Ambitions Avatar she/her Posted September 7, 2018 Report Share Posted September 7, 2018 So I have been doing research for the wiki on the Ryshadium, Sureblood and Gallant. And as I have been looking back through Oathbringer I have noticed some interesting development and a lot of glaring gaps when it comes to the Ryshadium, specifically the way they choose a rider. Every time in every book when taming the Ryshadium or being chosen by a Ryshadium is brought up it is vague or cut off in the characters thoughts. I am starting to think this is on purpose. We know that you must be chosen by a Ryshadium otherwise they cannot be tamed, we don't know anything about this process. Additionally there is some interesting development with Dalinar in relation to horses in the flashbacks of Oathbringer. At the beginning he rides a horse and doesn't care at all when he breaks it's back in battle, compared to now when he has this special connection with Gallant. For me that shows a lot of development in a lot of ways. He went from a man who would never be chosen by a Ryshadium, to one who was chosen. Also does anyone have any theories as to why music spren would be seen around Ryshadium? Are there any book descriptions of music spren? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corax Posted September 7, 2018 Report Share Posted September 7, 2018 (edited) They are described, and the Coppermind says this: Musicspren “Musicspren zipped through the air around [the drummers], the tiny spirits taking the form of spinning translucent ribbons.”— The Way of Kings: Prologue They, like the greatshells and the skyeels, have a symbiotic relationship with spren. Edited September 7, 2018 by Corax Formatting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes he/him Posted September 7, 2018 Report Share Posted September 7, 2018 Interesting thoughts. I myself have never really, um, thought about this, since I've always taken it for granted that Dalinar has changed a lot over the course of his life. Enough to ride a Ryshadium years after carelessly breaking the back of another horse. The breed itself has a lot of Connection to Roshar, I think. They have tougher hooves than other breeds of horses, and, of course, attract musicspren, which, as Corax just said, hints to a symbiotic relationship with spren. So a good question to ask would probably be: Why do they need this relationship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corax Posted September 7, 2018 Report Share Posted September 7, 2018 (edited) I'll add that there are several WoBs about this on the Arcanum. So many that I can't choose which to copy over, hence the link. Edited September 7, 2018 by Corax Aaaargh, typos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitions Avatar she/her Posted September 7, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2018 Thanks Corax, I will definitely look into this. That description helps since they don't pop up that often. So where are the instances of music spren around great shells and skyeels? Why would it be musicspren of all types of spren. My curiosity is that Brandon is clearly holding back on this topic in the books and in WOB's which makes me think it will be relevant either for world understanding or plot later on. Now that I am looking exclusively at that topic it looks really suspicious. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainier Posted September 7, 2018 Report Share Posted September 7, 2018 I wouldn't be surprised if Rhyshadium were something like horse-radiants who bond a spren. There's got to be some explanation of how such a foreign animal survived and formed a symbiotic relationship with the native magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitions Avatar she/her Posted September 7, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2018 Agreed, in one of the books they go so far as to call them "the third shard" along with plate and blade. I'd be interested to find out where in the history they came about because they are clearly important for carrying shardbearers. Since they came over from Ashyn with humans at what point did they start to form a spren bond? As far as I can remember there weren't mentions of them in the history we have gotten so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corax Posted September 7, 2018 Report Share Posted September 7, 2018 (edited) Greatshells and skyeels have a symbiosis with a different kind of spren, referred to colloquially as luckspren. As for Ryshadium, they likely came with the first humans to Roshar, whenever that was. They don't seem to be very well-known on a Cosmere-wide scale, because Wit remarks that they were a surprise to him; something he didn't expect. ETA: Oathbringer spoiler Spoiler It is likely that the luckspren are the same things known in the cognitive realm as mandras. Edited September 7, 2018 by Corax Additional info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted September 7, 2018 Report Share Posted September 7, 2018 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Corax said: They are described, and the Coppermind says this: Musicspren “Musicspren zipped through the air around [the drummers], the tiny spirits taking the form of spinning translucent ribbons.”— The Way of Kings: Prologue They, like the greatshells and the skyeels, have a symbiotic relationship with spren. I actually disagree with this. Quote Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] I'm really curious about Ryshadium. Is there something bigger about them? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] It's not super-huge. They are non-native species who have started to form spren bonds like native species do. So, a symbiotic bond with a spren has started happening. Ryshadium are horses that have done that, basically. You could say that humans have done the same thing. Non-native species that have started to form spren bonds. The Ryshadium are the only other non-native species that that has started happening. Like the chasmfiends have a symbiotic relationship with the spren that they have, the Ryshadium have a spren. It's not as visible, but it is there. source I think that the Spren that Ryshadium bond with is not one seen around them. I think they attract musicspren because at their level of intellect, they are literally making music for each other as they run. Neighs, brays, winneys and hoof beats. They are intelligent enough to make music and so the Spren come. Edited September 7, 2018 by Calderis 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitions Avatar she/her Posted September 7, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2018 Calderis, I think you are probably right. I like the idea of thinking that the Ryshadium are just musical creatures, maybe it comes with the intelligence. But what type of spren would they have to bond to gain almost sapient levels of awareness? I don't think that the lesser spren could grant that unless I am mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corax Posted September 7, 2018 Report Share Posted September 7, 2018 I'm not sure I agree with you @Calderis but it's certainly an interesting way to look at it. I definitely like the idea of Ryshadium being sapient enough to attract spren! I sort of hope you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wreith he/him Posted September 7, 2018 Report Share Posted September 7, 2018 I hadn't thought along the lines of their music being intentional. I was thinking their spren bonding gave them a connection to the Rhythms. So intelligence approaching sapience wouldn't be a necessary requirement. Just a deeper connection to Roshar which a lesser spren might provide resulting in a natural instinct to follow the rhythms. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted September 7, 2018 Report Share Posted September 7, 2018 8 minutes ago, Wreith said: I hadn't thought along the lines of their music being intentional. I was thinking their spren bonding gave them a connection to the Rhythms. So intelligence approaching sapience wouldn't be a necessary requirement. Just a deeper connection to Roshar which a lesser spren might provide resulting in a natural instinct to follow the rhythms. Khriss at least believes they're that smart. From the AU Roshar Essay Quote Certain animals obtain flight through similar means, and there is even a race of equines that—through the spren bond—have adapted to life on the planet and obtained a high enough level of self-awareness to nearly be named a sapient species. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I think I am here. he/him Posted September 7, 2018 Report Share Posted September 7, 2018 (edited) Connectionspren? Assuming it exists. Ryshadium need it to adapt and live on Roshar (connection to rythms a side-effect) and spren would need it for the same reason any spren needs a bond. Compared with other spren we’ve seen, I don’t think Connectionspren is that big of a stretch. EDIT: Connectionspren also explain how one has to bond (Connect) to the Ryshadium to mount it, and how they can’t be chosen like normal horses. Another Connection side effect. Edited September 7, 2018 by I think I am here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitions Avatar she/her Posted September 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2018 I think that the idea they may be singing their own rhythms is really cool and would explain the music spren. I really hope we get more about this in future books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormfather-in-Law Posted September 9, 2018 Report Share Posted September 9, 2018 I agree that something about this topic is definitely being held back. Even in my first read through of OB, I found myself anticipating the scene where Dalinar bonds with Gallant, but of course it it did not show up. Surely this was an important enough event in Dalinar's life? The fact that it was glazed over does let loose a few anticpationspren about what it might mean. All we've seen is a hint of the process with regard to Adolin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitions Avatar she/her Posted September 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2018 I know, I was reading through the flashbacks again and nothing. It seems like hat would be a good character/world building moment, but it's still being withheld. Maybe in Stormlight four . . . @Stormfather-in-Law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersmith Posted September 10, 2018 Report Share Posted September 10, 2018 Quote Questioner Where in Roshar do Ryshadiums come from? Brandon Sanderson That's a RAFO. I will answer it soon. Questioner Will we find out in Stormlight 3? Brandon Sanderson Yeah. Oh Brandon you tease Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veiled Posted September 11, 2018 Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 What about the possibility they aren't actually music spren? Some spren haven't even been identified. It could be a mistake of Rosharian humans' understanding. I'm new to the cosmere, only having read SA, but that seems like something Sanderson would do. Not saying I believe this but it's the second possibility I considered and no one has mentioned it yet, so... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corax Posted September 11, 2018 Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 8 hours ago, Veiled said: What about the possibility they aren't actually music spren? Some spren haven't even been identified. It could be a mistake of Rosharian humans' understanding. I'm new to the cosmere, only having read SA, but that seems like something Sanderson would do. Not saying I believe this but it's the second possibility I considered and no one has mentioned it yet, so... That's a good observation, I think. Spren are named by humans, and we are super prone to conflating correlation with causation. That being said, musicspren seem fairly well known to our viewpoint characters, music being a traditional feminine talent in Vorin culture. And simply being viewed as musicspren, written about as musicspren... I think that would influence their intent (for lack of a better word). At least to a small extent. Spren are weird. Cool. But weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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