SconeScout Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 So I've more than not polished up on all those years spent ignorant of the cosmere but there are a few questions that I'd really appreciate if you could answer. 1. In SoS, it's plainly stated that Ruin's power is to "talk" while Preservation's is to "hear". It very much contradicts the moments in HoA where Preservation's power was used to convey messages. Could anyone help me out with this? I'm confused. 2. I was just wondering if a theory that I've been able to piece up was correct. In SA, a lot of visions said that Rayse must choose a champion, and that they (shards i assume) follow a set of rules, and must abide by them. Sixth of the Dust confirmed this but doesn't this just jumble the purpose of human beings in Scadrial? Therefore Ruin and Preservation were only following a guidebook of sorts when they made mankind, hinting the existence of at least one more shard that we hadn't met before. 3. Lastly, I've seen this around a lot but I just don't know the sources, so... What confirmation do you have that Galladon and Demoux are from the 17th shard? And also how Zahel is Vasher? Sorry for being woefully ignorant but yeah thanks 1
Edgedancer he/him Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 1)He specifically is refering to talking into the mind of someone with a spike. I guess you are talking about Kelsier talking to Spook at the end of HoA? Yeah, I have no clue. Maybbe being a cognitive shadow gave him abilities that Preservation is restricted on? 2)This is a lot of weird stuff we don't really know. For Odium it could be connected to his imprisonment on Braize or it could be something more general. On Scadrial, again these things are weird and by weird I mean how the Intends interact with the urge to create. Sazed implies that the Shard of Preservation seeks out a mind to control it because without it the Shard's power would just create a standstill in which nothing could be created, which further implies that Shards have an imperative to create above even their Intends. Yet Ruin apparently had to be persuaded to create humanity and would just completely destroy everything beyond repair if given the chance or at least that's Vin's impression upon holding a Shard herself. This again leads to some of the "worse" Shards being bad only because they lack context and yet they still seem to have some kind of left over from Adonalasium as the source of creation? I dunno. *shrugs* 3)Apart from the hints given in text? I'm pretty sure Brandon has confirmed them directly but I'd need to dig for sources a bit. 1
skaa he/him Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) 1. In SoS, it's plainly stated that Ruin's power is to "talk" while Preservation's is to "hear". It very much contradicts the moments in HoA where Preservation's power was used to convey messages. Could anyone help me out with this? I'm confused. Here's an old post where Senor Feesh kindly compiled a couple of WoBs from the HoA Annotations that deal with that question. It basically boils down to Shards being able to communicate more easily with people that have a very strong connection to them. 3. Lastly, I've seen this around a lot but I just don't know the sources, so... What confirmation do you have that Galladon and Demoux are from the 17th shard? And also how Zahel is Vasher? Sorry for being woefully ignorant but yeah thanks Theoryland's Interview Database is a very useful (though incomplete) resource for things like these. Here's a page showing a bunch of Zahel-related WoBs, plenty of which imply that Zahel is Vasher. That Galladon and Demoux are in the 17th Shard is strongly hinted at by the combination of the following facts: In WoK, Hoid says he's being chased by the 17th Shard. There is a scene in WoK where certain foreigners were looking for Hoid somewhere in Purelake. We have WoBs that Galladon and Demoux are in the Purelake scene. The only one I could find in Theoryland isn't very good, but there are more conclusive WoBs here (search for Galladon) and here (a very hard-to-find WoB from a 2011 West Jordan signing Twitter report). I'm still trying to look for a WoB explicitly stating that Galladon and Demoux are 17th Shard members, but at this point I think it's silly to not have that conclusion given the facts listed above. I don't quite get your second question. Would you mind rephrasing it? Edited December 22, 2015 by skaa 1
Edgedancer he/him Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 Here's an old post where Senor Feesh kindly compiled a couple of WoBs from the HoA Annotations that deal with that question. It basically boils down to Shards being able to communicate more easily with people that have a very strong connection to them. So... Kelsier can talk to a guy because said guys reveres him as a hero/deity who is a misting but, if i remember correctly, has one spike, which should make it harder according to the second WoB, but Sazed needs spikes to talk to people that are mistings,ferrings,twinborn and literally and knowingly revere him as their one and only god?
skaa he/him Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) So... Kelsier can talk to a guy because said guys reveres him as a hero/deity who is a misting but, if i remember correctly, has one spike, which should make it harder according to the second WoB, but Sazed needs spikes to talk to people that are mistings,ferrings,twinborn and literally and knowingly revere him as their one and only god? Spook already removed the spike at that point (the other "Kelsier" he was talking to before that was actually Ati). Edited December 22, 2015 by skaa
Edgedancer he/him Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 Spook already removed the spike at that point (the other "Kelsier" he was talking to before that was actually Ati). Right, just couldn't quite remember if he talked to Spook before or after he removed the spike. Anyway, you'd think that Sazed would be able to at least talk with his more devout followers without the need of a spike.
skaa he/him Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) Anyway, you'd think that Sazed would be able to at least talk with his more devout followers without the need of a spike. Sure, but have we met any non-Hemalurgic character who treats Harmony the same way Spook treated Kelsier? I don't think so. Wax certainly did not. But then, the way Pathians are explicitly taught not to think about their god too much doesn't exactly inspire strong religious feelings in people. His own religion undermines adoration instead of cultivating it. (This is probably by design, as Sazed doesn't want to be worshiped.) Edited December 22, 2015 by skaa
Moogle Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) So... Kelsier can talk to a guy because said guys reveres him as a hero/deity who is a misting but, if i remember correctly, has one spike, which should make it harder according to the second WoB, but Sazed needs spikes to talk to people that are mistings,ferrings,twinborn and literally and knowingly revere him as their one and only god? Speculation, but I'm pretty confident in it: The only people holders of Preservation seem able to talk to are those with extremely close connections (in a Spiritual sense). And even then, things didn't work out so well. Vin and Elend. Spook and Kelsier (Spook worshiped the guy). Harmony has no such close connections in the present day, so it makes sense he needs Hemalurgic spikes to talk to people. We have this WoB: Question How is it that Nightblood, who is merely a near-sentient awakened object, was able to read minds, something a Shard like Ruin was unable to do? Brandon Sanderson It requires bonding (with the person whose mind is to be read) to read minds. (source) It would make sense for it to work the opposite way, too, for something like Preservation which has an Intent opposed to broadcasting thoughts. Edited December 22, 2015 by Moogle 1
Ari he/him Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 (edited) Right, just couldn't quite remember if he talked to Spook before or after he removed the spike. Anyway, you'd think that Sazed would be able to at least talk with his more devout followers without the need of a spike. It depends exactly how the rules work on that. So far to date this rule has only functioned with Shard holders who have previously had a two-way connection in which the person not currently holding a shard implicitly trusts the one currently holding a shard. (ie. Spook-Kelsier and Elend-Vin) In which case, Era 2 Sazed wouldn't be able to utilise this rule to talk to people as he never previously had a two-way relationship with any of them before Ascending. It may be as general as Moogle is implying, it may be more specific- it's hard to tell with precisely two so similar data points! On the OP's second question... that's an ongoing Thing We're Trying To Sort Out about the Stormlight Archive- I think the prevailing consensus in Cosmere Theories has been that until we understand more what Honour was talking about with regards to champions, we should assume it's something that specifically applies to Odium's current situation. (Which may or may not mean that the reason he's bound to Braize has something to do with why a Champion would be useful in fighting him off) A lot of the best theories have speculated that Honour has bound Odium in some way that not only traps him in the Rosharan solar system, but also obliges him to follow certain rules that would normally seem aligned more with Honour's intent than Odium's. Basically we'll need to Read And Find Out a bit more on this subject. Edited December 27, 2015 by Ari
SconeScout Posted January 4, 2016 Author Posted January 4, 2016 Thanks a lot for all the answers. ) now where can I post a theory?
Moogle Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 Thanks a lot for all the answers. ) now where can I post a theory? Just making a thread for your theory in the Cosmere Theories is probably the best place. Hope to read your theory soon!
skaa he/him Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 (edited) If your theory involves Worldhoppers, multiple Shardworlds, multiple Shards, or the Three Realms, you should post it here in the Cosmere Theories forum. If it doesn't involve those, and if it's only about one particular series, you could post it the forum for that series. Some people post series-specific theories here in the Cosmere Theories forum, and nobody ever seems to bother them for it, so I guess that's okay. Edited January 4, 2016 by skaa
Moogle Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 Some people post series-specific theories here in the Cosmere Theories forum, and nobody ever seems to bother them for it, so I guess that's okay. Depends on the theory, but in my experience it seems a ton of theories easily turn to discussing general Cosmere things and so should probably go into this forum just to reduce the number of spoiler tags needed. But that's personal preference. For example, it's hard to discuss Heralds without discussing Returned, and hard to discuss Taravangian's intelligence without discussing Elend's duralumin atium burn at some point. At least for me. Even though a lot of these things are series-specific, discussing them in detail almost always necessitates drawing parallels to other series.
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