On Gold Compounding and Aging and the Lord Ruler

[Colours]

 Spoilers for TFE, mild spoilers for AoL. 

 

The Lord Ruler routinely spent time being an old man in his little hut, presumably spinning cheerfully on his swivel chair or something. He did this to store youth, and chances are that he didn't continuously compound atium because it burns insanely fast.

 

What I was wondering was, why couldn't this just be replaced with gold compounding, for more-or-less the same effect? Gold burns much more slowly, so he could keep it up pretty much continuously. (The way Miles is discussed in AoL - and the way gold compounding seems to work, in generating more health that you can then continuously store away - it suggests that he doesn't need to spend time being sickly in order to store health.) His need for it also wouldn't increase as he got older, which would be a really big plus.

 

I'm pretty sure that being in permanent good health would be enough to make Rashek look like a young man forever. Healthy skin does not wrinkle. Healthy bones do not bow under the weight of your body. Healthy hair follicles do not produce white hair. In fact, healthy teeth probably don't even yellow.

 

Everything beyond that is down to his mannerisms and style of dress, so he could easily present himself as a twenty-something-year-old. He wouldn't die of any age-related illnesses, either.

Shouldn't that make him sufficiently immortal?

 

The best explanations I can think of are:

 

- Gold compounding does not reduce signs of aging, because wrinkles and stuff aren't considered health problems. (Which would be weird, because they're caused by organs functioning less and less well.)

- On Scadrial, "old age" is an actual literal thing that you can die of. (Which would make it a type of illness, which would mean that gold compounding should heal it from you?)

- Age is some kind of spiritweb thing (not clear on the details) that somehow inherently affects you on a plane where gold compounding can't fix the problems that it causes. (Which would need to be worked out in further detail before it can really be used to explain anything.)

- The Lord Ruler actually made a big mistake in starting to compound atium, and he kept it up because stopping compounding is an even worse idea. (Probably the most plausible explanation on this list, IMO.)

 

What do you all think?

[Kurkistan]

TLR actually spent time old voluntarily.

 

Source:

Q: Why did TLR have to spend time old?

Brandon: He didn't have to. He allowed it to happen, it was a sign of his weariness.

 

Best guess is that it wasn't to store youth at all. He did that by just burning existing atium storage, just like you've mentioned Miles doing. As evidence for this, you'll note that the TLR that Vin saw in the "Terris hut" in the first mistborn book was just in his 60s or the like, versus the virtual skeleton that TLR became when he lost his bracers. Suggesting that even in there he was still tapping a significant amount of youth.

 

---

 

I've talked on this before, but to summarize my own thoughts on the matter I'd say that TLR can't heal back from ageing for the same reason as even the most crazy of people couldn't "heal back" to having 4 arms or the like: there's some higher-level idea of what healing can accomplish that prevents it. This is buttressed by what we got from Chicago just recently:

 

Source:

Kurkistan: So, could you give us some examples of how the ideals that spren represent work in other magic systems, like we have Forging where you get plausibility, or Returned how they're beautiful or any other systems?

Brandon: Okay, one more time on that.

Kurkistan: Okay, so you know the ideals the spren are manifestations-

Brandon: Yes.

Kurkistan: How- do those have impacts on other magic systems?

Brandon: Yes, yes, in the same way the Returned- that's the exact same system at work there.

Kurkistan: Is it the same reason why the Lord Ruler _has_ to die of old age, and why you can't heal yourself into being an octopus or something?

Brandon: Um... _yes_, that is all connected in the exact same way.

Kurkistan: Okay, so it's all like these high falutin' spiritual ideals?

Brandon: Yes.

Kurkistan: And are there like, median Cognitive ideals that gradually kind of influence these, or-

Brandon: Yeah, they transcend between the three. I mean the original concept for the three realms is Platonic philosophy.

Kurkistan: So it goes up <makes absurd reverse-waterfall hand gesture>

Brandon: Yeah, it goes up and it comes back down.

 

Brandon: A lot of the Cognitive is- so like, the Cognitive has a bigger effect on how you can heal and things like that—does that make sense?

Kurkistan: Yeah.

Brandon: But the power to heal is a actually a spiritual thing.

Kurkistan: So it's like the spiritual says "I want to be like this" and the Cognitive is like "okay I'll try really hard to be like that, but I have a limit."

Brandon: Right. Right. Filtered through how you see yourself, yeah.

 

(to continue to toot my own horn, here's a thread where I discuss the implications of a more spiritual model of healing)

[Colours]

TLR actually spent time old voluntarily.

 

Source:

 

Best guess is that it wasn't to store youth at all. He did that by just burning existing atium storage, just like you've mentioned Miles doing. As evidence for this, you'll note that the TLR that Vin saw in the "Terris hut" in the first mistborn book was just in his 60s or the like, versus the virtual skeleton that TLR became when he lost his bracers. Suggesting that even in there he was still tapping a significant amount of youth.

 

 

I forgot about this part; thanks for the reminder. It makes sense for him to want to spend some time feeling a little closer to his actual age.

 

 

I've talked on this before, but to summarize my own thoughts on the matter I'd say that TLR can't heal back from ageing for the same reason as even the most crazy of people couldn't "heal back" to having 4 arms or the like: there's some higher-level idea of what healing can accomplish that prevents it. This is buttressed by what we got from Chicago just recently:

 

Source:

 

(to continue to toot my own horn, here's a thread where I discuss the implications of a more spiritual model of healing)

 

I guess the spirit thing might be a reasonable explanation, then, even if it's the least understood and thus feels pretty handwavey.

 

(I considered that it might be due to the cognitive aspect, but in my experience, most people seem to be surprised when they look in the mirror and find the first wrinkle forming at the corner of their eye or something like that, so at the very least gold compounding should make you age much slower. Couple that with how Rashek marketed himself as immortal, and even public perception of him would expect him to stay young.)

 

...Now I'm really curious about how a hypothetical feruchemical method to store mental health would work out.  It sounds scary-fun.

[Kurkistan]

(I considered that it might be due to the cognitive aspect, but in my experience, most people seem to be surprised when they look in the mirror and find the first wrinkle forming at the corner of their eye or something like that, so at the very least gold compounding should make you age much slower. Couple that with how Rashek marketed himself as immortal, and even public perception of him would expect him to stay young.)

 

That's essentially my reason for dismissing cognitive shenanigans (at least directly) as well. Thus the recourse to the spiritual.

[Kaymyth]

If I remember correctly, there is actually a Miles POV chapter in AoL where he's thinking about his compounding, and notes that it won't keep him from aging.  So for whatever reason, gold doesn't do that.  It might slow down the process a bit, but in the end, he'll get old just like everyone else.

[ecohansen]

If I remember correctly, there is actually a Miles POV chapter in AoL where he's thinking about his compounding, and notes that it won't keep him from aging.  So for whatever reason, gold doesn't do that.  It might slow down the process a bit, but in the end, he'll get old just like everyone else.

AoL p. 212: "He never felt sick, never lacked energy.  He still had to sleep, and he still grew old, but other than that, he was practically immortal."