Making sense of spren types

[Bloodfalcon he/him]

I was doing some thinking today in the car during my re[listen] and decided something about Puppy. For those who don't follow, Puppy is the tentative name for Shallan's spren, as he acts just like a puppy and no other animal. In the new chapters, Jasnah names him a liespren. We also have a WoB that Puppy is a truthspren (though it sounds as though Brandon was making a joke). Moreover, we believe it is pre-puppiness Puppy who asks Shallan to reveal a truth and tells her that it has been a long time, but he is ready to "change" when she is in Shadesmar. This obviously means Soulcast, so I assume it's Puppy. 

We believe that these bondable spren are attracted to the very attributes they are named after, as well as those listed on the Ars Arcanum. Shallan is not very truthful though. So I think "truthspren" is out. She is a bit of a liar- hell she has some huge lies ready to be revealed - but I find it hard to believe that one KR Order is going to be based on everyone hiding murders and that sort of thing. 

So here is what I decided on, and personally I like it a lot:

The term "liar" is being used in an alternative way to the definition we give it normally. You could throw the liar title onto a magician or a fiction author with the right definition. I think Puppy was goading her into using it to come to terms with what she will do. She is going to be an Illusionist by everyone's best guess. It is going to be a fundamental component of her abilities to create lies and create them well. (As far as her secondary attribute goes, Honesty, I think her ability to lie so convincingly will cause her problems unless she can prove to others that she will be honest enough to trust. I think it will come in time.)

In the same way I can see honor being a critical component of Protecting, while Leading is a result of honor. There are many leaders who don't have honor in this series, but because of their nobility. Kaladin will gain Leadership and has gained leadership because of his honor and protection of others. 

 

I would be extremely pleased if there ended up being a system to this where the Surgebinder started with their primary attribute, that attracted their spren, and as a result they grew into their secondary attribute. 

I'm less sure about Lift and Wyndle, but I think the same can be said. She starts out with a natural ability to be Loving which draws in Wyndle, and now that they are together, she appears to be developing a passion for healing. 

If this is all already known or assumed, the purpose of this post was almost more to say that this is the reason I love Brandon Sanderson books. Systems!

[The Count he/him]

Interesting theory, I like it but think it may not be the whole story.

One thing though:

Moreover, we believe it is pre-puppiness Puppy who asks Shallan to reveal a truth and tells her that it has been a long time, but he is ready to "change" when she is in Shadesmar. This obviously means Soulcast, so I assume it's Puppy.

I am not sure about this at all!

I always though it was the spirit of the goblet that Shallan spoke to while in Shadesmar and it agreed to 'chnage' took the stormlight and became blood.

I can believe that the symbol is the same spren who asked 'What are you?' in the same scene (and who asked Shallan for a truth later on) though.

As for the rest, I think striving towards either one of the ideals would be a pre-requisite for bonding, but I think the actual decision (by the spren) is far more complex than this and different for each type of bond spren.

We see that Lift didn't really draw Wyndle directly, he was directed to her by 'The Ring' so while Lift maybe had the pre-requisites in place for bonding somehow (maybe linked to the divine attributes) this was clearly not enough on its own to forge a bond.

Edited January 21, 2014 by The Count

[Bloodfalcon he/him]

Interesting theory, I like it but think it may not be the whole story.

One thing though:

I am not sure about this at all!

I always though it was the spirit of the goblet that Shallan spoke to while in Shadesmar and it agreed to 'chnage' took the stormlight and became blood.

I can believe that the symbol is the same spren who asked 'What are you?' in the same scene (and who asked Shallan for a truth later on) though.

As for the rest, I think striving towards either one of the ideals would be a pre-requisite for bonding, but I think the actual decision (by the spren) is far more complex than this and different for each type of bond spren.

We see that Lift didn't really draw Wyndle directly, he was directed to her by 'The Ring' so while Lift maybe had the pre-requisites in place for bonding somehow (maybe linked to the divine attributes) this was clearly not enough on its own to forge a bond.

Yeah I don't think it is the entirety of the relationship by any means, but I like the pattern shaping up.

As far as the voice w/ Shallan goes, I initially thought it was the cup too, and it is still very VERY possible obviously, but after listening to the scene again, I think it would be more significant for Shallan to be interacting with Puppy for the first time than with the spirit of a random cup, and Puppy does talk to her like that. The context is appropriate too. I just don't expect Shallan to have a conversation with every inanimate object she decides to transform. I think she'll be developing her relationship with Puppy. 

[Awesomeness Summoned he/him]

In the newly released chapter, though, she thinks the voice that asked her for truth in shadesmar was not puppy (though she's not sure) so things are even more muddy on the sugject.

[Bloodfalcon he/him]

In the newly released chapter, though, she thinks the voice that asked her for truth in shadesmar was not puppy (though she's not sure) so things are even more muddy on the sugject.

 

but I cannot say, as he seems to have forgotten much about himself.

 

I addressed that this might be a problem and said that I still think it will have been Puppy. No more muddy than expected.