Malazan

[officiumdefunctorum she/her]

I get the feeling that Toll the Hounds is kind of the Winter's Heart of Malazan, what with the interesting but ultimately not very significant wanderings of the plot that would definitely be excluded from a film or television adaptation. I, too, was ultimately really surprised and disappointed with the conclusion of the Dying God's story. It really just seemed like a tool to develop Anomander's spawn, Kallor, and Spinok. The whole book is just remarkably depressing and dark. Murillio, Gruntle, Mappo, Travellor, Cutter... so much angst. BUT, armed with my new knowledge of all things Tiste, K'rul, and Kurald Galain, it's all much more interesting... and even sadder.

Spoiler

Honestly Erikson probably did the thing with Bellurdan on purpose just to mess with us, like, "you thought you knew what was going on but you were wrong! Haha!" 

 

[AngelEy3 he/him]

I really liked Toll the Hounds. It has a lot of the best (imo) philosophical stuff and memorable lines. 

Back in action with The Bonehunters tonight! I may... may end up mixing IcE in the order this time around, but I just read them before I started the main series back over again. 

Has anyone read any Bouchelain and Broach? 

"What if I told you I was pregnant?" 

"I'd kill the mule."

Today's fun fact:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisakedjak

Edited May 6, 2018 by AngelEy3

[AngelEy3 he/him]

On 4/24/2018 at 11:52 PM, AngelEy3 said:

 

Memories of Ice & Bonehunters spoilers :

  Hide contents

Kallor agrees to the position of King of Chains on the condition that CG give him an "opportunity" with a vulnerable Silverfox. 

When Whiskeyjack's bad leg went out, was that the CG acting through his injury? 

The thought just occurred to me with Gethol's appearance to Tene Baralta after he was burned at Y'Ghatan. 

 

Found the answer to my own question: 

Spoiler

From page 454, Bonehunters. 

 

[officiumdefunctorum she/her]

Toll the Hounds spoilers:

Spoiler

MURILLIO. WHY. IT'S EVEN WORSE THE SECOND TIME AROUND. D:

 

[AngelEy3 he/him]

Well that was a boon and a half for the good guys. Bonehunters Book 4 spoilers: 

Spoiler

I completely forgot about the Perish existing prior to Reaper's Gale. I also forgot about Mathok joining his desert warriors to Ganoes army. 

Getting really excited for Kalam's fight across Malaz City! 

 

[officiumdefunctorum she/her]

The number of things and people and events I've forgotten is ridiculous. And now that I've got Karkhanus and the ICE books rattling around in my head there are all these contradictions so I can't trust my own mind at all, really.

[AngelEy3 he/him]

I've got such a back log of books to read, but I just can't pry myself away from Malazan for more than a single book at a time. I still have so much more to discover. Not to mention I've been saving Kharkanas for after this re-read. I decided to skip IcE this time around as I've read them more recently than the main series. Witness. 

[Ammanas]

 

4 hours ago, AngelEy3 said:

I still have so much more to discover.

I read in a interview where Erikson said that he was never trained to write long novels, but instead only knows how to write short stories and in a sense each malazan book is a gigantic short story. In my opinion it is a bit of a hyberbole (there is still plenty he could trim) but there is something to what he is saying with the amount of information, foreshadowing, and hidden nuggets that he has throughout each novel.

[AngelEy3 he/him]

All done with Bonehunters! Moving on to Reaper's Gale. I really liked this one. "We're conquering Lether one tavern at a time?"

[AngelEy3 he/him]

Theory and potential spoiler for the Shake. 

Spoiler

Are the Shake part K'Chaine Che'Malle? I think I have evidence that they may be. 

From page 405 HC Reaper's Gale:

Combine that with this memory of Gunth Mach's from Dust of Dreams:

"She recalled the birth pains of the Nah’ruk, and then the searing agony of their betrayal. Burning cities and corpses three-deep on vast fields of battle. Chaos and terror within the nests, the shriek of desperate births. And the sly mockery of the waves on the shores as a dying Matron loosed her eggs into the surf in the mad hope that something new would be made—a hybrid of virtues with all the flaws discarded."

So... Are the Shake part K'Chain Che'Malle? I believe so. 

 

[officiumdefunctorum she/her]

16 minutes ago, AngelEy3 said:

Theory and potential spoiler for the Shake. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Are the Shake part K'Chaine Che'Malle? I think I have evidence that they may be. 

From page 405 HC Reaper's Gale:

Combine that with this memory of Gunth Mach's from Dust of Dreams:

"She recalled the birth pains of the Nah’ruk, and then the searing agony of their betrayal. Burning cities and corpses three-deep on vast fields of battle. Chaos and terror within the nests, the shriek of desperate births. And the sly mockery of the waves on the shores as a dying Matron loosed her eggs into the surf in the mad hope that something new would be made—a hybrid of virtues with all the flaws discarded."

So... Are the Shake part K'Chain Che'Malle? I believe so. 

 

I think you're correct, but also that that is only the current state of the Shake.

Spoiler

I believe it's mentioned at some point that the mutations came from the contaminated water, that the whole thing was essentially something that happened by accident. Given the disposition and general weirdness surrounding the Shake in the Kharkanus books, I'd bet that, in spite of Erikson's sacrifice of continuity and consistency for a good story, the k'chain che'malle aspects emerged generations after the Tiste (Ruin and Bloodeye), for lack of a better word, invaded the realm of the KC. Not sure how the Shake fit into all that, gotta wait for Walk in Shadow.

 

[AngelEy3 he/him]

18 minutes ago, officiumdefunctorum said:

I think you're correct, but also that that is only the current state of the Shake.

  Reveal hidden contents

I believe it's mentioned at some point that the mutations came from the contaminated water, that the whole thing was essentially something that happened by accident. Given the disposition and general weirdness surrounding the Shake in the Kharkanus books, I'd bet that, in spite of Erikson's sacrifice of continuity and consistency for a good story, the k'chain che'malle aspects emerged generations after the Tiste (Ruin and Bloodeye), for lack of a better word, invaded the realm of the KC. Not sure how the Shake fit into all that, gotta wait for Walk in Shadow.

 

Spoiler

I should have added current state of the Shake, for sure. I haven't read Kharkanas yet, but it's also eluded to by Yedyn Derrig (at Kharkanas, in I think either DoD or CG) that the Edur were the bastard get of the Shake. 

Kharkanas will be coming up after this re-read. There's so much to discover that I feel like I could just keep reading any Malazan related material forever. 

 

Edited May 20, 2018 by AngelEy3

[Briar King]

The witches in RG had

taloned feet. I think they’re human/Andii/K’Chain mixed bloods

[officiumdefunctorum she/her]

Man, I love these books way too much. In the middle of the Night Angel trilogy and all I can think is "ugh Malazan is so much better than this". Definitely postponing finishing it until after Dust of Dreams.

[Ammanas]

@officiumdefunctorum Have you read the Lightbringer series by the same author? It is much better in my opinion and it is narrated by the great Simon Vance. 

[officiumdefunctorum she/her]

@Ammanas Lightbringer is the reason I picked up Night Angel! I LOVED Lightbringer, which has made the mediocrity of this series all the more disappointing. Paul Boehmer is an awful narrator whose voice reminds me of the true facts guy.

[Briar King]

19 hours ago, officiumdefunctorum said:

Man, I love these books way too much. In the middle of the Night Angel trilogy and all I can think is "ugh Malazan is so much better than this". Definitely postponing finishing it until after Dust of Dreams.

I’ve said this a few times but I really want LB to end so we can get the next NA book as he is going back to that world after. Can’t wait to see his experience he has gained. I really liked NA though it’s easy to see that it was his 1st work.

[AngelEy3 he/him]

"Welcome, my dear companions, to Starvald Demelain." 

[AngelEy3 he/him]

Spoiler

Toll the Hounds! 

[officiumdefunctorum she/her]

Tar tweaking out and giving Pores lip while they're on the barges might be the best part of Dust of Dreams.

[AngelEy3 he/him]

@officiumdefunctorumAlways a step ahead! I just can't quite seem to catch up. I've had 15 min checks at work all this week and possibly into the future, so my speed has dropped off the deep end.  If I hadn't already read Malazan there's no way I could keep going under those conditions, lol. Supposed to be reading Conan too, but it's too hard to get into with all the little breaks. 

[officiumdefunctorum she/her]

@AngelEy3 I'm trying to finish my re-read so I can get in on the Wheel of Time. My sister has been rereading it and I've got the urge, and DoD is reading a bit more quickly than TtH did.

[Ammanas]

After reading @officiumdefunctorum comments on Night Angel trilogy I got to thinking it been so many years since I have read the trilogy that I really couldn't remember any of them. My library has the audiobooks and I am over halfway through the first one. I have a kinder reaction than him about them. Yes, malazan, Lightbringer, and Simon Vance (narrator) are all better, but I am still finding them enjoyable!

There are many elements in Weeks writing and style that he will later hone and improve with in his Lighbringer series...it is a little raw. I also feel that although terrible things happen in Lighbringer there is a sense of hope, wonder and exhuberance that is undeniably there. Night Angel has some brutal scenes that involve male on male rape and mutilations and can be dark at times (although to be fair none of them are described in graphic detail). The narrator is o.k. he at least is somewhat engaging, has voice inflictions and various voices even if his skill doesn't match the giants of the medium like Krammer and Vance etc.

I agree with @Briar King. I would love to see what a more confident and skilled Weeks could do in this world!

[Briar King]

Indeed. You can really tell the difference in experience if you read them next to each other. When he goes back I have a great feeling it’s gonna be even better and I just can’t wait. As fun as LB is I just want it to end so we can get back to NA2 asap

[officiumdefunctorum she/her]

I only just got NA book three from the library, so you should have my thoughts about the whole thing once I get there, lol. Lightbringer is just, I don't know, more engaging, for me? I don't mind brutality when it's used effectively, and really I just don't like the narrator for the books. I often find small things that irritate me and cast a pall over the whole experience, like how the author of Lycanius would always say someone "inclined their head". I honestly was going to start a tally. BUT, that said, I thoroughly enjoyed them. Just not as much as LB.

I'm with @Briar King and looking forward to Night Angel Mark II. I think it's gonna be awesome.

And @Ammanas, I'm a her. I suppose there is nothing that indicates that so just wanted to clarify. Carry on!