Bavadin's Shard in Shadows of Self

[Zaineph]

Ok so this might be a long shot and I'm making a couple of assumptions, but I've just finished Shadows of Self and was thinking about the Shard that might have made the new metal and was controlling Bleeder.

 

A few people on here have been throwing Odium's name around as there was a lot hatred taking place as a result of Bleeder's actions in Shadows of Self. However whenever Wax actually talks to Bleeder she goes on about Freedom and being released from control.

 

On the other side, after keeping it quite for a long time, Brandon recently informed us of the intent of Bavadin's shard:

 

Autonomy.

 

If you look Autonomy up in the dictionary on Google, the 3rd definition is:

 

"freedom from external control or influence; independence."

 

This seems to match Bleeder's attitude throughout the entire book, which lead's me to think that it is Bavadin's shard that is influencing her. Also Brandon doesn't like to reveal information about book before we have had a chance to read them, but seems to be happy to tease us with clues and little tidbits that might have relavence in the near future. So the timely reveal of Bavadin's shard does seem to fit.

 

However if this is Bavadin's shard then this poses 2 major questions among loads of smaller ones:

 

1. Has Trell now take control of Autonomy, and if so what happened to Bavadin?

2. If Bavadin is still in control, then who the hell is Trell and what are her motives?

 

Anyway, that's my two cents. Anyone agree with me? Or do you think this is stupid and want to shut me down? Let me know your thought.

 

>Zaineph<

 

 

 

 

 

[Nat]

The main question is if "current" Trell is the same as pre-Lord Ruler Trell.

 

I also really want to know if the thousand eyes of Trell are the stars as a whole or just the Starbelt. And if any of the shardworlds are located in the starbelt. I might be completely off base there though.

[skaa]

I wouldn't call it stupid, but I'm biased.   If you look at that thread, you'll find that many others like that theory.

 

I have personally changed my mind since then, not because of anything conclusive, but because others here have led me to an idea that, to me, is more awesome.

 

But knowing Brandon, he probably thought of something even more awesome than either idea.

Edited November 18, 2015 by skaa

[Purelake Earthquake]

I think Odium and Autonomy are the two most popular theories.  I probably lean toward the Autonomy.

 

My view on the name Trell is that it comes from mythology, which probably traces back to whatever was going on in Yolen.  Trell could just be another name for Bavadin or something.

 

I don't know where White Sand goes on the timeline, but I can look at everything.  Trellagism predates the Final Empire, the only book we have older than Mistborn is Elantris.  It could predate that too, it's been at least 1000 years.

 

Right now Era 2 and SA are the latest books in the series (discounting novellas).  SoS takes place between SA 5 and 6.  Hoid mentions Bavadin in the WoK letter, talking as if he is still alive and a threat.  The letter seems to be written around the same time as the book.  So I doubt that Bavadin's power has been usurped in such a short time.

 

Trell is just what Miles talks about and what they assume the power to be coming from at the end.  But that term has been around for a lot longer than we've seen Bavadin talked about, so it's probably more likely that if they are seperate Trell would have been the first Shardholder and then Bavadin.

 

Oh, we may be able to assume that WS is before SA because we see a character from it appearing in the WoK interlude with the 17th Shard, the other members are appearing after their books.

 

 

Anyway, Trell is a mythological name, I don't see why it has to be a different entity than Bavadin, no other Shards go by their own names on planet.

 

I think a lot of this has to do with the goings on with Dragonsteel and the shattering, which we can't accurately predict.  Maybe all the shards were held by different people on Yolen before going off planet.

[Khyrindor]

I'm of the opinion that Odium and Autonomy are working together. Timeline as follows:

 

Odium was involved in splintering Aona and Skai, the holders of Devotion and Dominion. (The Letter)

 

Shards come in pairs, but not all of them are as nicely paired as Ruin and Preservation. It makes sense to me that Odium's opposite is Devotion (part of Devotion is love, part of Odium is hate), and the opposite of Autonomy is Dominion (Autonomy is freedom, Dominion is control). 

 

Rayse enlists Bavadin's help in splintering Aona and Skai (my own little assumption. WoB says Odium would be willing to work with other Shard's as long as he were in charge. Autonomy wouldn't like being ruled, but if it followed his intent of freeing people, and killing his opposite, I could see him doing it).

 

Fast forward to after Stormlight five. I could see Odium breaking free of the system in which he's trapped (letter) and going after the one he fears most (WoB), Harmony, while enlisting once again the help of an old comrade, Autonomy (theory).

 

This is why Bleeder was hateful, and looking to free people. 

 

At least that's my little theory. 

[DSC01]

Trell probably does not hold Bavadin's Shard. There was a WoB somewhere that suggests (he was being rather coy about it) that Trell is indeed a worldhopper, and he seeded a religion or two different places in the Cosmere. Certainly, he did on Scadrial, where his name survives as that of a god.

 

Now, here's the thing--the original Trell, god of Trelagism from Mistborn Era 1, doesn't seem to bear much resemblance to the Trell of Trellism that we see in the Era 2 books. My personal hypothesis is that Bavadin (probably working with Rayse) is influencing Trellism. He chose Trell, in particular, as a sort of revenge against the worldhopper.

[iBambam]

That is a very good theory,I never thought about autonomy in my theory of odium influencing Paalm. It does make sense though as Paalm really is following autonomy's intent, with a little anger and hatred mixed in with odium's help. Interesting

[NewbSombrero]

As I think on it now, we do have a sidelong reference to Autonomy (self) in the title of the book. Could be a red herring or an Easter egg, I'm not sure which.

[Charononus]

As I think on it now, we do have a sidelong reference to Autonomy (self) in the title of the book. Could be a red herring or an Easter egg, I'm not sure which.

I'm not positive on this,  but I think in the past the mistspirit was referenced as the shadow of self.  Not sure what this would mean.

[Eagle of the Forest Path]

I'm not positive on this,  but I think in the past the mistspirit was referenced as the shadow of self.  Not sure what this would mean.

 

That is probably correct. During Hero of Ages (chapter 75) one of the kandra first generation talked about the shadow of self.

It's not directly confirmed to be the mist spirit, but I have a hard time thinking of what else it could be.

 

...

"Does this not mean, then, that Preservation has returned?"

"That is impossible," Haddek said "Preservation's power remains, for power cannot be destroyed. his mind, however, was all but destroyed - for this was the sacrifice he made to imprison Ruin."

"The sliver remains," another reminded. "The shadow of self."

...

 

[NewbSombrero]

I'm definitely in agreement on the mist spirit reference, but titles can have multiple meanings, much like Changes from the Dresden Files.