Spoolofwhool Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 36 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said: Here's a Venn diagram that hopefully clarifies the relationship between the 3 Realms. If any of this is incorrect, let me know and I will edit it. I am pretty sure this accurate, but the overlap between the cognitive and physical realms without the spiritual realm seems like it might not actually exist (because all matter started out as spiritual energy and that implies a connection to the spiritual realm on a fundamental level, but the distinction between inanimate matter that has a soul of an idea that is devoid of the kinetic Investiture energy of life and sentience might be forced to fit in this spot). I normally hate Venn diagrams, but I think is actually a useful visualization. You like diagrams don't you? Everything should have a spiritual and cognitive. The beads on Roshar are the cognitive representation of spiritual. Dead sprenblades exist in the cognitive.
+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine he/him Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 17 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said: Everything should have a spiritual and cognitive. The beads on Roshar are the cognitive representation of spiritual. Dead sprenblades exist in the cognitive. Probably the better visualization would be a 3 axis plot, where the 3 axis represent the degree of presence in the 3 different realms. Because, at least from my understanding, dead spren blades have a diminished cognitive presence because of the broken oaths, so while when they are summoned they exist in the Cognitive, physical and spiritual realm, their actual presence in the cognitive realm is diminished because they lost a good chunk of their mind (they obviously still have the part that allows them to screech like banshees, but the rest, not so sure. The scratched out eyes indicates too that they are unable to perceive their environment, and thus without the ability to gain new experience they are stuck in this lowered cognitive state). Here's another diagram () of what I'm talking about: The further along each axis the plotted entity is, the greater their presence in the given realm. Obviously how I've plotted these is subjective and somewhat arbitrary, but it would be a fun exercise to try and plot (based on textual evidence, and WoB's) where all of the major players would fit within this Realmatic presence box. Last diagram for a bit, I have to get back to work for reals now. 4
RShara she/her Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 (edited) Sorry. Even rocks and dirt and water have Spiritual aspects. Almost everything we see has ties to all three realms, with just a few exceptions, such as cognitive shadows. A rock's spiritweb, I'm sure, is just as strong as a human's. It's just different. Many types of spren have physical aspects, sapient or not. Dead sprenblades are weird. Ico's father is a deadeye that he keeps in his hold. He says that he would go wandering off to find the person holding his corpse. But why doesn't his father disappear when the Blade is summoned? Does he disappear and reappear in the same place? Or not disappear at all? It's weird, anyway. But deadeyes still have a very obvious cognitive presence, they just aren't sapient any longer. They also still have a spiritweb and a physical body, as we can see. I don't think we know enough about the Realms and the dwellers therein to really chart them out yet. Edited January 14, 2018 by RShara 1
Calderis he/him Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) Yeah, everything exists in the Spiritual. Absolutely everything. The Cognitive also appears to hold a representation of everything, it's just that living things have a much stronger presence there, and the Cognitive representations of inanimate objects are defined by the way living beings perceive them. The physical alone is a place in which something can be absent completely. Whether it be through persisting after death, or through creation as a Cognitive entity as per Spren. The degrees to which something exists in the physical vs Cognitive vary based on species... There's so much to this that we don't fully understand it's impossible to fully explain. Edited January 15, 2018 by Calderis 2
digitalbusker he/him Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 Given that you can only become a Cognitive Shadow through an infusion of Investiture, which is usually thought to come from the Spiritual realm, is it safe to say that a CS is already "stapled" to the Cognitive realm? That is to say, whatever's preserving one's mind is doing so by standing in for the piece of one that's already gone Beyond? Depending on what we decide to call that missing piece, this could have unfortunate associations for Cognitive Shadows (e.g. "soulless"), but it doesn't seem like being a CS has to change your personality (Threnodite shades excepted).
RShara she/her Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 23 minutes ago, digitalbusker said: Given that you can only become a Cognitive Shadow through an infusion of Investiture, which is usually thought to come from the Spiritual realm, is it safe to say that a CS is already "stapled" to the Cognitive realm? That is to say, whatever's preserving one's mind is doing so by standing in for the piece of one that's already gone Beyond? Depending on what we decide to call that missing piece, this could have unfortunate associations for Cognitive Shadows (e.g. "soulless"), but it doesn't seem like being a CS has to change your personality (Threnodite shades excepted). Brandon has said that's up to the reader--whether the CS is the actual person's mind, that has been strengthened enough to stick around, or just an imprint made of investiture. 1
RShara she/her Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) 23 hours ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said: EDITED: The original Venn diagram of the 3 realms was a fundamentally flawed attempt to explain how the 3 realms relate to one another that suffered from both a flawed understanding and from oversimplification, so essentially it's a worthless visualization that contains erroneous information. It's spoilered below with the original post, the responses later in this thread by @RShara and @Calderis are very clear, concise and accurate qualifications, read those instead. If you like venn diagrams, go ahead and look at it (it does look pretty nice) but take it for the bad information that it is. Reveal hidden contents Here's a Venn diagram that hopefully clarifies the relationship between the 3 Realms. If any of this is incorrect, let me know and I will edit it. I am pretty sure this accurate, but the overlap between the cognitive and physical realms without the spiritual realm seems like it might not actually exist (because all matter started out as spiritual energy and that implies a connection to the spiritual realm on a fundamental level, but the distinction between inanimate matter that has a soul of an idea that is devoid of the kinetic Investiture energy of life and sentience might be forced to fit in this spot). I normally hate Venn diagrams, but I think is actually a useful visualization. Here is a revised diagram, though technically more accurate it's still not a great visualization: It's better, but it really has to be a circle in a circle type thing. *Everything* has a Spiritweb. Almost everything has a cognitive presence, even if it's basically microscopic. Most things have a physical presence. The Physical is the only realm that isn't necessary to existence in the Cosmere. Even a planet or asteroid in space that no one knows about should have some sort of cognitive presence, even if it's just a tiny little patch that you can't see with the naked eye. At most, I would have the Physical that's apart from the Cognitive be just a little sliver. Edited January 15, 2018 by RShara 1
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