Looking for Peer Review and Revisal of Several Magic Systems of my Creation.

[Chandrian]

I've been working on worldbuilding for the last few months to stave off boredom in numerous situations. What I'll use said world for is still a matter of debate, but it may be a Roleplay. I've come up with two systems of magic which I plan to implement, and am greatly in need of others insight upon the matter. As they haven't been named, I'll merely refer to them as my current terminology: Proficiency and Soulbearing.

 

Proficiency: This is my version of the older-than-dirt elemental magic cliché. Magic will be divided into 5 primary aspects, and each one is attributed to a certain proficiency and requires a certain input. Along with this, there are fifteen secondary aspects. The base elements are air, water, earth, fire, and life. Every person is born with affinity to one of the five based randomly upon whatever their parents have. It is expressed through markings upon the lower dominant arm. Ambidexterous people have markings on both arms. If your arm is severed within 5 inches of the elbow, you lose your powers.

Growing stronger: Every 5 years, a person gains one "tier" of proficiency. Directly killing another (i.e. stabbing, strangulation, pushing down stairs) even accidentally grants you another tier of proficiency for every multitude greater than you they were, rounded down but excluding one. For example, killing someone of ToP 32 at ToP 5 will grant you 6 ToP's, more than doubling your strength. However, killing someone with ToP 6 at ToP 7 will only grant you ToP 8. Tiers are recognizable via markings on the arm, as are elements. There are no indicative symbols other than increasing complexity, but one simply knows by looking. This has leaf yo the social preference of longer sleeves and wrist wrappings.

Requirements and boosts given by elements:

Water manipulation uses body heat and can be used with more precision the stronger one grows, allowing for nearly artistic precision at high Proficiency.

Fire manipulation uses hydration and can be used with greater power the stronger one grows, allowing for one to achieve unbelievable heat and speed of use at high Proficiency.

Air manipulation uses wakefulness and  can be used with greater ease the stronger one grows, allowing for practically subconscious use at high Proficiency.

Earth Manipulation uses stamina and can be used to greater scale the stronger one grows, allowing for the movement of multi-tonne objects at high Proficiency.

Life magic has the temporary drawback of poisoning onself, leading to a state similar to drunkeness after extended use. Doing so for long enough causes a number of permenant effects upon health and gradual withering of stature. Those with life magic grow more in tune with other things the higher their Proficiency, allowing for stronger use of their magic.

Secondary Elements: One chooses their secondary element at 15 years, and it can be one which their parents had. If only one parent was metal and another vapor, they couldn't be dual water, as only one had a water-based power. If someone kills another before their 15th, the dead person's power will latch onto theirs, assigning them an element without them choosing.

Ice (water and air): Can control and freeze water and other fluids at a moderate temperature range and below. The heat removed must be redirected somewhere else, and there must be a significantly colder object to start. This power emphasizes working easily in a detailed manner. 

Steam (water and fire): Can control vapor (including smoke) and fluids of a moderate temperature range and below, along with heating said substances. The heat added must be pulled from surroundings. This power emphasizes working with powerful, fast, and dramatic percision.

Clay (water and earth): Can control stone, water, and most forms of damp earth. Given enough time, they can meld water with stone into clay, often on a massive scale in an elaborate manner. This power emphasizes intricate work on a large scale.

Plants (water and life): Can control plant life and how it grows and interacts, along with modifying oneself to a minor degree with features like poisonous blood or the ability to photosynthesize. This power emphasizes complex, but often subtle changes to oneself and their surroundings.

Metal (fire and earth) Can control most concentrated metals in a solid or liquid state, but can only melt them given a catalyst of intense heat (difficult for anyone without very high Proficiency). The only advantage to melting them is their heat and fluid nature even when not being controlled. This power emphasizes fast control over large quantities of materials.

Lightning (fire and air): Can control and generate lightning. This can be within a wide range of strengths from the power to stun people (low Proficiency) to cooking someone on contact (high Proficiency). This power is hard to work with in a cold environment with minimal movement of energy i.e. lack of friction, wind, or burning. This power emphasizes powerful, instinctive manipulation, using lightning reflexively if needed.

Flesh (fire and life): Can control and alter one's own body temporarily and permenantly. Temporary changes operate in a way similar to physical metalminds, and permenant ones can change anything from hair color to organ placement and bone density the stronger one is. This power emphasizes drastic changes to ones own physique.

Dust (air and earth): Can control dust, dirt and sand, creating a temporarily solid substance in enough density. Using this, one can create bludgeons and barriers from mundane materials. This power emphasizes being able to do things of large scale with little effort.

Beasts (spirit and earth): Can control animals of the surface and mimic animal traits, such as claws, teeth, and night vision. This power emphasizes large scale control with connectivity to what one does.

Avians (spirit and air): Can control animals of the sky and mimic avian traits, such as feathers, talons, secondary sets of lungs, and wings. This power emphasizes forming close bonds, allowing easy control.

The other five powers are the base 5, coupled the same power a second time: double air/fire/earth/water/life. Life allows for mental persuasion, great understanding of the actions of others, and heightened senses.

 

In Summary: Every person is born with Proficiency in one of the five elements. This is represented by a marking on the dominant arm. If the dominant arm is removed, they lose their powers. One becomes gradually more powerful every 5th year, or by killing another. At 15, every person picks their second Proficiency, which combine into an alternate one (vapor, lightning, metal, flesh, avians, beasts, plants, ice, clay, dust, and each of the initial 5 at a greater strength). An ambidexterous person has two secondary Proficiencies.

I'm considering adding the sixth element, which I'll refer to as "force". The abilities of force would be friction, tension, sound, light, and bacteria.

 

Soulbearing: This is a far more simple power which is much less common. In my world, when anyone dies, a "shadow" of their existence forms 12 hours later. This shadow generally resembles the person the moment before death, only an opaque greyish color. Those with greater proficiency will often have unnatural shadows, with unnaturally long and angled appendages and great physical skills. They're violently inclined to kill humans who intrude upon their territory, but work in packs with other shadows. They immediately recover from all wounds inflicted, except those inflicted with an item made of or plated in gold. Killing a shadow infuses one's body with a portion of its energy. Doing so about 15 times results in a complete loss of Proficiency. This has caused killing shadows to be viewed as a great sin by some religions. 

By absorbing souls, one gains the ability to perform incredible feats at the expense of one soul each. These include becoming temporarily incorporeal, moving with incredible speed, amplifying healing, teleporting short distances, and a handful of other things. Gaining hundreds of souls gives one the ability to kill shadows with anything, and to regrow lost limbs with an inky blackish substance. Enough souls manifests in black eyes and veins.

 

So that's all for my systems, pending revision, quantification, and fine-tuning. Give me any advice or thoughts you have upon the systems, and thanks for reading!

Edited October 16, 2016 by Chandrian

[StormyQueen she/her]

Nice system! I really liked how it took a much loved cliche, and made it different. I added some questions you might want to ask yourself, surronding the magic system itself, and its interactions with culture (I find this to be an integral and interesting part of magic, but if you just want to create the magic, that's fine), as I find that questions are often good ways to deepen and improve a system. You don't have to answer me on these, but they might be handy to think about (hopefully)

Magic

Is everybody born with magic, or is it just a select few? If so, is there any way for non-magic users to get the magic (e.g. By killing somebody)? 

What are the marks made of? Is any science trying to replicate them, and can they be replicated by humans at all? 

Do you have to make the secondary choice at 15? Can you delay the choice? What happens if somebody is unconscious/acomatosed during this period? Is it simply a level that you need to reach, and can choose any time later?

What happens if somebody is born with a disability that causes them not to have arms? Do they still get the powers?

Are the powers genetic, or based only off parents powers? E.g. If a grandparent had earth, but your parents had fire and water, could you still get earth?

Are the powers given through your genes, and if so, are there mutations in genes?

Cultural inetractions

Are any certain types favoured for different jobs? You mentioned that water reaches and artistic level, so do they tend to be artists? 

What happens if somebody randomly gets another tier (ie, they've killed somebody)? Does this make catching killers easier? 

Is any elements discriminated against or thought as useless by different cultures?

Is there discrimination against people who have lost their arms? 

Is science/equivalent study trying to replicate the marks?

Do people kill others to gain their secondary powers, as the powers that they could get, they couldn't recieve because of their heritage? 

General Notes

I found it a bit odd that your power is only improved by getting older, as I feel from a storytelling perspective, it feels like we're being cheated, as characters don't really have to work hard to get more power. I think also felt unclear as to if they get more skilful as they get older, automatically, as you said that with more power, water gets more precision. This was the main thing that made me tick about the system, but the rest was really good.

[Chandrian]

1 hour ago, CalypsoDreaming said:

Nice system! I really liked how it took a much loved cliche, and made it different. I added some questions you might want to ask yourself, surronding the magic system itself, and its interactions with culture (I find this to be an integral and interesting part of magic, but if you just want to create the magic, that's fine), as I find that questions are often good ways to deepen and improve a system. You don't have to answer me on these, but they might be handy to think about (hopefully)

Magic

Is everybody born with magic, or is it just a select few? If so, is there any way for non-magic users to get the magic (e.g. By killing somebody)? 

What are the marks made of? Is any science trying to replicate them, and can they be replicated by humans at all? 

Do you have to make the secondary choice at 15? Can you delay the choice? What happens if somebody is unconscious/acomatosed during this period? Is it simply a level that you need to reach, and can choose any time later?

What happens if somebody is born with a disability that causes them not to have arms? Do they still get the powers?

Are the powers genetic, or based only off parents powers? E.g. If a grandparent had earth, but your parents had fire and water, could you still get earth?

Are the powers given through your genes, and if so, are there mutations in genes?

Cultural inetractions

Are any certain types favoured for different jobs? You mentioned that water reaches and artistic level, so do they tend to be artists? 

What happens if somebody randomly gets another tier (ie, they've killed somebody)? Does this make catching killers easier? 

Is any elements discriminated against or thought as useless by different cultures?

Is there discrimination against people who have lost their arms? 

Is science/equivalent study trying to replicate the marks?

Do people kill others to gain their secondary powers, as the powers that they could get, they couldn't recieve because of their heritage? 

General Notes

I found it a bit odd that your power is only improved by getting older, as I feel from a storytelling perspective, it feels like we're being cheated, as characters don't really have to work hard to get more power. I think also felt unclear as to if they get more skilful as they get older, automatically, as you said that with more power, water gets more precision. This was the main thing that made me tick about the system, but the rest was really good.

I've thought through a handful of these, but they're all very helpful questions. I'll tell you what I've thought and thoughts based around your questions.

 

Everyone is born with magic, and it can only be lost via decapitation. Proficiency can't be regained after losing a limb, but Soulbearing is still possible. I planned on having the leader of a smaller faction being an exile of the Holy Empire of Kev'Malot Hrej who was decapitated for his crimes. He would use Soulbearing to be as dangerous as any master of Proficiency, and have an artificial limb constructed from said magic.

Marks can't he replicated by any means, not by lack of effort from Vekhian Observers (think holy scientists). TheY are made of a substance similar to that of Shadows: physical, but at the same time, not really. They appear differently for a person's elemental affiliations (navy blue water, burgrundy fire, black earth, white air, grey life), and intertwine when a second element is introduced. They shift in shade to remain visible despite tanning, scarring, or marking over, and will appear until cut to the bone. Think of their nature almost like that of Nightblood draining the color from limbs.

The element is chosen at 15 via subconscious choice, or at least whatever said preference was when your brain last thought about such. This leads to the occasional disownment for getting "improper" abilities, and some people getting what they didn't think they would.

One born without arms would not have powers, so I guess not everyone does get abilities. Fortunately, they're rather rare, and killed in some regions for being "unholy abominations".

Only direct descent. Your grandparents have no effect on your abilities.

I'm honestly not sure about the genes part. I'm not sure what else I was thinking, as I don't plan on divine forces appearing. So, I guess so. You could get a mutation causing a power your parents didn't have, but it would be exceedingly rare. Come to think of it, I could have a more inbred race where said mutations were far more common, causing less lineal potential.

Not necessarily. The element effects the nature of the power, not the person. However, certain elements are favored by guilds and more relevant in different jobs. The average civilian will never have powers of a strength for combat, but often for more mundane and daily tasks. Metal Proficients are valued as smithies, Clay Proficients are valued as potters and masons, Avian Proficents are good couriers, Vapor and Lightning Proficients are valued for inventing (assuming I go through with a Renaissance type world) and so on.

This does, in fact. It's a cultural norm to cover one or both wrists in some way, but assuming you had a pool of suspects, it would be far easier to pick one out. Soliders often get tattoos or have papers indicating Tiers gained through killing to disprove suspicion.  

Viewed as useless, generally not. However, many not in Shrevem Hrass (The Sand Barrens) tend to view Dust as an inferior power, having little use in mpst careers. Dual Life Proficients are also viewed with a degree of fear, as they can toy with ones emotions and trust. On the opposite side, though, the ambidexterous are envied by most, and worshipped in some cultures. Their nature makes them twice as potent in their original element, and able to have two secondaries. They usually end up as nobles, generals, or powerful merchants regardless of how low their birth is. Keep in mind this is only for those ambidexterous by birth, not training.

Yes, there often is, as they're either viewed as inferior or suspected as criminal. Some societies, such as the Holy Empire of Kev'Malot Hrej will chop off the arm of a killer or dangerous criminal, often during capture (they view killing, regardless of situation, as the worst sin possible). Some, such as the Holy Empire,  also mark the other arm, and sometimes the back, neck, and chest, with a combonation of scars, brands, and tattoos detailing what they did to earn the loss of a limb.

It's rare, but not unheard of. As one must be younger than 15 to do so, it rarely happens. Nomad leaders and the occasional feudal royal may have their child do this to gain a power they couldn't normally obtain.

 

The only gaining by age is very half-baked in my opinion too. It's only like that because I wished to avoid pulling the stereotypical "go to a holy place and get stronger" or "level up by applying it to your life" fantasy tropes. Regarding strength with age, it's moreso what improves about it as you grow in tier. Water is more precise the higher your tier, but only through training can you apply large-scale percision, or in the case for Fire, powerful effects with little effort.

 If you have any good ideas for what to do for this, I'd really love to hear them!

 

[StormyQueen she/her]

42 minutes ago, Chandrian said:

 

  Hide contents

The only gaining by age is very half-baked in my opinion too. It's only like that because I wished to avoid pulling the stereotypical "go to a holy place and get stronger" or "level up by applying it to your life" fantasy tropes. Regarding strength with age, it's moreso what improves about it as you grow in tier. Water is more precise the higher your tier, but only through training can you apply large-scale percision, or in the case for Fire, powerful effects with little effort.

 If you have any good ideas for what to do for this, I'd really love to hear them!

 

 

Could you have it grow stronger/better until a certain age (like 18 or whatever the coming of age ag is), and after that, you grow more powerful, but it isn't noticeable as it grows in such small amounts, so the rest you improve through hard work and determination? Just an idea, but it could work...

[Spoolofwhool]

Interesting idea. Couple questions about it initially.

If I understand right, a soul is power you gain from killing a shadow. While absorbing souls does result in a weakening of magic proficiency, it grants other abilities which are empowered by the consumption of soul. Is this correct? If so, can someone without magic use soulbearing anyways? Are there any deficits if you gain souls after you have lost your magic? Is it possible to give your souls to someone else and does your magic proficiency return after you lower your amount of souls to below 15? What happens if you kill someone bearing souls?

4 hours ago, Chandrian said:

Directly killing another (i.e. stabbing, strangulation, pushing down stairs) even accidentally grants you another tier of proficiency for every multitude greater than you they were, rounded down but excluding one. For example, killing someone of ToP 32 at ToP 5 will grant you seven ToP's, more than doubling your strength.

Could you explain the math a bit better on killing someone? So if you kill someone of a higher tier, you gain tiers equal to the number of multiples your tier is of theirs, rounded down, with at least 1 tier gained? Your example doesn't make sense here since 5 is 6.4 multiples of 32, so rounding down should give 6 tiers, not 7.

I agree with Calypso that the continuous linear increase in strength feels slightly boring. Forcing people to murder others to get stronger is fun and really Highlander-esque, but at the same time I feel it would make for a slightly stagnant society if everyone could do this.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Spoolofwhool

[Darkness Ascendant he/him]

Oh god...the world which has the first magic system would be a horrible place....

I imagine "farms" of people bred to be a certain affinity, then sold to someone who wants more power so they can be killed.

[Chandrian]

On 10/11/2016 at 11:13 PM, CalypsoDreaming said:

Could you have it grow stronger/better until a certain age (like 18 or whatever the coming of age ag is), and after that, you grow more powerful, but it isn't noticeable as it grows in such small amounts, so the rest you improve through hard work and determination? Just an idea, but it could work...

That could potentially work. I was planning upon comprehension being an important aspect in the system as well, Tiers merely increasing what has the potential to be achieved, not what will be. I may heighten the importance of using it, though. I was also toying with near death and physical pain inflicted upon oneself having the potential to boost one's Tier. That would lead to some dark initiation rituals to cetrain groups.

On 10/11/2016 at 11:17 PM, Spoolofwhool said:

Interesting idea. Couple questions about it initially.

If I understand right, a soul is power you gain from killing a shadow. While absorbing souls does result in a weakening of magic proficiency, it grants other abilities which are empowered by the consumption of soul. Is this correct? If so, can someone without magic use soulbearing anyways? Are there any deficits if you gain souls after you have lost your magic? Is it possible to give your souls to someone else and does your magic proficiency return after you lower your amount of souls to below 15? What happens if you kill someone bearing souls?

Could you explain the math a bit better on killing someone? So if you kill someone of a higher tier, you gain tiers equal to the number of multiples your tier is of theirs, rounded down, with at least 1 tier gained? Your example doesn't make sense here since 5 is 6.4 multiples of 32, so rounding down should give 6 tiers, not 7.

I agree with Calypso that the continuous linear increase in strength feels slightly boring. Forcing people to murder others to get stronger is fun and really Highlander-esque, but at the same time I feel it would make for a slightly stagnant society if everyone could do this.

It doesn't result in weakened Proficiency, persay, but a sudden, total loss around 15. This makes killing Shadows if you have powers something you do only if absolutely necessary. Plenty of societies have burial pits to contain Shadows, and most do anything they can to avoid them. 

Someone without Proficiency can use Soulbearing. Some do. There is the added side effect of a gradual loss of sanity and disfigurement. A bearer of enough souls will regress to an almost bestial state of mind, and sport mottled skin, having traits bordering upon that of a Shadow.

You can't regain Proficency after losing said souls. You hit the removal limit, and it's gone. Period. This makes Shadows far more threatening as no one with Proficiency wants to kill them.

If you kill someone bearing a significant amount of souls, their Shadow will be incredibly dangerous. Fast, strong, flexible, massive and ridiculously hard to kill.

The math on the tier thing was me making a silly math error. I'll change that.

And yes, I need revisions to gaining Tiers. That's a fair portion of the reason I put up this thread.

On 10/12/2016 at 5:05 AM, Dankness Ascendant said:

Oh god...the world which has the first magic system would be a horrible place....

I imagine "farms" of people bred to be a certain affinity, then sold to someone who wants more power so they can be killed.

I was thinking of that being a practice performed by more primitive or militant societies i.e. The Spartans. It would also probably be a major aspect of the criminal underworld. You could understand the appeal of Flesh Proficients as slaves for a multitude of reasons, if you see what I'm getting at...

 

Sorry, all for my lack of promptness in responding. It's been altogether a busy week. Give me any more commentary or questions you have, and if anyone has proposals for how to gain Tiers, I'd love to know them!