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The Shardbearer that Kaladin Killed Used a Surge - Theory


Natans

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Ok, I was re-reading WOK and a noticed a odd thing that catched my attention in the begining of the book, more precisely in the Cenn POV, see below what was said.

 

"He leaned back, staring up at the sky. He could hear faint thunder.That was odd. the sky was cloudless."

 

But why this is important? Well after this "odd thunder", mysteriously a Shardbearer appeared out of thin air in the midlle of battle. And he was a Veden shardbearer  that shoudn't be in that particular battlefield. Even Amaram was catched by suprised for this odd occurrence.

 

So my question is, from where this Shardbearer come? Or better how he appeared in the middle of the battle?

Well we now that the use of many surges create or are associated with "thunder and lightnings". Like Kaladin jump in the Tower battle, Jasnah soulcast ray, the falling radiants of Sky, Kaladin stormvision, etc.

 

So what you guy think, maybe this "odd thunder" that Cenn noticed are in true the after affect of a surge being used by the Veden Shardbearer to travel to the battlefield. I don't know if he used himself the surge, or other person gived him a lift,or if that was a fabrial, but we know that BS like to let clues in his books, and a odd ocurrence of thunder moments before a strange shardebeared apparence for sure raised some flags to me, what you guy think ?

 

 

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I always thought the thunder was just the horse the Shardbearer was riding. Shardplate is incredibly heavy - you can't stand in it without it being powered - so the horse would have to be bigger than & stronger than even a normal horse...so a galloping one could sound like thunder.

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Yes, in many parts o the books thunder is associeted with this. But in this case I fell that there is something else going on. When the Batalionlord that kaladin killed appeared he also was on horse but no "odd distant thunder" was heard.

 

I can be wrong but think about Sanderson is subtle. Ages before Kaladin begin to uses actively his power there are "odds distorcions in the air", Dalinar sharplate oddly "almost looked to be shining", etc, there are plenty of examples of things that are vaguely alluded to later be showed like something of importance. 

 

So when the word "odd" appear I pay attention because the chances are that there are something going on =)

 

Tks for the feedback =)

Edited by Natans
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Guest Alaxel

Ooh, nice catch Natans. I'm gonna have to go back and read the whole thing in context. Specifically, I'm going to look for the description of the enemy army. Are they fighting with the confidence that comes from having a full shardbearer on their side against an enemy that has none? Or is his presence a surprise to them as well?

I'll edit this post with my findings.

First Edit: I forgot to opine that even the hoofbeats of a horse bearing a shardbearer would likely be imperceptible amongst the other sounds of battle.

Second Edit: Upon further review, it seems like the thunder was merely the sound of the Shardbearer and his horse. I think a teleporting Shardbearer likely would have caused more of a scene than he did. Plus, if he was a surgebinder, I don't know if Kaladin would have been able to beat him. I'm wishing for hints and clues so badly sometimes that I see them when they're not there.

However, I will never mind pursing a false trail.

Edited by Alaxel
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Well, Re-re-re-reading this passage i'ts hard to tell, but indeed in context could be the sound of "horse", i gonna hold jugment about this one. Maybe I'm lookig too deep but WOK have too many layer (like hoid anagram) sometimes to me is hard to tell junk for gold =)

 

Tks for the head's up guys, this is why I like the 17th Shard so much this "coletive community mind" make possible work on every detail if the book what would be impossible to do alone =)

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I also reread the passage, and I found something that supports the OP:

 

Pg.47 "a Rider bearing down on them in gleaming armor that seemed to radiate light." (Emphasis mine )

 

Surgebinder anyone? Could killing a fellow Surgebinder be what caused Kaladin's uneasiness to take the Shards? (Or Sly to cause him to refuse?)

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I'm sorry to disagree. (edit: the url to the smiley broke so imagine a smiley here)

I'm confident, that Cenn -- who suffered from a great blood loss and was near death, lying on the stony ground -- heard the galloping horse. His body might have felt numb but I think his senses where alert and took in what the others missed hearing (at least in this group; we were never said what others who where in that Shardbearers way, saw or heard). Too, his oversensitivity led him to think that the armor "seemed to radiate light."

Second edit for another thought: @Natans: You think he might have used travel-surge? But then: Why the horse and can a horse even be transported by that travel-surge?

Edited by Meg
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Even the first time through, I read the "distant thunder" bit as hinting that Cenn was about to have a death-quote moment and his consciousness was easing between realms. After multiple re-reads I still think this is the case: he can hear the storm beyond, nothing to do with the horse or with surgebinding.

Compare this deathquote (emphasis mine):

I’m cold. Mother, I’m cold. Mother? Why can I still hear the rain? Will it stop?
-Collected on Vevishes, 1172, 32 seconds pre-death. Subject was a lighteyes female child, six years old.

Also, this one (emphasis mine):

Light grows so distant. The storm never stops. I am broken, and all around me have died. I weep for the end of all things. He has won. Oh, he has beaten us.
-Dated Palahakev, 1173, 16 seconds pre-death. Subject: A Thaylen sailor.

 

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I'm sorry to disagree. (edit: the url to the smiley broke so imagine a smiley here)

I'm confident, that Cenn -- who suffered from a great blood loss and was near death, lying on the stony ground -- heard the galloping horse. His body might have felt numb but I think his senses where alert and took in what the others missed hearing (at least in this group; we were never said what others who where in that Shardbearers way, saw or heard). Too, his oversensitivity led him to think that the armor "seemed to radiate light."

Second edit for another thought: @Natans: You think he might have used travel-surge? But then: Why the horse and can a horse even be transported by that travel-surge?

 

Travel yes =)

 

Horse why not ? Don't see why limit the travel surge only to the user. All evidences of points to  the Travel surge be like a Stargate kind of device. Like the  Oathgates tax to use this service that to me indicate a complex system that could be used for anyone one (not only surge users) like in nohadon family example. If you could transport a "muggle" you could transport a horse to I believe.

 

And after you guys point out that be the thunder sound could be horse I'm unsure if any surge was used. I gonna wait Amaram take on the events in the next book to see if really there is something here.

 

Tks again.

 

=)

 

PS: 

 

The first one make sense, like when the Shin refused to talk about the true that he saw.

 

Light grows so distant. The storm never stops. I am broken, and all around me have died. I weep for the end of all things. He has won. Oh, he has beaten us.

-Dated Palahakev, 1173, 16 seconds pre-death. Subject: A Thaylen sailor.

 

 

This one I believe that are a direct quote of the Almighty, not a the dying person take in some vision =)

 

But one upvote for the idea make sense =)

Edited by Natans
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I don't think so... I can't really point out why, but I have a feel that anyone using surges while in shardplate would have to have glowing glyphs on the shardplate. The thing that enabled the KR to use surges while in shardplate that "doesn't work" (Szeths words) with surges, nor can be influenced by surge may be the same thing that couses their plate to glow.

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I'm sorry to disagree. (edit: the url to the smiley broke so imagine a smiley here)

I'm confident, that Cenn -- who suffered from a great blood loss and was near death, lying on the stony ground -- heard the galloping horse. His body might have felt numb but I think his senses where alert and took in what the others missed hearing (at least in this group; we were never said what others who where in that Shardbearers way, saw or heard). Too, his oversensitivity led him to think that the armor "seemed to radiate light."

Second edit for another thought: @Natans: You think he might have used travel-surge? But then: Why the horse and can a horse even be transported by that travel-surge?

Have you ever suffered a large amount of blood loss? Meaning no disrespect, I'm not an expert and can only provide my own account. But I didn't feel an acute sharpening of my senses. Quite the opposite, my body felt heavy, my vision was difficult to focus, I could hear but everything was 'hollow' like talking through a large tube. Above that there was the constant sound of rushing blood in my ears. 

I just don't think Cenn would suddenly have vampire senses from an injury.

 

As far as the Travel Surge is concerned, the Shardbearer could have commandeered pretty much any horse he saw that would serve. LoL just imagined a Shardbearer mugging..

Setting that aside, what if he used some form of Lashing? A Windrunner could Lash himself and his horse into the air right?

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Have you ever suffered a large amount of blood loss? Meaning no disrespect, I'm not an expert and can only provide my own account. But I didn't feel an acute sharpening of my senses. Quite the opposite, my body felt heavy, my vision was difficult to focus, I could hear but everything was 'hollow' like talking through a large tube. Above that there was the constant sound of rushing blood in my ears.

Thanks for sharing your experience with us. Surely you will be right then. I imagined that Cenn might have had kind of a -- probably not sharpened but -- twisted sense for his environment.

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Is it possible that he wasn't the surgebinder but some one else used the travel surge like a stargate opened for a moment for him to step though the air pressure difference between to two places is what caused the sound of thunder he steeped though and the gate was let go that would explain the suden aperence in an army he was almost certinly not a part of and why he needed a horse I like this therory but not sure if this was a clue or just a symptom of cen's blood loss 

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