ivoryblade Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Shallan turns the goblet into blood using the Stormlight from the garnet broam given to her by Kabsal. After Soulcasting, the sphere becomes dun: Upon opening her pouch to check on the Soulcaster, she'd found that the sphere Kabsal had given her had stopped glowing. (The Way of Kings, 48) However, when Shallan gets poisoned, Jasnah uses the same garnet to save her: [shallan] upended [her safepouch], vaguely seeing a fuzzy golden object slip out onto the floor, alongside the garnet that Kabsal had given her. (The Way of Kings, 48) With trembling fingers, Shallan reached to the pouch on the stand beside her bed. Inside, she found the garnet sphere that Jasnah had used to save her. It gave off weak light; most had been used in the Soulcasting. (The Way of Kings, 70) How did Jasnah use the garnet when it was dun to begin with? Why would it even glow a tiniest bit afterward?
The Sovereign Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 How did Jasnah use the garnet when it was dun to begin with? Why would it even glow a tiniest bit afterward? I suspect you are simply over-analyzing this, Jasnah most likely just used a different Garnet to Soulcast Shallan's blood.
Edgedancer he/him Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) Shallan turns the goblet into blood using the Stormlight from the garnet broam given to her by Kabsal. After Soulcasting, the sphere becomes dun: However, when Shallan gets poisoned, Jasnah uses the same garnet to save her: How did Jasnah use the garnet when it was dun to begin with? Why would it even glow a tiniest bit afterward? Well (assuming you read WoR and it's the same gem) Jasnah is a Surgebinder herself, so she probably just infused the gem with the Stormlight she was holding. Edited August 25, 2015 by Edgedancer 2
ivoryblade Posted August 25, 2015 Author Posted August 25, 2015 Well (assuming you read WoR and it's the same gem) Jasnah is a Surgebinder herself, so she probably just infused the gem with the Stormlight she was holding. Hmm… this makes sense. I’m inclined to believe that Jasnah siphoned off some of the Stormlight from the gems on her fake Soulcaster and placed it into the garnet, since I doubt she’d be carrying all that Stormlight within herself all the time without glowing perpetually. And I’ve read WoR… though Jasnah’s ability was revealed in WoK anyway .
Oudeis he/him Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Hrm. There was time but not, I think, opportunity for the garnet to be re-infused in a Highstorm, yes? That alone should raise questions. Even without the Light being used, it's now been weeks since it was infused. It should have turned dun regardless.
ivoryblade Posted August 25, 2015 Author Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) Hrm. There was time but not, I think, opportunity for the garnet to be re-infused in a Highstorm, yes? That alone should raise questions. Even without the Light being used, it's now been weeks since it was infused. It should have turned dun regardless. TWoK isn’t that clear in my mind right now, but I believe that the incident of Shallan’s first Soulcasting and her ingesting Kabsal’s poison occurred quite closely to each other. She was hospitalized for ‘committing suicide’ to cover up for her Soulcasting, then Kabsal came to visit her at the hospital, and that was when she ate the poison. Edited August 25, 2015 by ivoryblade
Oudeis he/him Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 I gathered she had to wait a while, days at least. She was bored and desparate for visitors when she asked King Taravangion to allow her visitors. And I don't believe it was right away that both Kabsal and Jasnah came to see her. I've just begun a re-read and I'll watch out for this scene. I do recall it happened just at the end of one of the Parts, and that thereafter neither Shallan nor Jasnah were in the next Part... so Part 3, probably? Since the rest of their story takes us to the end of the book quite quickly.
Ansalem Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 I gathered she had to wait a while, days at least. She was bored and desparate for visitors when she asked King Taravangion to allow her visitors. And I don't believe it was right away that both Kabsal and Jasnah came to see her. I've just begun a re-read and I'll watch out for this scene. I do recall it happened just at the end of one of the Parts, and that thereafter neither Shallan nor Jasnah were in the next Part... so Part 3, probably? Since the rest of their story takes us to the end of the book quite quickly. Jasnah entered the room the moment Shallan was allowed visitors and Kabsal followed shortly after. But it was at least a few days before she was allowed visitors.
Cemci she/her Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) I think you might be confusing the garnet gem that was in the fake Soulcaster and the garnet sphere that she was given by Kabsal for the disastrous portait. The sphere is the one that went dun, not the gem. So technically, Jasnah would still have been able to use the garnet in the fake Soulcaster, since the gem wasn't drained of its Stormlight. It doesn't say that Shallan noticed the garnet gem on the Soulcaster being dun, just that she noticed Kabsal's sphere being dun. On a side note, the way I understand it, the gems and spheres are two separate items on Roshar. That is to say, you cannot just put a garnet sphere into a Soulcaster, because spheres are mostly glass and a tiny splitter of the denominating gem in the centre. The Soulcaster needs significantly larger gems, cut into specific shapes (in the case of the Soulcaster, oval). So essentially, it wouldn't matter how much time had passed between Shallan's soulcasting and Jasnah's soulcasting of Shallan's blood in the hospital, although the time frame would most likely have been relatively small (maybe a day or so), in order for the garnet in the fake Soulcaster to still have enough Stormlight (regardless of whether Jasnah did or did not have Stormlight on her at the time). That being said, we know for a fact that Jasnah did have Stormlight on her, because she only shortly before saving Shallan soulcast both bread and jam. Edited August 25, 2015 by Cemci
Oudeis he/him Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Nope. The gems in the soulcaster were smokestone, ruby, and diamond. The same ones in the "broken" Soulcaster Jasnah had. The only garnet in the equation was the lantern-gem Kabsal gave Shallan. I do recall wondering about this when I read it and thinking I had come to a satisfactory conclusion... but I must admit, the facts you present do point to an inconsistency. I'm definitely keeping my eye out for this sequence.
Cemci she/her Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) Ah ok. I apologise then, I had assumed that Jasnah's Soulcaster had a smokestone, garnet and diamond. But of course the thug in the alleyway wasn't turned into blood, but fire. However, in that case (correct me if I'm wrong again), the stolen Soulcaster Shallan gave up as she lost consciousness didn't have a garnet inside. Jasnah also saw the garnet sphere that Kabsal had given Shallan, but Soulcasters (using the fabrial) can't use spheres. So I would assume that Jasnah, when she returned and told Shallan that Kabsal had died, would have mentioned getting a garnet gem from somewhere (since the garnet sphere is at that point supposed to be useless to Jasnah, who is supposed to need the fabrial to soulcast). Jasnah only says that the Soulcaster saved Shallan's life, and she did call for a garnet in the hospital as she was trying to save Shallan. The time from Jasnah asking for a garnet and soulcasting Shallan's blood seems a bit short, however, and since it's not addressed, dare I say this is an inconsistency? Edited August 25, 2015 by Cemci
Oudeis he/him Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 We don't know that spheres cannot be used to Soulcast, and there's a lot of evidence to suggest that maybe they can.
Cemci she/her Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) Spheres can be used by Soulcasters with a fabrial? I must have missed this evidence. EDIT: It's mentioned when Shallan settles down to cram with her newly-bought books that Jasnah's goblet is filled with diamond broams, which are less useful for Soulcasting, so I must have missed this. I rescind everything I've said until this point. Edited August 25, 2015 by Cemci 1
Ansalem Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Spheres can be used by Soulcasters with a fabrial? I must have missed this evidence. EDIT: It's mentioned when Shallan settles down to cram with her newly-bought books that Jasnah's goblet is filled with diamond broams, which are less useful for Soulcasting, so I must have missed this. I rescind everything I've said until this point. Yeah, the value of spheres is based on their usefulness in soulcasting. Emeralds are the most valuable because they're used to soulcast food. Diamonds are the least valuable because they're used for quartz. I don't know if it's been explained precisely how it works with the fabrials. It seems like the soulcaster draws stormlight from nearby gems and spheres as needed but the only fabrial we really see used much is a fake so it's difficult to know for certain. The value of spheres might just be because they're cut from the same gemstones but soulcasters might not actually use them. My memory about the explanations is fuzzy so I'm not sure. I do know that's where sphere values come from, though.
Oudeis he/him Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Haha! I was going to say you don't have to rescind everything... then I saw this is your third post. So you're rescinding basically one thing, which happens to be the only things you've said. It's cool! Fresh start. We all get a mulligan.
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