Chromium Compounder Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 I've seen lots of posts which assume that the splintering of shards changes the way magic works on that world. I like this idea, but I don't see any evidence which can confirm or deny it. The evidence which I've seen the most to try to support it is the assertion that the Dor is the combined power of the splintered shards Devotion and Dominion. If that's true, then I would agree with it, but I've never seen anything which says that for certain. I think of the Dor as being Jesker's term for the power of creation which all magic systems and all shards in the Cosmere use. Having a single term for the source of power doesn't mean all the magic systems on Sel were changed by the splintering of the shards. We don't have enough information about the magic systems on Roshar for me to be comfortable drawing on its magic systems to know if they were affected by the splintering of its shards. We do know quite a bit about the magic systems of Scadrial, and we've seen the state of its shards change, though not in the same way. Still, if the splintering of shards changes the magic systems, then I would expect the merging of shards to likewise affect the magic systems. Perhaps magic was changed on Scadrial. Atium, Lerasium, and their alloys are nowhere to be found, and there are two metals we've never seen before. I don't think this is a change, as Atium and Lerasium and their alloys shouldn't have been listed with the other metals to begin with. Scadrial has also changed in that there are no more mistborn and no more full feruchemists. Wax says no man can have more than one allomantic power and one feruchemical power. You could argue that that change is due to the weakening of the bloodlines though. So, there are no definite changes in the magic of Scadrial. That doesn't necessarily mean that there shouldn't be from the state of the shards. It's possible that not enough time has passed yet for it to happen. After all, it's only been a few generations since the origin. It's also possible that Harmony is actively preventing the change, though why he would do that, I don't know. So, as I see it, there's no real proof either way. Has anyone seen anything they would see as proof that splintering (or other changes in the states of shards) does or does not have an effect on the magic of that world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner he/him Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 I don't want to be a buzzkill, but it's been confirmed that Splintering changes a magic. At the recent Idaho Falls book signing I asked Brandon if there was any difference between the magic that exists in Elantris and The Emperors Soul and the magic that existed before the shards on Sel were splintered. He said that "The things that they do in those books, couldn't have been done pre-splintering. They could do different things back then but not what is in the books." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Monstrosity Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) I don't want to be a buzzkill, but it's been confirmed that Splintering changes a magic. Also, honor being splintered caused some changes to spren. I'm pretty sure awakening isn't in flux, though, despite Returned cycling Divine Breaths into and out of the system. Edited June 7, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isomere Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 I don't know of a single place where wee have seen magic on a planet both before and after a splintering occurs. The best hint we have is from sel. We know that the Seons didn't exist before Odium came, so anything directly related to using Seons will be new. So are there hints about the magic system before the splintering? Yes indeed, and it seems the magic didn't change so much after all. No one knows who created the city of Elantris or where the people that originally lived there have gone. The Arelon people discovered the city already intact but completely empty, and just started living there. I believe the city was created before the coming of odium and was formed using the same Aons that currently work for Aon Dor. Since Aon Rao works the same before and after, this implies that splintering a shard doesn't need to fundamentally change the nature of the magic system on a planet. Same type of thing can be suggested for Roshar. I think the 10 Heralds existed long before the shattering of Honor, but the current magic system fits perfectly into Orders that each correspond to a Herald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chromium Compounder Posted June 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 I don't want to be a buzzkill, but it's been confirmed that Splintering changes a magic. No problem. I hadn't seen that before, and like I said, I actually like the that magic changes with the state of the world's shards. I hope I'm right that given enough time the magic systems on Scadrial will change as well. I picture the three metallic arts gradually merging into a single new art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leuthie Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 My guess: You can consider Shards to be the architects and engineers of a magic system. They are also the maintenence staff. After Splintering, the mainenence staff is gone. Over time, parts of the magic system will change due to the lack of maintenence (we know how what people think can change the reality of things, being one example of how systems can change without maintenance). The structure should stay intanct for a good while, but, eventually, even that will rot away (the Reod is a good example of the structure of a magic system beginning to rot). I think that analogy fits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Monstrosity Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 Also, I should mention that pre-shattering magic systems can persist after the shattering, so the answer is probably 'it depends'. http://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/1ced7z/iamstilla_novelist_named_brandon_sanderson_ama/c9hc6in?context=3 Are there any magic systems in the cosmere that aren't shard based? 2) This depends on definitions. The effects of Adonalsium permeate everything, and Adonalsium is also the source of the Shards. It is possible to find a magic that isn't DIRECTLY powered by a specific shard, however, though most of these would have been set up before the shattering and would be much smaller in scope than things like Allomancy and Surgebinding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROSHtafARian Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 Technically Windrunner's quote doesn't prove that Splintering changes a magic, just that there are instances where it has, such as on Sel. We don't know yet though that its always the case. There are so many differences between how magic on Scadrial works compared to the region based magic on Sel, that I don't think we can assume that had Ruin and Preservation been Splintered, Allomancy and Hemalurgy would be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millennium Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 We know that Preservation altered Allomancy and Feruchemy alike, to insert atium into the systems. It's possible that other Shards have meddled in "their" own systems as well, and that what Splintering really does is to return the system to its unaltered state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Monstrosity Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 We know that Preservation altered Allomancy and Feruchemy alike, to insert atium into the systems. Do we have a confirmation on this? Preservation meddled with how the mists snapped people, but that's not exactly the same thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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