soyperson Posted December 6, 2017 Report Share Posted December 6, 2017 (edited) So, folks. In Oathbringer we learned a decent amount about the Oathpact. As a refresher: it was an agreement between Honor and ten people, who would become His Heralds (who originally volunteered to keep the evil at bay, something I didn't fully expect). Jezrien, Nale, Chanarach, Vedel, Pailiah, Shalash, Battar, Kalak, Talenel, and Ishar willingly subjected themselves to torture on Braize by voidspren for centuries at a time, until one of them "broke" and another Desolation began. After the Desolations, if a Herald died, they were sent back to Damnation, and even if they didn't they were expected to willingly go back, for the good of humanity. It was all good, and Honorable, until after Aharietiam, now known as the "Final Desolation" (which proved to be a misnomer), when the 9 surviving Heralds apparently all came to the unanimous decision that they just couldn't do it anymore. They left Taln to suffer for eternity, as he had never given in before, and parted ways. (It's always stricken me as odd that they all came to that same conclusion at the same time. Sure, they were all immortally exhausted, but it seems suspicious.) Now, that may strike many people as being particularly cold-hearted and Odious in origin, but I have another theory: After being broken so thoroughly for so long, the force or being that somehow got all the remaining Heralds to come to the same decision was not of Odium or of some other "evil" Shard or power. The reason the Oathpact was broken (or, more accurately, "bent") was because of Cultivation. In the final chapters of Oathbringer, when Ash and Taln are trying to get out of Thaylen City, Taln tells Ash that it was a good thing that they broke the Oathpact, as it's been 4,500 years since the previous Desolation and humanity has had time to prepare, and there might just be a chance of victory this time. This reminds me of Cultivation taking away Dalinar's memories of Evi, "pruning" him in order to promote growth. Perhaps Cultivation put an idea in the heads of the 9 Heralds that it was time to stop, so that humans could have a chance of finally winning. After all, she does have a particularly potent ability to see the future. Thoughts? Edited December 6, 2017 by Ookla the Melodious 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccstat he/him Posted December 6, 2017 Report Share Posted December 6, 2017 I like the idea, but I'm not quite convinced. If Cultivation had a hand in it her touch would need to have been very light. We know that there were eleven parties to the Oathpact: Honor plus ten Heralds. Honor directly powered the Heralds. We speculate that the KR orders are an uneven mix, some being more "of Honor" and others being more"of Cultivation." (We know that's true of their spren, but extending that to the orders themselves is what I consider "likely but not confirmed.") Assuming that's true, it would be a distinction between the KRs and their patron Heralds who were all firmly "of Honor." I have a hard time believing that Tanavast would permit another Shard, even a friend and ally, to interfere with his personal servants in a way that influenced them directly counter to his intent--in this case the breaking of oaths. I also want to point out that when the Heralds volunteered it was not to be tortured. Their plan was to stay in the Fused's prison and they were essentially volunteering for exile. According to the Stormfather, the torture came later when the Fused realized that humans could be coerced to break promises. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted December 6, 2017 Report Share Posted December 6, 2017 Actually the Oathpact was not so bad. Ten people offered themself to seal the Fused forever from returning. The Torture and breaking are not part of the Oathpact, they come to be only for an Honor's error. He didn't considerate that mortals could undo their oaths and therefore they could be bent to allow the Fused to return. When the Heralds got the job, their sacrifice will save Roshar forever by the Fused, the Desolations are simply a product of a faulty plan. About the Cultivation's interference is actually possible BUT unlikely to go unnoticed. Honor was alive back then and we know the Heralds' left was a tangential factor to his death but still a factor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyrann Posted December 6, 2017 Report Share Posted December 6, 2017 But would Honor not care about the letter of the oath? As the Stormfather (?) also explains at some point, the Oathpacts isn't actually broken, so I would assume that Honor would be okay with it - the Oathpact still stands. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soyperson Posted December 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2017 6 hours ago, Ookla the Leyspren said: But would Honor not care about the letter of the oath? As the Stormfather (?) also explains at some point, the Oathpacts isn't actually broken, so I would assume that Honor would be okay with it - the Oathpact still stands. Can you please rephrase this? I'm not totally clear on what you mean here, and how this applies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyrann Posted December 6, 2017 Report Share Posted December 6, 2017 Just now, Ookla the Melodious said: Can you please rephrase this? I'm not totally clear on what you mean here, and how this applies. We've seen somewhere (I believe something the Stormfather said, but it may be a WoB) that the Oathpact is not actually broken, despite what the Heralds said. Because it's not broken, I could see Honor being okay with it - after all, he cares about wheter or not an oath is broken, and apparently it wasn't quite broken. Thus, he might have agreed with Cultivation doing this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soyperson Posted December 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2017 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Ookla the Leyspren said: We've seen somewhere (I believe something the Stormfather said, but it may be a WoB) that the Oathpact is not actually broken, despite what the Heralds said. Because it's not broken, I could see Honor being okay with it - after all, he cares about wheter or not an oath is broken, and apparently it wasn't quite broken. Thus, he might have agreed with Cultivation doing this. Ah, I see what you mean. That could very well be it. The Oathpact, as per word of the Stormfather, is more "bent" than "broken", so as long as it still holds up, Honor could have supported that idea. That makes sense, that's a great observation! Edited December 6, 2017 by Ookla the Melodious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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