Hazekiller Rounds

[jParker]

The other option would be to design them with bad aerodynamics that would make them corkscrew in every direction and change speed unpredictably

Like a sawed-off/blunderbuss? Because that seems like the most effective way of dealing with most Mistborn shy of using proximity-fuse rounds. And as you mentioned earlier, that's pretty much BFG territory. 

 

I wonder how frangible rounds would affect a bloodmaker...

[name_here]

They'd be pretty ineffective against the external physicals and of dubious value against Thugs. As for frangible rounds against a Bloodmaker, I guess that they'd tear up more organs and require more healing, but not do anything particularly special and the fragments would be ejected with the healing.

[Swimmingly he/him]

I'm tending to agree to the "death of a thousand cuts, twice" method of dealing with bloodmakers - Allomantic pewter could probably shrug those off though. Bloodmaking is just so bloody all-encompassing that it seems the only way of killing one is to exhaust the supply by putting a lot of drains on it, quickly. Or just tie them up, impale them with something sharp, long, and heavy, and leave it there. For irony value, making it out of gold would even be a possibility, given that they couldn't store anything in it. You'd have to be really, really cruel and rich for that though. I mean, that's a Bond death if there ever was one - Wayne has been captured, and impaled with a gold spear! He had tons of health stored up, or the spear isn't somewhere that will kill him quickly, but Wax has to pay the ransom before he runs out of health and bleeds to death on the spear! Or just break in and save him.

[Oudeis he/him]

Bloodmaking is just so bloody all-encompassing that it seems the only way of killing one is to exhaust the supply by putting a lot of drains on it, quickly.

 

Nope. Bloodmaking is easy. Miles was a Compounder and that made him a special case. It's expressly stated constantly throughout the book. If Wayne got shot in the head, he'd be dead, no matter if he had a dozen full metalminds on him at the time. Or decapitated. There's a couple of insta-deaths that would work, not to mention Feruchemy's eternal weakness; remove the goldminds. Miles is able to keep all of his piercing his skin because he literally had health to burn; I could be mistaken, and please someone correct me, but it's rarely safe to leave metal bigger than an earring embedded in your skin (especially at the level of technology/medicine available at the time of Alloy of Law). You'd use up any health you saved just trying to avoid infections, I believe. Without them piercing your skin, any coinshot or lurcher can at least tell where you've got them, even if it's something like a bracer that you can't simply pull off of them; even then, wearing metal that any lurcher or coinshot can use to drag you around the battlefield isn't the smartest move.

 

I don't think bloodmaking is as combat over-powered as people seem to think it is.

[Swimmingly he/him]

Nope. Bloodmaking is easy. Miles was a Compounder and that made him a special case. It's expressly stated constantly throughout the book. If Wayne got shot in the head, he'd be dead, no matter if he had a dozen full metalminds on him at the time. Or decapitated. There's a couple of insta-deaths that would work, not to mention Feruchemy's eternal weakness; remove the goldminds. Miles is able to keep all of his piercing his skin because he literally had health to burn; I could be mistaken, and please someone correct me, but it's rarely safe to leave metal bigger than an earring embedded in your skin (especially at the level of technology/medicine available at the time of Alloy of Law). You'd use up any health you saved just trying to avoid infections, I believe. Without them piercing your skin, any coinshot or lurcher can at least tell where you've got them, even if it's something like a bracer that you can't simply pull off of them; even then, wearing metal that any lurcher or coinshot can use to drag you around the battlefield isn't the smartest move.

 

I don't think bloodmaking is as combat over-powered as people seem to think it is.

We're talking about bullets that would be extra effective against bloodmakers - a bullet that can kill or incapacitate a man able to heal his injuries in minutes. A headshot would work - but no better or worse than on anybody else, same with all those other methods. We want ways to gain advantages if you don't have allomancy. Allomancy is not something everyone and their dog has, and only an eighth of the ones who do could drag anybody around by their bracers on the battlefield. A bloodmaker could also have decoy metalminds on them that go loose if pushed or pulled on too strongly. And remember, a bloodmaker facing any coinshot or lurcher but an Allomantic iron/Allomantic steel and Feruchemical iron/Feruchemical pewter twinborn could anchor themselves and give the shover a push/pull as well unless they were already anchored on something else.

[MathEpic he/him]

In The Final Empire the Lord Ruler is said to have shrugged off decapitation, and I am pretty sure Wax hit Miles in the head at one point in Alloy of Law.

 

In order to overcome some kind of instakill attack I think you have to be tapping a great deal of health before and during the injury in order to be effective.  I don't see Wane pulling this off since he has to store up his health the hard way, but the gold compounders seem to be able to pull it off. 

[DocHoliday he/him]

We're talking about bullets that would be extra effective against bloodmakers - a bullet that can kill or incapacitate a man able to heal his injuries in minutes. A headshot would work - but no better or worse than on anybody else, same with all those other methods. We want ways to gain advantages if you don't have allomancy. Allomancy is not something everyone and their dog has, and only an eighth of the ones who do could drag anybody around by their bracers on the battlefield. A bloodmaker could also have decoy metalminds on them that go loose if pushed or pulled on too strongly. And remember, a bloodmaker facing any coinshot or lurcher but an Allomantic iron/Allomantic steel and Feruchemical iron/Feruchemical pewter twinborn could anchor themselves and give the shover a push/pull as well unless they were already anchored on something else.

Bloodmakers don't have a second Feruchemichal ability, so they would have to be Allomantic iron or Allomantic steel...

That being said, they only method is to wear out their goldminds or blow their head off.

 

If the former, Uzi.

 

If the latter, sniper.

[Swimmingly he/him]

Bloodmakers don't have a second Feruchemichal ability, so they would have to be Allomantic iron or Allomantic steel...

That being said, they only method is to wear out their goldminds or blow their head off.

 

If the former, Uzi.

 

If the latter, sniper.

If you reread, you'll note that I said when a bloodmaker is FACING anybody but those combinations, he can pretty easily anchor and push back, or else force the pusher to abandon the effort. Maybe a compounder could push hard enough, but the way steel works, they would be injured as much or more than the competition.

[king of nowhere]

In The Final Empire the Lord Ruler is said to have shrugged off decapitation, and I am pretty sure Wax hit Miles in the head at one point in Alloy of Law.

 

In order to overcome some kind of instakill attack I think you have to be tapping a great deal of health before and during the injury in order to be effective.  I don't see Wane pulling this off since he has to store up his health the hard way, but the gold compounders seem to be able to pull it off. 

I'm pretty sure brandon stated somewhere that it was an exaggerated legend, and tlr would have died with decapitation (but good luck decapitatijng him fast enough to avoid regeneration: chances are, he can heal faster than you can cut). Other overkill methods like passing a bulldozer over him or exploding him with a big bomb should work. There are ways around gold compounding. But none of them can fit small arms. Except the spike bullet to steal power, which would be very elegant but require perfect aiming and obscure knowledge.

 

For normal Feruchemical gold, I'd go with barbed bullets made in a way to stick into the wounds. So that when the bloodmaker tries to heal, he can't expel the bullet, and it will drain him over time. Such a bullet would be less aerodynamic, and therefore have a lower penetration capability, making it less effective against normal people.

For a slider, the best chance is to hit him when the bubble is off. otherwise, I'd go for a shotgun. At least some of the pellets should hit anyway. they have lower penetration power, so the slider shgould survive, but at least he cannot go around the battlefield with impunity.

For a steelrunner, I doubt any fering can store enough speed to go faster than a bullet for considerable time. Also, since they require a different metal to speed up their brain, going that fast is probably going to be very dangerous for them, as they could easily trip and fall, or hit something, which at that sped would have dire consequences. Furthermore, unless they are also thugs, their legs would probably break from the strain.

And anyway, even if they can run that fast, I doubt they also have enough control to hurt you while doing it.

So, just go with regular bullets, and wait for them to stop.

I don't know enough of spinners to try a hazekillr round for them.

[Pechvarry]

I have a feeling the reason a gold compounder can live through a shot to the head while a normal bloodmaker cannot is one of 2 things: the simple answer is that they're already tapping such massive amounts of health that the body takes care of injuries as they occur. The alternative is probably savantism.

IF it's the first, a bloodmaker could probably live through similar gruesome experiences by simply seeing it coming and having a massive store to dump inefficiently (all the healing used while waiting for the trigger pull is mostly wasted, but is necessary since the body needs a heal process already in effect). If this is the case, frangible/incendiary/etc would be pretty nice to have. Especially BEFORE you get a chance at that headshot.

Sidenote: I hope it's that and not savantism, because it would play very well with Allomantic electrum.

[name_here]

I think it really is just amount and rate of tapping, but normal bloodmakers would have extreme difficulty storing enough to regenerate their brain while a bullet is passing through it. I'm not sure exactly how much damage is required to make them officially dead and unable to tap, but I expect that having the brain stem severed for any length of time would do it.