Why do YOU like Stormlight Archive?

[Guest Alaxel]

The biggest thing that attracts me to the Stormlight Archives is the whole Categorical Imperative feel to it. For those of you who don't know or who aren't interested enough to investigate for yourselves, the Categorical Imperative is a system of moral philosophy proposed by Immanuel Kant. Kant proposes that there are certain actions, duties, or moral responsibilities that are absolute. They are both a means and an end. Most moral systems are Hypothetical Imperatives which are very situational. Something like, "Don't ever kill anyone. Except in self defense. Or in the defense of another. Or to defend your property." A Hypothetical Imperative is very situational. As you can see in my example, there are a lot of exceptions to the Imperative. You could even add more to it than what I listed. Like a Utilitarian twist to it. Something like, "Never kill an innocent person unprovoked. Unless the killing of that individual will save multiple other individuals." Human beings are NOT rational creatures. We are rationalizing creatures. Much like the Alethi, with enough thought we can do despicable things and convince ourselves that we're good and noble.

Not so the Categorical Imperative! It is black and white. Do and do not. A Categorical Imperative might be something like, "I will defend those that cannot defend themselves." There's no wigggle room there. It's an Imperative that is both an End and a Means. And it's such an unnatural way of thinking that I'm sure most people are entirely unfamiliar with the concept.

So, to watch characters struggle with this and not just automatically do it like an automaton, is really captivating, compelling, and it feels authentic. Even Kaladin struggles with his Ideal. He was very hesitant to help Dalinar Kholin at first. Not because he didn't want to, but because Categorical Imperatives, which will be referred to as Ideals from here on, are such an unnatural way of thinking that you cannot help but try to rationalize them. In this case, Kaladin thought it would be a lost cause that would accomplish nothing. He was still seeing his Ideal as a End whose Means influenced it and not as both a Means and an End simultaneously.

Sorry if that was too lengthy and/or boring. But it's a really fantastic concept that I have difficulty talking about without getting in depth.

The second biggest thing I love about the Stormlight Archives is its portrayal of the many faces of leadership. I spent four years as an Infantry Marine and am very, very well acquainted with both exceptional and incompetent leaders. I don't know if readers without a similar background would find it as enjoyable, but when I saw Dalinar Kholin dig a latrine...I swore that if some dark magic sent me to Roshar, I would follow Dalinar Kholin to the ends of the Cosmere. That small act meant more to me than his reputation as a legendary warrior. It told me, "This man cares about his men. They are more than just resources to be used economically and numbers in a ledger to him."

That type of leadership is precious and rare. In my experience, more leaders are concerned with, "What extra or dangerous duties can I volunteer my men to perform in order to make myself look better to my superiors?" Or, at best, indifference. Not a small amount are petty and bullies and they use their authority to show their dominance because that is their only sense of self worth. Brandon Sanderson has done a remarkable job portraying leadership. For those of you who are inexperienced with it - take my word for it. He does it so well that its sublime.

The third reason slightly contradicts the OP's instructions but...do you see my Avatar's mustache? A mustache that size plays by its own rules. That being said, the third season I love SA is this website. It's an excellent community and I now have a pathological need to check this site for new theories evey few hours. If I wake up in the middle of the night to take a leak, I'll check 17th Shard.

Edit: Spelling.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Alaxel

[Natans he/him]

The biggest thing that attracts me to the Stormlight Archives is the whole Categorical Imperative feel to it. For those of you who don't know or who aren't interested enough to investigate for yourselves, the Categorical Imperative is a system of moral philosophy proposed by Immanuel Kant. Kant proposes that there are certain actions, duties, or moral responsibilities that are absolute. They are both a means and an end. Most moral systems are Hypothetical Imperatives which are very situational. Something like, "Don't ever kill anyone. Except in self defense. Or in the defense of another. Or to defend your property." A Hypothetical Imperative is very situational. As you can see in my example, there are a lot of exceptions to the Imperative. You could even add more to it than what I listed. Like a Utilitarian twist to it. Something like, "Never kill an innocent person unprovoked. Unless the killing of that individual will save multiple other individuals." Human beings are NOT rational creatures. We are rationalizing creatures. Much like the Alethi, with enough thought we can do despicable things and convince ourselves that we're good and noble.

Not so the Categorical Imperative! It is black and white. Do and do not. A Categorical Imperative might be something like, "I will defend those that cannot defend themselves." There's no wigggle room there. It's an Imperative that is both an End and a Means. And it's such an unnatural way of thinking that I'm sure most people are entirely unfamiliar with the concept.

So, to watch characters struggle with this and not just automatically do it like an automaton, is really captivating, compelling, and it feels authentic. Even Kaladin struggles with his Ideal. He was very hesitant to help Dalinar Kholin at first. Not because he didn't want to, but because Categorical Imperatives, which will be referred to as Ideals from here on, are such an unnatural way of thinking that you cannot help but try to rationalize them. In this case, Kaladin thought it would be a lost cause that would accomplish nothing. He was still seeing his Ideal as a End whose Means influenced it and not as both a Means and an End simultaneously.

Sorry if that was too lengthy and/or boring. But it's a really fantastic concept that I have difficulty talking about without getting in depth.

The second biggest thing I love about the Stormlight Archives is its portrayal of the many faces of leadership. I spent four years as an Infantry Marine and am very, very well acquainted with both exceptional and incompetent leaders. I don't know if readers without a similar background would find it as enjoyable, but when I saw Dalinar Kholin dig a latrine...I swore that if some dark magic sent me to Roshar, I would follow Dalinar Kholin to the ends of the Cosmere. That small act meant more to me than his reputation as a legendary warrior. It told me, "This man cares about his men. They are more than just resources to be used economically and numbers in a ledger to him."

That type of leadership is precious and rare. In my experience, more leaders are concerned with, "What extra or dangerous duties can I volunteer my men to perform in order to make myself look better to my superiors?" Or, at best, indifference. Not a small amount are petty and bullies and they use their authority to show their dominance because that is their only sense of self worth. Brandon Sanderson has done a remarkable job portraying leadership. For those of you who are inexperienced with it - take my word for it. He does it so well that its sublime.

The third reason slightly contradicts the OP's instructions but...do you see my Avatar's mustache? A mustache that size plays by its own rules. That being said, the third season I love SA is this website. It's an excellent community and I now have a pathological need to check this site for new theories evey few hours. If I wake up in the middle of the night to take a leak, I'll check 17th Shard.

Edit: Spelling.

 

 

Man that remember me college.

 

Take this upvote Eloquent sir, you deserve =)

Edited November 19, 2013 by Natans

[Galladon he/him]

Have you ever seen one of those magnificent open clockworks where you can see all the tiny pieces moving in harmony or sometimes even seeming in dysharmony, only to become harmonic yet again in a larger pattern. This is what it feels like for me reading the Way of Kings.

You may examine any part and you'll sooner or later see how beautiful it is and that there is a reason for it's existance in that particullar place, you might not know what reason is, but you just know, you know....

[dionysus]

Upvote for Alaxel as well. I tend to be a Categorical Imperative type of guy and despise utilitarian arguments, so Sanderson appeals to me in the morality of his works and SA takes it to the next level.. The Way of Kings (the in universe book written by Nohadon) seems very Kantian from what we know of it so far.

 

The other reasons I like Sanderson have alot to do with how he avoids a lot of the things I dislike about other recent fantasy:.

 

1. Character Growth and Character Arcs - Probably my favorite thing about Sanderson, he does character growth well. His characters organically grow out of their pasts and the mistakes they make. They are not static.

 

2. Depiction of Morally Good Characters - His characters make mistakes and have personality flaws. So they are not perfect, but his protagonists, and especially in SA, are often without fundamental moral failings that seem so popular in modern literature. Kaladin never has a problem with his moral compass, his problems stem from depression, fear, and hopelessness. It just feels refreshing with something like ASOIAF so dominant and spawning so many copycats in the fantasy genre to read a character who is good, and succeeds because they are good.

 

3. Buildup-Climax-Resolution - Sanderson in my opinion does climaxes better than anyone. Kaladin rescuing dalinar, Kelsier fight in book 1 of Mistborn, etc. For that great climax there needs to be a satisfying buildup including foreshadowing and suspense, and that is what alot of other authors miss. A lot fo sword and sorcery authors can write a good battle scene, but when Sanderson gets to that climax it is better than just good writing and properly foreshadowed twists, it is the culmination of a masterful buildup and ties in to the culmination of the protagonists story arcs. When Kaladin says that 2nd ideal and kicks This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rules, we have seen him training with the spear, building that relationship with Syl, overcoming his own hopelessness and fear of leadership, and discovering tidbits about the Radiants. It makes the climax that much better because it is not just the climax of the action, but also the completion of the moral code being discovered in the book, the completion of a satisfying story arc, etc. The Rithmatist is another good example of how the character story arcs come into play in the climax.

 

4. Main characters actually talk to each other. If the narrator tells us they are friends, they actually behave like friends. So much literature uses the interactions between the "good" guys to build suspense. So if you ignore what the author tells the reader is going on and actually look at how the characters behave toward each other, the relationship is more one of schoolyard rivals or even mortal enemies and not one of friendship. (WoT is an egregious example of this.)

 

5. Hopefully the cast of characters won't grow out of control.

[Argent he/him]

5. Hopefully the cast of characters won't grow out of control.

 

This is one of the main reasons we have interludes

[Kersplattle]

This is interesting as I find that unlike it appears most of the participants on this forum, that Brandon's other works are simply not up to scratch (note that is IMHO, like all literature, YMMV). I've read nearly his entire output now, but after starting with WoK first, the others just don't have the polish or imagination; or they're often (to me anyway) too contrived. My biggest worry is that WoK will be the high point of skill, but I have high hopes for WoR, the small releases so far appear to match the original, I especially thought that the Dalinar (Purelake) and the Rsyn interludes have that simultaneous spareness of description yet a balance to inform us of what we need to know.

 

The WoK's is a standout and surprising different from his other works. I would echo much of the praise above, the characters, the tone of the characters especially the genuine heroicness of Dalinar and Kaladin, we all like genuinely good characters especially where they have profound weaknesses that they struggle to overcome.

 

The world is vividly imagined and sufficiently different or non-normal to fascinate; yet it is not described in excessive detail. It fits together because BS has a backstory so everything can fit. This is often missing in fantasy books where the world is made up sort of as the writer goes along leading to discontinuities and paradoxes; and that leads to a lessening of the immersion in the fantasy. This is for example one of the strengths of LOTR as a work of fantasy, Tolkien's complete formulation of a world as recorded in the Silmarillion and other works gives a depth and integrity to that world.

 

I find that many books have serious issues with magic as a feature, this is best described by the thought "if magic can do anything, why doesn't it do everything ?". Thus a writer needs to constrain magic quite strongly. This may not matter much in a lightweight book (Harry Potter being a classic) but can be a serious problem with "serious" fantasy. BS so far has implemented a constrained magic system which works. Too many KR's around might make it a super-hero style story if overdone, but we'll just have to trust BS's instincts here.

 

Interesting side question, does anyone think that Jasnah could have saved her father had she been present ? Could she have soulcast Szeth or is it that when he's infused he becomes an "invested object" that she cannot soulcast, or not easily ? What would the impact of attempting to soulcast him, would her use of stormlight take away Szeth's stormlight, that is the person with the greater amount would ultimately win, or would it have no impact, the stormlight Szeth holds would just block any affect ?

[Natans he/him]

Interesting side question, does anyone think that Jasnah could have saved her father had she been present ? Could she have soulcast Szeth or is it that when he's infused he becomes an "invested object" that she cannot soulcast, or not easily ? What would the impact of attempting to soulcast him, would her use of stormlight take away Szeth's stormlight, that is the person with the greater amount would ultimately win, or would it have no impact, the stormlight Szeth holds would just block any affect ?

 

Apparently she didn't discovery her powers until after Gavilar death, see WOR prologue to clarify that. So if she was present worst scenario she would be killed (and best scenario Szeth would fall in love with her, correct Moogle ?

[Kersplattle]

Sorry Natans, I've read the prologue and I don't see a reference to her soulcasting, except that mention of her shadow. The fact that she is unsure of it, is that what you mean ? That she would know what it meant was she further advanced into her studies that lead to her being able to soulcast ? A touch cryptic to be sure.

 

But I could certainly accept that she developed the skills subsequent to Gavilar's death.

 

Soulcasting must be a powerful skill, a soulcaster would make a very good assassin.

[Natans he/him]

Sorry Natans, I've read the prologue and I don't see a reference to her soulcasting, except that mention of her shadow. The fact that she is unsure of it, is that what you mean ? That she would know what it meant was she further advanced into her studies that lead to her being able to soulcast ? A touch cryptic to be sure.

 

But I could certainly accept that she developed the skills subsequent to Gavilar's death.

 

Soulcasting must be a powerful skill, a soulcaster would make a very good assassin.

 

If she didn't know that the spreen are the shadow thing, I don't think she was able to soulcast after all, before you are able to use a surge you must to have a connection with a spreen. See Kaladin, Shallan exemples, first "bond with spren" later use a surge. Well that are my impression at least =)

[blackmagic3 he/him]

To me the Stormlight Archive embodies hope, which is one of the most powerful things a human can feel.

[Moogle]

Apparently she didn't discovery her powers until after Gavilar death, see WOR prologue to clarify that. So if she was present worst scenario she would be killed (and best scenario Szeth would fall in love with her, correct Moogle ?

 

I fully support JasnahxTaravangian, . Any other pairing is abhorrent in the eyes of gods and men.

 

As for Jasnah, it does indeed appear she was in the beginning stages of her bond. Poor Gavilar.

 

[Kersplattle]

One has to bond with a spen, well, as long as you're not Szeth !

 

I see your point though, we don't know for sure that Jasnah hadn't bonded sufficiently to soulcast but the implication is quite strong. Having a "wrong way" shadow is something that Aimians have, could this be related in some way ? And I haven't checked, but are there other indications in WoK where Jasnah (or Shallan) has this "shadow abnormality" ? As the prologue notes it is held to be a marker that one is cursed, not something Jasnah would find comfortable especially as a noted heretic. Khabsal would certainly have made much of it had it been noticed.

 

Also, is the shadow abnormality something for Jasnah's order or all KR's, any idea ?

[bookspren]

I think the weird shadow is something that happens in the early stage of bonding like Syl playing tricks on Kaladin early on and sticking random stuff together. She quit that once their bond grew stronger. I imagine the same thing happened for Jasnah; once she bonded with her spren, it stopped playing tricks. By the time Kabsal came along, Jasnah had had six or seven years to develop a strong bond. 

I think the shadow abnormality is specific to her order. Syl was mistaken for a common windspren because she initially acted like one. What ever kind of spren Jasnah has could probably be mistaken for a...shadowspren or whatever because it initially acts like one. Make sense? 

[el_warko he/him]

That all the characters are broken in some way, mentally, physically, emotionally.

 

The prelude was interesting (why I brought the book) but my AAAAAAAAWWWWWWWW  YYYYYYYEEAAHHH moment was when Szeth first did his first lashing.  I must have read and reread that paragraph about five times, put the book down (for like a second) and went Woah, similar to Neo in The Matrix when he learned Kung Fu.  Magic system awesome sauce.

 

Szeth is the man,a completely gripping character. A murderer who wants to be murdered.  The level of personal honour required to submit oneself so totally, it's astonishing.  You could argue, that Szeth is the most honourable character in the novel (albeit not in a traditional way).

[EmagSamurai]

This is interesting as I find that unlike it appears most of the participants on this forum, that Brandon's other works are simply not up to scratch (note that is IMHO, like all literature, YMMV). I've read nearly his entire output now, but after starting with WoK first, the others just don't have the polish or imagination; or they're often (to me anyway) too contrived. My biggest worry is that WoK will be the high point of skill, but I have high hopes for WoR, the small releases so far appear to match the original, I especially thought that the Dalinar (Purelake) and the Rsyn interludes have that simultaneous spareness of description yet a balance to inform us of what we need to know.

.........

 

I find myself worrying about this more as I move through BS's other works. I've read the original Mistborn trilogy, but didn't like it enough to read The Alloy of Law. I'm working on Elantris now, but I have to admit I'm not particularly captivated by it. Unless the story picks up dramatically in the second half, I don't know that I will read the planned sequel. 

 

Had I read these other books first, I very likely would have passed on TWoK all together. I certainly hope that the rest of the series is as good as the initial book as it is at the top of my list of all-time favorites!

 

As Kersplattle mentioned, this is also just MHO.

[Natans he/him]

To me all his books are consistent in quality(very good books). But, WOK is awesome, maybe because of the scope or maybe because is a book that he are working for a decade or so, you can clearly see that he worked veryyyyyyyyy hard in every detail (he said that the wrote 1000 pages or so only of notes). And this reflect in the overall quality of the book, what is normal after all, if you work more time in some thing it is probably that you will get a better result, his other works aren't so deep like the Stormlight archive so there are the diference.

 

I think that this serie, in particular, will mantian the quality estabilished in WOK, If you discount all the the hyper and antecipation right now,  apparently everyone that readed that monster of book believe that WOR are so good or better than WOK,and let me the be frank WOK are one of the best books that I ever read, if he equal or best that book I would be imensily happy =)

 

In the mainwhile I really don't mind read another of his works, because even if their aren't so good was WOK they are at least very good books =)

[IllNsickly he/him]

The moment i was hooked was in the Prelude. All of the Heralds, save the one who had died, left their obligation standing in a ring and walked away from it.

That was a VERY profound moment, at least to me.

And the well written story combined with well developed characters, a magic system that works (mostly) within the boundaries of physics (as far as i have been educated in Physics, at any rate). Have all combined to draw me in completely. Into this series and of the rest of the Cosmere.

edited to correct Prologue-Prelude

Edited December 18, 2013 by IllNsickly

[ollie99 she/her]

I first got hooked to the Stormlight Archive because of the magic aspect. Szeth's fight with Gavilar was really intriguing, opening up the world of Surgebinding, lashing, shardblades and shardplates, etc. But, I love the stormlight archive because of the character development.

 

The main characters were very well developed and fleshed out. Each was multi-dimensional and the storytelling had no wasted moments. It was well paced, revealing a little more about the characters while also leaving some mystery to them as well. They had depth and I especially liked the character development of Shallan and Kaladin, where we were able to see their perspectives in both the past and the present. Those characters were especially complex. The interludes were also nice because they gave a lot of additional insight into the storyline.

 

The whole world that was developed in stormlight archive is amazing. The hierarchy of lighteyes and darkeyes, different cultures, different kingdoms, different customs, different realms, all really make the world come to life and pull you into it, maybe even be a part of it.

 

The plot twists and turns are really the clincher. The writing is amazing! And I agree that the themes of good, hope and honor driving humanity make it all the more enjoyable, wishful and epic feeling.

[name_here]

I really, really like the setting itself. Stormlight, Highstorms, Shardplate, the crustacean ecosystem, spren, and so on. Lots of people complain about Generic Medieval European Fantasy, but very few decisively break out of the box like this.

 

I also have a strong fondness for Dalinar, and really like Jasnah as a well-written atheist.

 

Also, high concentrations of Hoid.

[Chrono she/her]

Characters. Characters, characters, characters. I love the freaking characters in this series. They are realistic. They make choices not because the plot demands it, but because it fits in with their mold. Kaladin is a great example of this: in WoR, he did several things that I was absolutely frustrated with. But I understood his reasoning, and it totally fit with his character. As a person who used to struggle with depression, his mental reasoning and emotional turmoil were both exquisitely done and painfully accurate. Shallan is also wonderfully done. And on and on and on.

 

Oh, and the plot was good too. And the setting. And the cultures. Really, just everything was good. The pacing was unbelievable.\

[Crawly]

The setting is the first thing that got me.  When many authors break from a real world inspired setting it tends to be unrelatable.

Mr. Sanderson has created a truly unique world while somehow keeping it all grounded in an internal logic reflected in the language, culture, and flora/fauna.