can become ours again

and

 

 

The ancient oaths have at last been spoken; the spren return.

Suggest to me that the speaker is not a spren, as to the best of our knowledge the spren still possess the magics of ancient days, it's just their capacity to give them that is curtailed, while in the second quote it seems odd for the voice of "us" and "we" and "ours" to suddenly change to "the spren." Why not "we return"?

 

 

 

Men seek that which was lost. I fear the struggle will destroy them.

This quote, however, is interesting. "Men" is now identified as "them." While someone human might use "Men" to refer to their own struggles, "them" seems to disassociate the speaker from humankind.

 

 

So if we pursue the theory that the speaker is neither human nor spren, while still being a group of people:

A subgroup of Listeners: This, admittedly, requires some convoluted twisting and a revision of some of our understanding of Parshendi. If we stretch the meanings of "victory" and "ours" to the breaking point, we can maybe suggest that the first part refers to the group of listeners breaking away and escaping. "Surgebinding and Shardwielding can return; the magics of ancient days can become ours again" the magics of ancient days in this case is distinct form surgebinding and shardwielding, and perhaps represents forms from before the parshendi gods. "One of them may redeem us. And one of them will destroy us." Takes on an interesting meaning if taken to be the Listeners.

 

The lyrical rhythm of the backflaps also fits the rhythms of the Parshendi. The Parshendi are also much more likely to be knowledgeable about Eshonai, who is a weak point in most of the human theories. The Parshendi would also have some ability to watch all of the mentioned people without being known to be doing it.

 

Obviously, this theory has massive holes in it, but perhaps it is barely possible that someone like Eshonai's mother is having some sort of knowledge of what is going on that surpasses what we've seen so far.

 

Whatever Iyatil is: This runs into similar problems as Tempus outlined for the Ghostbloods in general. It is possible that they were aware of Dalinar's latent abilities, in addition to having some understanding of Shallan's, but not realising Shallan was Veil immediately. The Ghostbloods seem to be the most up to date and informed so far, and we know that they have spies on almost all the viewpoint characters.

 

Aimians: We really have no sign that the Aimians are around and watching beyond Axies studying spren. Axies seems fairly nonchalant about everything too.

 

Horneaters: Have been mentioned as being not quite human, and have some understanding of things that are going on that we don't completely understand. Some of them show up in odd places. On the other hand, there's really nothing in Rock's mystical stories that this level of detailed awareness is going on, and the style is definitely not Horneater. Although perhaps it's just been translated, given the Horneaters' penchant for poetry.

 

Soulcasters: Fitting in with the Vorin side of things, it's obvious that some of these might not consider themselves Human anymore. And they do have a great deal of unobtrusive presence around the main four, and even some ability to know things about Eshonai.

 

 

Of course, it's quite possible (probable?) that the "them" is merely meant to indicate that those struggling with seeking what was lost risk destruction, and the group of people writing this do not, and so the authors are still human.

 

 

 

 

Edited to add (as double posting is bad):

Either way, if one of the stone shaman was writing these and they were written at some point right after each book, the line "The Assassin has arrived." could literally mean that Szeth appears in Shinovar and confronts them just after the end of WoR, which I think we suspect.
 

 

Whether the writings were written before, during, or after the book would probably help us steer in the right direction. Personally, I find it more likely that they were written either just before, or partway through, rather than after. For one thing, all the writings describe the struggle the characters face in that particular book in the present tense, which seems odd if it's written when that character arc is over.

 

There's also this:

It is past time for them to awaken, for the Everstorm looms.

Which I interpreted as implying that the Everstorm had not yet been summoned, and that the four mentioned had not yet "awakened." I'd think that by the end the book, the Everstorm is not looming anymore.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Sphinx

[Numb]

If Eshonai becomes a Radiant is it not possible that she would tell the writer her story? That's partly why I like Sizgil, he gathers stories and is in the perfect position to do just that. It could even be Eshonai herself!

[RShara she/her]

I'm thinking that it's going to turn out to be Dalinar.  It has that sort of solemn tone that Dalinar has.  Also, it would be really fitting, because of his admiration of Nohadon.  Especially because of his realization that Nohadon wrote the book after all the things that he'd done, to teach men how to live in peace. 

[Bloodfalcon he/him]

I guess I just don't see how this could possibly be anyone reflecting on a period of time. It seems like both are written by someone who just experienced them. 
 

I long for the days before the Last Desolation.

The age before the Heralds abandoned us and the Knights Radiant turned against us. A time when there was still magic in the world and honor in the hearts of men.

The world became ours, and we lost it. Nothing, it appears, is more challenging to the souls of men than victory itself.

Or was that victory an illusion all along? Did our enemies realize that the harder they fought, the stronger we resisted? Perhaps they saw that the heat and the hammer only make for a better grade of sword. But ignore the steel long enough, and it will eventually rust away.

There are four whom we watch. The first is the surgeon, forced to put aside healing to become a soldier in the most brutal war of our time. The second is the assassin, a murderer who weeps as he kills. The third is the liar, a young woman who wears a scholar’s mantle over the heart of a thief. The last is the highprince, a warlord whose eyes have opened to the past as his thirst for battle wanes.

The world can change. Surgebinding and Shardwielding can return; the magics of ancient days can become ours again. These four people are key.

One of them may redeem us.

And one of them will destroy us.

The lines in red text show someone who acknowledges the past, speaks in the present tense, speaks with uncertainty about the future, but also speaks with certainty on the future - as much as anyone might speak with certainty about the future.

There is a very noticeable difference in knowledge that starts with uncertainty on whether the magic of Surgebinding will be brought back, and continues with known Surgebinding Orders attached to the people that were spoken of previously. So there is obvious progression of knowledge that seems to point directly away from the thought that it is someone looking back on the events of the Stormlight Archive. If that is the case, It's not Dalinar, Szeth, Kaladin, Shallan, etc. They are all experiencing these things, but they don't seem to have the knowledge. We also have confirmation it's not one of the KR, correct? So we've kind of ruled them out to begin with. 

Edited April 29, 2014 by Bloodfalcon

[Aether he/him]

I am not so sure that we can assuredly say that the writer is not human:

The Knights Radiant must stand again.

The ancient oaths have at last been spoken; the spren return. Men seek that which was lost. I fear the struggle will destroy them.

I don't think that the last two sentences here are quite as tightly linked as has been suggested. I feel like both "men" and "them" are referring specifically to the previous "Knights Radiants". The author would then not be a Radiant, but could still be human.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Aether

[Bloodfalcon he/him]

Which I interpreted as implying that the Everstorm had not yet been summoned, and that the four mentioned had not yet "awakened." I'd think that by the end the book, the Everstorm is not looming anymore.

Good catch, but I think that it is actually confirmation that the Everstorm HAS been summoned. They have knowledge of the Everstorm in general, which really nobody did, and it is about to come down on Roshar at the end of the book. It is looming in the sense that it is summooned and on its way, but not yet hitting Roshar in its first real sweep of the land.

[Sphinx]

I guess I just don't see how this could possibly be anyone reflecting on a period of time. It seems like both are written by someone who just experienced them. 

 

The lines in red text show someone who acknowledges the past, speaks in the present tense, speaks with uncertainty about the future, but also speaks with certainty on the future - as much as anyone might speak with certainty about the future.

There is a very noticeable difference in knowledge that starts with uncertainty on whether the magic of Surgebinding will be brought back, and continues with known Surgebinding Orders attached to the people that were spoken of previously. So there is obvious progression of knowledge that seems to point directly away from the thought that it is someone looking back on the events of the Stormlight Archive. If that is the case, It's not Dalinar, Szeth, Kaladin, Shallan, etc. They are all experiencing these things, but they don't seem to have the knowledge. We also have confirmation it's not one of the KR, correct? So we've kind of ruled them out to begin with. 

 

I definitely agree with you on reading them as a progression of knowledge, rather than as written at the same time as a backward looking thing over the entire arc of the stormlight archives.

 

But I'd argue even further that it doesn't make sense for them to be written at the end of each book. The present text in each describes things as they are in the middle of the book, not as they are at the end. I'd say that Kaladin's text in particular in the second one "The Windrunner, lost in a shattered land, balanced upon the boundary between  vengeance and honor" doesn't match up with his firm step away from vengeance towards honor.

 

Good catch, but I think that it is actually confirmation that the Everstorm HAS been summoned. They have knowledge of the Everstorm in general, which really nobody did, and it is about to come down on Roshar at the end of the book. It is looming in the sense that it is summooned and on its way, but not yet hitting Roshar in its first real sweep of the land.

 

Except that the death rattle for the prologue of the way of kings is "“The love of men is a frigid thing, a mountain stream only three steps from the ice. We are his. Oh Stormfather…we are his. It is but a thousand days, and the Everstorm comes.” for chapter 5: “I have seen the end, and have heard it named. The Night of Sorrows, the True Desolation. The Everstorm.”

 

Dalinar's visions say: “Unite them. The sun approaches the horizon. The Everstorm comes. The True Desolation. The Night of Sorrows.” and later “I have said I that cannot be of much help to you. The Night of Sorrows will come, and the True Desolation. The Everstorm.” It's strongly suggested that at least Gavilar had these visions before Dalinar, and that he's discussed them with more than one of the secret societies operating in Roshar.

 

So clearly there are multiple possible sources for prophetic visions of the Everstorm, and multiple ways for people to have knowledge of the Everstorm's approach years prior to the Everstorm's summoning. "The Everstorm looms" does not indicate much more understanding of the Everstorm than what is present in the above quotes, and if someone has knowledge of the last desolations, it seems reasonable that they have some knowledge of the Everstorm.

 

 

 

I am not so sure that we can assuredly say that the writer is not human:

I don't think that the last two sentences here are quite as tightly linked as has been suggested. I feel like both "men" and "them" are referring specifically to the previous "Knights Radiants". The author would then not be a Radiant, but could still be human.

As I mentioned, I'm not convinced the writer is a nonhuman. I just think it's an intriguing possibility, and as it hadn't been brought up yet, I thought I'd go ahead and throw it out there. The line breaks caused me to separate "men" from the "knights radiant," which may or may not be a valid way of reading it.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Sphinx

[Aether he/him]

As I mentioned, I'm not convinced the writer is a nonhuman. I just think it's an intriguing possibility, and as it hadn't been brought up yet, I thought I'd go ahead and throw it out there. The line breaks caused me to separate "men" from the "knights radiant," which may or may not be a valid way of reading it.

You might be right, but it can still be interpreted as referring to a specific group of people. "That which was lost" could refer to the search for Stormseat or Urithiru, and the proclaimed destruction could then be limited to them.

[Bloodfalcon he/him]

I definitely agree with you on reading them as a progression of knowledge, rather than as written at the same time as a backward looking thing over the entire arc of the stormlight archives.

 

But I'd argue even further that it doesn't make sense for them to be written at the end of each book. The present text in each describes things as they are in the middle of the book, not as they are at the end. I'd say that Kaladin's text in particular in the second one "The Windrunner, lost in a shattered land, balanced upon the boundary between  vengeance and honor" doesn't match up with his firm step away from vengeance towards honor.

 

 

Except that the death rattle for the prologue of the way of kings is "“The love of men is a frigid thing, a mountain stream only three steps from the ice. We are his. Oh Stormfather…we are his. It is but a thousand days, and the Everstorm comes.” for chapter 5: “I have seen the end, and have heard it named. The Night of Sorrows, the True Desolation. The Everstorm.”

 

Dalinar's visions say: “Unite them. The sun approaches the horizon. The Everstorm comes. The True Desolation. The Night of Sorrows.” and later “I have said I that cannot be of much help to you. The Night of Sorrows will come, and the True Desolation. The Everstorm.” It's strongly suggested that at least Gavilar had these visions before Dalinar, and that he's discussed them with more than one of the secret societies operating in Roshar.

 

So clearly there are multiple possible sources for prophetic visions of the Everstorm, and multiple ways for people to have knowledge of the Everstorm's approach years prior to the Everstorm's summoning. "The Everstorm looms" does not indicate much more understanding of the Everstorm than what is present in the above quotes, and if someone has knowledge of the last desolations, it seems reasonable that they have some knowledge of the Everstorm.

 

On Kaladin: He did take quite a step away. Totally possible it is a view from right around that time then. My main point was to say that I don't think it's a retrospective journal, which seemed to be a popular guess for whatever reason. 

 

On the Everstorm: Great evidence. I don't think that it disproves what stage of the book they are at, but you are right that it is a word that people could know I suppose, if only a few. 

The last chunk of WoR (and I assume even the beginning of SA3) was jam packed into just a few days, so whether or not the author had knowledge of something very personal to Kaladin, or knew of the Everstorm - it might just be a matter of news getting back. Kaladin specifically could be a matter of observation over time. Unless you were Syl or the Stormfather, you might not know immediately how Kaladin's attitude had changed in those couple hours/days between him swearing the Ideal and the end of the book. 

EDIT: This topic is reminding me how difficult it must be as a writer to put yourself into the mind/scene/time of a specific character and write as though you have all of their knowledge. There are so many things to juggle!

Edited April 29, 2014 by Bloodfalcon

[Bloodfalcon he/him]

And issue with the Stone Shamans is that one of the only things we know about them is that Szeth concludes they were wrong to name him Truthless, on the sole evidence that he met a Windrunner. We don't know the reasoning or even the conclusion, just that the Stone Shamans definitely don't expect KRs to return.

 

Unless they lied to Szeth, I guess. Give him an Honorblade, give him every reason to want to kill you when he finds out the truth, and just let him go? I suppose it's possible, if they have a prophecy about it. Perhaps they know the Shin culture is destroyed at the start of the Last Desolation, and they ritualistically name anyone who claims the end has come as Truthless, knowing that one time the Truthless will be right, and will come back and destroy them.

 

I had to totally make that up though.

 

Taravangian set up the entire Truthless "event" to begin with. So we don't know if the stone shamans are being tricked by him or if they are in league with him, but we know it is a manufactured event either way. I'd say that definitely opens things up the the scenario you described.

[Moogle]

Taravangian set up the entire Truthless "event" to begin with. So we don't know if the stone shamans are being tricked by him or if they are in league with him, but we know it is a manufactured event either way. I'd say that definitely opens things up the the scenario you described.

 

I'm not so sure on Taravangian. He writes that he wants to make a Truthless and a weapon, but he only wrote the Diagram after Gavilar died. I find it unlikely that Taravangian was responsible for Szeth's social status.

[Pathfinder]

Could it be the Ardentia? They have tons of knowledge regarding soulcasters, they altered historical texts, they are a group, when they were the Hierachrocy (totally butchered the spelling sorry), they supposedly had foretelling abilities which would explain how they knew who would become radiants. I think there are more reasons, but these are just a few off the top of my head

[Left he/him]

I would hazard a guess at the Vorins, but that's really from a lack of negatives against them then for any positive reasons for it being them. It could also be the Stone Shamans although as I write this I'm remembering that they don't believe Szeth about voidbringers, so never mind.

Edited April 30, 2014 by CalebTheGeek

[Kobold King he/him]

I would hazard a guess at the Vorins, but that's really from a lack of negatives against them then for any positive reasons for it being them. It could also be the Stone Shamans although as I write this I'm remembering that they don't believe Szeth about voidbringers, so never mind.

 

We don't know what they believe. We only know what they claim. Maybe they're aware of the Everstorm but want to keep it quiet for their own inscrutable reasons.