[OB] Underwhelming

[Walkerxes]

4 minutes ago, IronBars said:

Ok i read that differently to you it seems, 

This part: 

"In the past, Honor was able to guard against this, the Stormfather told him. He convinced the Radiants they were righteous, even if this land hadn’t originally been theirs. Who cares what your ancestors did, when the enemy is trying to kill you right now?"

i take it to mean in the past when the KR found out they were the voidbringers honor soothed the revelation.

"But in the days leading to the Recreance, Honor was dying. When that generation of knights learned the truth, Honor did not support them. He raved, speaking of the Dawnshards, ancient weapons used to destroy the Tranquiline Halls. Honor … promised that Surgebinders would do the same to Roshar."

This time he didnt, and said how they would destroy the world, 

Hence why i said above:

This implied to me that the main reason for the recreance was in fact that revelation, and that the destroying of the planet was a secondary reason after they realised (more acurrately they believed wrongly) the desolations were at an end and if left unchecked they could potentially destroy roshar because they didnt trust themselves not to eventully abuse there powers.

normally honour was there to tell them it was ok, this time he told them how it wouldnt be ok, 

so i see the number 1 reason being the voidbringer fact and the number 2 reason being what there powers might do now the desolations are in there mind over

This was how I saw the Recreance... Not that "OMG we're voidbringers we need to kill our spren!!11#$$"... But more.. they knew that originally humans were the voidbringers, and at some point Honor decided they were worthy, and at the same time, the Parsh turned to Odium instead of staying with Honor.. but before Honor let the humans know that, in spite of their origins, they were ok and just... Until Honor was in his death throws.. when he started raving about Dawnshards and how humans would destroy Roshar. It was losing Honor's favor that caused the Recreance, not knowledge of where they came from. That's how it read to me.

 

As to why the Parsh turned to Odium.. that we still have to learn

[RShara she/her]

10 minutes ago, IronBars said:

Ok i read that differently to you it seems, 

This part: 

"In the past, Honor was able to guard against this, the Stormfather told him. He convinced the Radiants they were righteous, even if this land hadn’t originally been theirs. Who cares what your ancestors did, when the enemy is trying to kill you right now?"

i take it to mean in the past when the KR found out they were the voidbringers honor soothed the revelation.

"But in the days leading to the Recreance, Honor was dying. When that generation of knights learned the truth, Honor did not support them. He raved, speaking of the Dawnshards, ancient weapons used to destroy the Tranquiline Halls. Honor … promised that Surgebinders would do the same to Roshar."

This time he didnt, and said how they would destroy the world, 

Hence why i said above:

This implied to me that the main reason for the recreance was in fact that revelation, and that the destroying of the planet was a secondary reason after they realised (more acurrately they believed wrongly) the desolations were at an end and if left unchecked they could potentially destroy roshar because they didnt trust themselves not to eventully abuse there powers.

normally honour was there to tell them it was ok, this time he told them how it wouldnt be ok, 

so i see the number 1 reason being the voidbringer fact and the number 2 reason being what there powers might do now the desolations are in there mind are over

No, because they've known before about being the original Voidbringers and didn't freak out.  So yes, Honor reassured them, which was great.  This time, he not only didn't reassure them, he promised they would destroy the world.  Destroying the world in the near future is a WAY bigger issue than some even that happened thousands of years in the past.

 

The Stormfather clinches it when he says, " They tried to protect the world. "

Not they felt guilty.  Not they sought repentence.  They tried. To protect.  The world.

[IronBars he/him]

4 minutes ago, Walkerxes said:

This was how I saw the Recreance... Not that "OMG we're voidbringers we need to kill our spren!!11#$$"... But more.. they knew that originally humans were the voidbringers, and at some point Honor decided they were worthy, and at the same time, the Parsh turned to Odium instead of staying with Honor.. but before Honor let the humans know that, in spite of their origins, they were ok and just... Until Honor was in his death throws.. when he started raving about Dawnshards and how humans would destroy Roshar. It was losing Honor's favor that caused the Recreance, not knowledge of where they came from. That's how it read to me.

 

As to why the Parsh turned to Odium.. that we still have to learn

The losing honours favour is a good point and i can see that being the real reason not the destroying the world or the voidbringer revelation.

If thats what you meant ?

4 minutes ago, RShara said:

No, because they've known before about being the original Voidbringers and didn't freak out.  So yes, Honor reassured them, which was great.  This time, he not only didn't reassure them, he promised they would destroy the world.  Destroying the world in the near future is a WAY bigger issue than some even that happened thousands of years in the past.

 

The Stormfather clinches it when he says, " They tried to protect the world. "

Not they felt guilty.  Not they sought repentence.  They tried. To protect.  The world.

They didnt know before, the KR aa an order knew before but that generation of KR didnt, 

As i said above i lean toward, @Walkerxes interpretation, seems more fitting.

[Walkerxes]

As for Shallan being trustworthy.. I believe we're supposed to suspect exactly that.. in WoR they even mention the esoteric nature of Lightweavers. They base what they do in lies (lightweaving), and or force their truths (soulcasting) to be seen.. part of why their ideals aren't oaths, but self truths, since so much of what they do is founded in falsehood

[Walkerxes]

4 minutes ago, IronBars said:

The losing honours favour is a good point and i can see that being the real reason not the destroying the world or the voidbringer revelation.

If thats what you meant ?

They didnt know before, the KR aa an order knew before but that generation of KR didnt, 

As i said above i lean toward, @Walkerxes interpretation, seems more fitting.

That's what I believe from what I read.. not that the discovery that they were voidbringers, but the perceived loss of Honor's favor is what caused the Recreance

[IronBars he/him]

1 minute ago, Walkerxes said:

That's what I believe from what I read.. not that the discovery that they were voidbringers, but the perceived loss of Honor's favor is what caused the Recreance

I think this makes more sense then how i read it or rsharas and others interpretation.

[RShara she/her]

Sure, whatever works for you

[wotbibliophile]

29 minutes ago, IronBars said:

Just to say i didnt dislike the shadesmar, section, just the premise of why they were there, and what it served in the book, if shallan had gone there while training her surges for example i would of been on board with it, but seemed to only serve getting kaladin away from dalinar for long enough rather then any other reason

 

I agree that the premise is weak, but this falls under the rule of cool for me. The Shadesmar section was cool enough for me to wave away their reason for being there and to wave away the way it did not advance the plot.

[Walkerxes]

2 minutes ago, wotbibliophile said:

 

I agree that the premise is weak, but this falls under the rule of cool for me. The Shadesmar section was cool enough for me to wave away their reason for being there and to wave away the way it did not advance the plot.

I think it did advance the plot, though.. because otherwise they'd all be dead. Instead Sja-anat saved them and sent them to Shadesmar. I believe Sja-anat's defection to the side of the radiant's will come in to play further.. beyond being why Renarin and Glys are still "good guys".. considering Sja-anat is the cause of corrupted spren

[Walkerxes]

Also the Shadesmar plot, I believe, was there to further Adolin's relationship with Maya, who he will eventually bring back to life, thus gaining his Radience

[agrabes]

2 hours ago, Calderis said:

Amaram bothers me too, but that's more a matter of showing instead of telling. 

Amaram was a zealot. When the faith of a zealot breaks it shatters hard. If we had seen his reaction to reading about the vision of the Heralds abandoning the Oathpact, that would have been enough for me, but being told about it after the fact bothers me. 

Another issue to me about Amaram was not just his own sudden turn but also the turn of how characters acted around him.  The scene with Amaram and Jasnah in particular just felt wrong.  Amaram pretty much confessed what he did and why (at least the surface layers that he took the shardblade and plate because he felt he was the best person to use them) which, while mean and petty are probably not all that out of line from the way many of the nobles felt and acted.  And yet, instead of polite distaste and distance like the way they handled Sadeas who did things that were just as morally wrong the "good guys" are yelling out juvenile insults at Amaram.   It seemed out of character to me, way too "on the nose."

 

Anyway, to turn all this back to the original point of the thread, I'll say my order liking the three SA books is 1 WoR, 2 WoK, significant gap, 3 OB.  I was pretty disappointed in OB, I still liked it but felt it was a significant drop from WoR and here are my reasons:

1) The story lacked focus and spent too much time with minor characters like Bridge 4.  I like Bridge 4, but let's keep them where they were before: essentially accessories to Kaladin and his stories.

2) Shallan's regression.  I don't think it's unrealistic and I do agree that it is character development, but it wasn't pleasant to read.  Not only was it not pleasant to read, but I felt like there wasn't a big payoff to that.  I could have gotten behind it (though been very sad) if her regression led to some real consequences for her or the anti-Odium alliance.  Like, for example, if Shallan had given in to the Unmade during a low moment or Veil had actually taken over completely and become the "main" persona.  Instead, we had an arc where she did have a lot of problems and struggles but they never really came to a head with major consequences and she also never made significant progress in getting over them.

3) Szeth's entire plotline.  I liked Szeth as sort of an independent character who had his own loyalties and morals.  Moving him over to the "good guys" without a significant feeling out period felt unearned.  I wanted to see plot lines with them Szeth and Dalinar each doing what they think is right in their own way and butting heads before eventually teaming up or becoming enemies.

4) This is super subjective and there's an entire 90+ page thread on this, but the love triangle resolution bothered me quite a bit.  It felt good and mostly natural up until Kaladin's little reflection at the end.  The line about Kaladin feeling "agreement" felt like Sanderson basically saying "Ok guys, this love triangle is done, I'm serious."  I would have rather seen the Shalladin ship, but even if it turned out with Shallan/Adolin I would have rather seen Kaladin sort of upset over it for a while.  I would have liked a plot line in Book 4 where he intentionally avoided seeing the two of them (Shallan/Adolin) together for a while, which eventually Shallan picks up on and they have a scene together where they finally talk for real and have some closure.  Instead, we got a Deus Ex Machina voice saying "This is how it is and all the characters are OK with it.  There will be no further advancements on this front, so deal with it."  I may or may not be right about that and we don't need to rehash that here, but that's how it read to me.

[Calderis he/him]

The Recreance was not due to a single thing. It was a combination of many things in fairly rapid succession. 

The revelation that they were the invaders, immediately followed by Honor not only confirming that they had destroyed their own world but would destroy this one. Then you have the false desolation continuing the fight that the Heralds promised them was over, and the way in which they ended it by lobotomizing and forcing them to enslave/care for an entire species. 

Altogether it adds up to the Radiants not being who or what they thought. 

Edited February 20, 2018 by Calderis

[Walkerxes]

5 minutes ago, agrabes said:

Another issue to me about Amaram was not just his own sudden turn but also the turn of how characters acted around him.  The scene with Amaram and Jasnah in particular just felt wrong.  Amaram pretty much confessed what he did and why (at least the surface layers that he took the shardblade and plate because he felt he was the best person to use them) which, while mean and petty are probably not all that out of line from the way many of the nobles felt and acted.  And yet, instead of polite distaste and distance like the way they handled Sadeas who did things that were just as morally wrong the "good guys" are yelling out juvenile insults at Amaram.   It seemed out of character to me, way too "on the nose."

 

Anyway, to turn all this back to the original point of the thread, I'll say my order liking the three SA books is 1 WoR, 2 WoK, significant gap, 3 OB.  I was pretty disappointed in OB, I still liked it but felt it was a significant drop from WoR and here are my reasons:

1) The story lacked focus and spent too much time with minor characters like Bridge 4.  I like Bridge 4, but let's keep them where they were before: essentially accessories to Kaladin and his stories.

2) Shallan's regression.  I don't think it's unrealistic and I do agree that it is character development, but it wasn't pleasant to read.  Not only was it not pleasant to read, but I felt like there wasn't a big payoff to that.  I could have gotten behind it (though been very sad) if her regression led to some real consequences for her or the anti-Odium alliance.  Like, for example, if Shallan had given in to the Unmade during a low moment or Veil had actually taken over completely and become the "main" persona.  Instead, we had an arc where she did have a lot of problems and struggles but they never really came to a head with major consequences and she also never made significant progress in getting over them.

3) Szeth's entire plotline.  I liked Szeth as sort of an independent character who had his own loyalties and morals.  Moving him over to the "good guys" without a significant feeling out period felt unearned.  I wanted to see plot lines with them Szeth and Dalinar each doing what they think is right in their own way and butting heads before eventually teaming up or becoming enemies.

4) This is super subjective and there's an entire 90+ page thread on this, but the love triangle resolution bothered me quite a bit.  It felt good and mostly natural up until Kaladin's little reflection at the end.  The line about Kaladin feeling "agreement" felt like Sanderson basically saying "Ok guys, this love triangle is done, I'm serious."  I would have rather seen the Shalladin ship, but even if it turned out with Shallan/Adolin I would have rather seen Kaladin sort of upset over it for a while.  I would have liked a plot line in Book 4 where he intentionally avoided seeing the two of them (Shallan/Adolin) together for a while, which eventually Shallan picks up on and they have a scene together where they finally talk for real and have some closure.  Instead, we got a Deus Ex Machina voice saying "This is how it is and all the characters are OK with it.  There will be no further advancements on this front, so deal with it."  I may or may not be right about that and we don't need to rehash that here, but that's how it read to me.

I actually felt that the addition of an Adolin/Kaladin/Shallan love triangle was a copout. She was all about Adolin until falling into the chasm.. not to mention there's nothing in common with Kaladin and Shallan. I felt that the "love triangle" was needless filler for a Kardashian audience. Unnecessary. Lyn would be a way better fit for Kaladin anyway. Shallan is simply the only thing we have for a female protagonist, so hinting at a romance for the man male protagonist (Kaladin) is almost obligatory. So Sanderson toyed with it to meet expectations, then subsequently rejected it because, in the end, Adolin makes the absolute most sense for Shallan. I highly doubt we'll even see a Kaladin romance. It's unnecessary. He's all about protecting people, not wooing the local women.

[Calderis he/him]

14 minutes ago, agrabes said:

And yet, instead of polite distaste and distance like the way they handled Sadeas who did things that were just as morally wrong the "good guys" are yelling out juvenile insults at Amaram.   It seemed out of character to me, way too "on the nose."

I felt that this was an expression of something more personal in the past relationship of Jasnah and Amaram specifically, which was hinted out in both Jasnah's Prologue and the beginning of that very conversation. 

[Walkerxes]

Needless to say, I'm glad he nipped it in the bud instead of dragging out a half-assed love triangle for another 3 books or more. Now we don't have to worry about it. It's done. Shallan and Adolin. Move on.

 

12 hours ago, Calderis said:

I felt that this was an expression of something more personal in the past relationship of Jasnah and Amaram specifically, which was hinted out in both Jasnah's Prologue and the beginning of that very conversation. 

Definitely.. that went way deeper than "we're so Kholin and you're so Sadeus".. that was "I'm letting out my personal issues, in spite of my better judgement"

[Alderant she/her]

8 minutes ago, Walkerxes said:

I actually felt that the addition of an Adolin/Kaladin/Shallan love triangle was a copout. She was all about Adolin until falling into the chasm.. not to mention there's nothing in common with Kaladin and Shallan. I felt that the "love triangle" was needless filler for a Kardashian audience. Unnecessary. Lyn would be a way better fit for Kaladin anyway. Shallan is simply the only thing we have for a female protagonist, so hinting at a romance for the man male protagonist (Kaladin) is almost obligatory. So Sanderson toyed with it to meet expectations, then subsequently rejected it because, in the end, Adolin makes the absolute most sense for Shallan. I highly doubt we'll even see a Kaladin romance. It's unnecessary. He's all about protecting people, not wooing the local women.

Please keep shipping discussion to the Adolin-Kaladin-Shallan discussion board... this specific topic has been debated already over there. 

[Walkerxes]

Just now, Alderant said:

Please keep shipping discussion to the Adolin-Kaladin-Shallan discussion board... this specific topic has been debated already over there. 

Fair enough, will do.

[Alderant she/her]

1 minute ago, Walkerxes said:

Fair enough, will do.

It’s just because there are a lot of people on here who are really tired about the subject, so we try to restrain it to one board to keep it isolated for the good of the community. I will debate you over there any time though.

[Walkerxes]

4 minutes ago, Alderant said:

It’s just because there are a lot of people on here who are really tired about the subject, so we try to restrain it to one board to keep it isolated for the good of the community. I will debate you over there any time though.

I only brought it up as a response to someone else's comment, as they brought up the triangle resolution as a point of dissatisfaction with OB.. where as I'm happy to see it so that it won't sully the next 7 books

[Calderis he/him]

23 minutes ago, Walkerxes said:

I only brought it up as a response to someone else's comment, as they brought up the triangle resolution as a point of dissatisfaction with OB.. where as I'm happy to see it so that it won't sully the next 7 books

Even if it hadn't been resolved we wouldn't be dealing with it that heavily for that long. This arc ends after SA 5,then there's a 10-15 year gap in which the focus characters of this arc shift into the background roles that the 5 in the back half hold here. 

So the front half is focused on Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar, Szeth and Eshonai/Venli, while the back half is focused on Lift, Renarin, Jasnah, Ash, and Taln. 

Edited February 20, 2018 by Calderis

[Walkerxes]

11 hours ago, Calderis said:

Even if it hadn't been resolved we wouldn't be dealing with it that heavily for that long. This arc ends after SA 5,then there's a 10-15 year gap in which the focus characters of this arc shift into the background roles that the 5 in the back half hold here. 

So the front half is focused on Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar, Szeth and Eshonai/Venli, while the back half is focused on Lift, Renarin, Jasnah, Ash, and Taln. 

I think you're missing Adolin in your back-half list.. it's pretty obvious he will revive Maya and gain Radiant status.. so I believe he'll come into further focus later.. and if theories about Dalinar as Adonalsium are true, he'll never truly leave limelight

 

But those are likely topics for other threads

Edited February 20, 2018 by Greywatch
Remember to edit your posts, not double post.

[Calderis he/him]

3 minutes ago, Walkerxes said:

I think you're missing Adolin in your back-half list.. it's pretty obvious he will revive Maya and gain Radiant status.. so I believe he'll come into further focus later.. and if theories about Dalinar as Adonalsium are true, he'll never truly leave limelight

Yeah, not touching those. Both are outside the point I was making anyway 

[Song she/her]

I can't speak for the mechanics of firemoss addiction, but I think there are very good reasons why Teft spirals out of control in OB.

He is overwhelmed with guilt over the death of his family. Not only did his actions lead to their death, but their belief in the Radiants is now somewhat justified.  They were right, Teft was wrong and they paid for their lives for his mistakes.

Teft is now in a position of power and prestige, and he feels he doesn't deserve it and that he will let everybody down. He gets back into firemoss, which makes him feel even more guilty and scared he will betray Bridge 4, so he uses more and it spirals out of control.

And he is a Radiant, which was exactly what his family wanted. He must have felt so undeserving, as comes through in his dealings with his spren. 

I don't know about the way firemoss works, but there are good reasons why as life gets better for Teft, his grief and guilt grow to a point where he can't cope.

[Walkerxes]

39 minutes ago, Song said:

I can't speak for the mechanics of firemoss addiction, but I think there are very good reasons why Teft spirals out of control in OB.

He is overwhelmed with guilt over the death of his family. Not only did his actions lead to their death, but their belief in the Radiants is now somewhat justified.  They were right, Teft was wrong and they paid for their lives for his mistakes.

Teft is now in a position of power and prestige, and he feels he doesn't deserve it and that he will let everybody down. He gets back into firemoss, which makes him feel even more guilty and scared he will betray Bridge 4, so he uses more and it spirals out of control.

And he is a Radiant, which was exactly what his family wanted. He must have felt so undeserving, as comes through in his dealings with his spren. 

I don't know about the way firemoss works, but there are good reasons why as life gets better for Teft, his grief and guilt grow to a point where he can't cope.

Plus a direct reason he actually even gives.. the confrontation with Re-Shapir.. who was throwing up dark images of bridge 4.. the whole ordeal was taxing for all involved. The very kind of excuse any addict would latch on to.

[Guest]

17 hours ago, IronBars said:

My point with the lack of character progression/development is simply this, for a 1233 page novel the "progression/devolopement of the characters could of been done in 150/200 pages, with ease, thats 10% of the book, so in OB there is little to no character devolopments, shallen is the same person as in WoR and instesd of resolving some of her issues after swearing the 4th ideal of the lightweavers, her issues deepened, which makes little sense, her entire arc in OB was repetitive, and its not believeable that she can just keep lucking out with everything she does, she has no real skills, she comes across as very unintelligent even though she is meant to come across as very intelligent, and she just lucks out of situations for 3 books now. The whole love triangle thing with adolin/kaladin shouldnt even of existed, it was just stupid.

I do not quite agree Shallan's character arc could have realistically be condensed to 150/200 pages. There are parts where I agree the narrative could have benefit being shorter and/or supplement with additional viewpoints from characters such as Adolin. For instance, the chapter where Shallan steals food into a lighteyed house wasn't, IMHO, required. I would have much preferred reading Adolin/Elhokar at the party than Shallan being an idiot while stealing food. Or, if it was necessary for the narrative, I would have considerably shortened it. A lot of her "excursions" in Kholinar could have been shorten and Brandon could have find a way to make her dilemma more external. I am honestly surprised Brandon went for three internal arcs given it was one of the element he changed for WoK.

Part of Shallan's arc was to have her "fail" by keeping on lucking out on her skills, by keeping on thinking she knows everything. This was actually a great moment for her character, when she realizes she can't escape reality with her made-up personalities because no matter how much she pushes into them, they aren't real people. Veil is not real, she does not have the background Shallan wishes she has. She can't be Veil. Her arc was certainly not repetitive, but it was over-powering and very internal. Had it been just her arc which had been written out this way, I might have applaud, but the lack of Adolin and the Dalinar/Kaladin also very internal arcs made me dislike it.

I disagree the love triangle was "stupid". Readers have been shipping Kaladin with Shallan ever since WoK: the main male lead being paired with the main female lead is such a classic trope it isn't surprising readers thought of it even before both character ever met. The two characters also had a few heated exchanges which, again, fueled the shipping discussion. Their chasm adventure was also needed in order to have Kaladin start to re-asses his opinions of lighteyed and to admit he actually liked Adolin. Many readers read the whole scene was very romantic, they felt the characters had a "connection", hence it definitely was something Brandon had to further explore. Shallan/Veil's interest into Kaladin also serves to cement her love for Adolin: sometimes it is only when you about to lose something you realize how much you care about it. Admittedly, I would have preferred had Brandon went for something a tad more dramatic and emotion-filled as the denouement he chose, but I wouldn't say it is stupid or useless.

17 hours ago, IronBars said:

Kaladin was utterly wasted in this book.

As with kaladin adolin was wasted in this book. 

I disagree Kaladin was wasted in the book. He had less page time, this is true and he had a less over-powering story arc, but quite frankly I think this was a necessary change. Not all book could end with him saving the day and killing the big bad guy: it was terribly repetitive and it stopped being interesting after WoR. Kaladin needed to fail and to admit, sometimes, others can do the saving.

Adolin was not completely wasted, he did start the reviving process with Maya. We did get his backstory and the fleshing of his unhealthy relationship with Dalinar. What we did not get is a character arc of the same quality as other characters, even more minor ones, are getting. His character is too much of a foil and a plot device, after WoR, this was terribly disappointing ans something I wish Brandon would address. 

17 hours ago, IronBars said:

I also liked Szeth in the book, my point with him was it made no sense for him to swear the 3rd ideal of the skybreakers based on dalinar when he didnt know him, someone said he swore it because dalinars reputation, im not sure which reputatiion that is though, the one where dalinar is a bloodthirsty tyrant or the one where hes gone mad, either way makes no sense, and if Szeth doesnt react to the revelations about dalinar in book 4 then that is ridiculous. Also made no sense for kaladin to be cool with Szeth all of a sudden either. And as with Szeth if kaladin is ok with the revelations about dalinar it would be ridiculous

There wasnt enough bridge 4 viewpoints for me, i liked them all except the one where teft is suddenly out the blue a crack head, 

Dalinars flashbacks were good, just makes no sense the stormfather would choose him after seeing them. What we saw in tWoK and WoR of dalinar was a lie.

Id actually go so far as to say if Szeth and kaladin dont react badly to the revelations about dalinar and for sometime leave him in book 4 i will stop reading the SA because from everything we know of those two there should be a big reaction from both, and it just wouldnt make sense or be believable to think they be ok with it, 

My main issue with OB is as i said before, the story didnt progress and the characters didnt progress, the story could of been cut to 400 pages the character arcs progression could of been done in 150/200, thats 600 page book, we got a 1233 page book, the rest (half the book) was just filler for the sake of bulking the book out.

OB is actually my least favourite sanderson book, and seems SA is going downhill, tWoK = 5/5, WoR =4.5/5, OB = 3/5, 

If people don't agree thats fine its just my opinion

Szeth comes across as a follower, not a leader. This is why he was such the perfect Truthless: he never questioned orders. He seemed to be the kind of individual who genuinely want to be told what to do. In a world where everyone is lying and being dishonorable, he had no idea who to swear his third oath to. He didn't feel the laws of any country was strong enough, too fallible, so he went for the one individual he feels is honorable enough to be fair. Was it wise? Of course not, but I think it tells us loads about Szeth's personality. He does not want to make the call, but he wants to be attached to someone he'll have confidence will be making the right ones.

I was fine with the number of Bridge 4 viepwoints It was fun to read them, but let's be honest. They are minor characters: they take away page time from more important characters.

Dalinar questioned the Stormfather and asked him, had he remembered what he did, would he still have chosen him. The answer was uncertain hence, the Stormfather did not know about Dalinar's past because Dalinar couldn't remember it. Without it, he might have made another decision, but too late for that now.

This being said, I agree the story could have been trimmed down. Dalinar's chapters had a lot of repetition, but I would have used this page time to give other characters stronger narratives.