Cousin Spren

[Droughtbringer]

What makes a Honor Spren, and a Wind Spren cousins? The intent of the wind, and the intent of honor seem to be quite different. Wind wants to blow, and honor wants to stay steadfast to beliefs, and what is alright. So what would allow these spren to be considered cousins? 

What we know: 
Wind Spren and Honor Spren = Cousins
Spren are splinters of Shards.
Spren are given existence by human thought.

Theory:
The only thing that I can think of that would allow Wind and Honor spren to be cousins, is if they both are wind spren, only with different amounts in investiture, or different sizes of splinters inside of them. This would mean that Honor Spren are just Wind Spren that have changed by a splinter of Honor, this larger splinter allows them to first: Have sentience, and Second: Bond with humans.
If this first theory is true, then what would happen if a normal spren got a large sprinter of Odium? This would create another type of spren, one that, instead of surge binding, would allow voidbinding to happen. So, what if Storm Spren are just Wind Spren with Odium Splinters? 

[Krandacth]

6 hours ago, Sasooner said:

If this first theory is true, then what would happen if a normal spren got a large sprinter of Odium? This would create another type of spren, one that, instead of surge binding, would allow voidbinding to happen. So, what if Storm Spren are just Wind Spren with Odium Splinters? 

IIRC This is possibly backed up by Dalinar's Purelake vision, in which they are hunting a spren that has been "corrupted by Sja-anat", which is an Unmade, and therefore a large splinter of Odium. I can definitely support "voidspren" being native spren thus corrupted, for now.

However, there is Voidbinding to consider. According to a WoB that I cant find right now (on my phone), we haven't seen voidinding as of the end of WoR, so that isn't what the Listeners do to achieve, or once in, Stormform. As such, Voidinding is likely a counterpart to Surgebinding that results from humans bonding a different kind of Spren that also embodies a more abstract concept than the native spren (like honor, but derived from Odium, e.g. Vengencespren). In which case, these Spren would be Voidspren, and Stormspren would not be voidspren at all but corrupted windspren.

This ties into my final point, and one that you pointed out yourself: Wind and Honour (or Protection, as I believe Syl more accurately represents, though she could also be Dutyspren?) aren't related notionally. However, [whatever Syl is] are functionally/metaphorically related to Windspren, as they grant the ability to essentially fly, and encourage their Bondmates to fight, and metaphors for skilled fighters are often wind-related, e.g. "he was a whirlwind of steel", or the numerous examples describing Kaladin.

Whilst this is a fairly fluffy definition, the upshot is that people who attract [whatever Syl is] are also very likely to attract windspren, and this is what seems to be the understanding of "cousin spren" in the 17th Shard. In a similar way, Cryptics aren't conceptually similar to creationspren, but there has been some concensus here that they are cousin spren because people bonded to the former (Lightweavers) are prone to attract the latter (through their art).

All that is just the prevailing theory, however. I don't believe anything out there contradicts your theory. I would be interested in knowing what you think would be cousin spren to Cryptics, according to your theory: I personally can't see any similarities between them and Creationspren, not like between [whatever Syl is] and Windspren...

Edited November 26, 2016 by Krandacth
conclusion

[Yata he/him]

I think that about this topic there was an huge codipendence in Roshar's History:

- The Surgebinding's Surges come to pair that are natural to Roshar

- The first user of Surgebinder were the Heralds with Honor's gift

- The Spren understand how to replicate those powers

Now the Spren are a materialization of the Surges that people think as living thing (they are actually "living surges"). Therefore it's possible that people inspired by Jezrien's story/feats/legends began to associate it to the wind (because he has the right surges) and this forges the Honorspren like syl to be wind based

PS: Notice also that the other surge of a Windrunner, the Adesion's Surge works with a manipulation of the atmospheric pressure....a concept with a strong relationship with the air and wind.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Yata

[The Ninja Yodeler he/him]

On 11/26/2016 at 3:13 AM, Krandacth said:

IIRC This is possibly backed up by Dalinar's Purelake vision, in which they are hunting a spren that has been "corrupted by Sja-anat", which is an Unmade, and therefore a large splinter of Odium. I can definitely support "voidspren" being native spren thus corrupted, for now.

However, there is Voidbinding to consider. According to a WoB that I cant find right now (on my phone), we haven't seen voidinding as of the end of WoR, so that isn't what the Listeners do to achieve, or once in, Stormform. As such, Voidinding is likely a counterpart to Surgebinding that results from humans bonding a different kind of Spren that also embodies a more abstract concept than the native spren (like honor, but derived from Odium, e.g. Vengencespren). In which case, these Spren would be Voidspren, and Stormspren would not be voidspren at all but corrupted windspren.

This ties into my final point, and one that you pointed out yourself: Wind and Honour (or Protection, as I believe Syl more accurately represents, though she could also be Dutyspren?) aren't related notionally. However, [whatever Syl is] are functionally/metaphorically related to Windspren, as they grant the ability to essentially fly, and encourage their Bondmates to fight, and metaphors for skilled fighters are often wind-related, e.g. "he was a whirlwind of steel", or the numerous examples describing Kaladin.

Whilst this is a fairly fluffy definition, the upshot is that people who attract [whatever Syl is] are also very likely to attract windspren, and this is what seems to be the understanding of "cousin spren" in the 17th Shard. In a similar way, Cryptics aren't conceptually similar to creationspren, but there has been some concensus here that they are cousin spren because people bonded to the former (Lightweavers) are prone to attract the latter (through their art).

All that is just the prevailing theory, however. I don't believe anything out there contradicts your theory. I would be interested in knowing what you think would be cousin spren to Cryptics, according to your theory: I personally can't see any similarities between them and Creationspren, not like between [whatever Syl is] and Windspren...

I thought

it was confirmed that the Stormform Parshendi were voidbringers? Which I extrapolated to mean they did use voidspren, and were voidbinding. Hmmm. Guess not.

Edited November 27, 2016 by The Ninja Yodeler
Spoiler tags

[Krandacth]

This is the WoB I was thinking of:

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1152#71

Edited November 27, 2016 by Krandacth
missed question number