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Splintered Shards and Cultivation


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So this post is actually two theories that Im sure have probably been mentioned but i wanted to get peoples opinions.


I noticed that on the wiki it states Cultivation is probably tied to the old magics. However I am not sure that is the case. The Old Magics are only tied to Nightwatcher which is a spren from what i recall. Spren seem to be related to Honor (in fact i think they are related to Honor in the way that Seon are related to Devotion) for two reasons.

1. Honors intent is listed in the wiki as "seeks to uphold oaths and agreements, and to make things binding". It is mentioned that spren when measured in any way are locked into that measurement, and stop changing whatever has been measured. As if they are bound to that observation (only when it is recorded as well, as in it is some sort of contract).

2. The Old magics are described as a type of contract or agreement between the Nightwatcher and the other person, which again sounds more like it has to do with Honor than Cultivation, who i assume would have an intent more focused on a net positive investiture by building or growing something, rather than an agreement like this which seems more net neutral and akin to Honor.

Splintered Shards

This again has to do with Spren, but also Seon and Skaze.

These three beings correlate to the three splintered shards Honor, Devotion and Dominion respectively. Seon clearly carry out devotions intent by being always faithful to their masters which seems to be their only goal as described by Ien in a Raoden flashback. Spren are a more diverse group that have more mysteries attached to them, but as I loosely tied them to Honor above i will assume the same here. Skaze are said to be the equivalent of Seons for Dakhor, but would obviously have to fill Dominions intent. So instead of being faithful, maybe they would respond only to the most powerful master, or they themselves try to maintain power over others in some way (although this seems unlikely as we already have a picture of the hierarchy of Dakhor, unless the Skaze somehow influence Wryn).

Now Brandon has stated that Seon arent quite splinters like the Divine Breath of the Returned, but that thinking is on the right track. So maybe the difference is the Endowment willfully creates returned, whereas the three shards above are gone (splintered) and that is the difference? Are seons the remnants of Devotion now? (likewise for Spren and Skaze?)

The problem with this seems to be that would mean that these three beings didnt exist before their shards were splintered which seems unlikely, or maybe they simply have changed since the splintering and now have sentience due to their shard being split?

Anyways I am rambling and it is late. Thoughts? Ideas?

Edit: I have changed my position a bit in a post below. Pretty much i now am only looking at honorspren as the Seon equivalent, and i also expanded on Cultivation, stating that i think her (believe she is a woman) influence is focused on Shinovar.

Edited by Romek
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Hey, Welcome to the 17th shard.

One thing that I think might be brought up is that Spren might predate the shards, in the same way that metals predated Ruin/Preservation on Scadrial, and form predated Aona/Skai on Sel. In that the worlds themselves dictated the way magic worked.

As far as your number 2, this thread, based on unpublished but available errata, might be of interest

And personally, I think you are right on the money about Seons and Divine Breaths. Devotion has been shattered, no longer has a living cognitive aspect, while Endowment remains active.

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This might sound stupid but is Honour actually splintered? I just thought Tanavast was dead but the shard was whole.

Not a stupid question at all! :) We weren't sure ourselves until not too long ago.


Was Honor Splintered?


Was Honor Splintered? ooh someone's been paying attention, very much. I would say that yes Honor was Splintered. That is a very important question to be asking, someone really knows their stuff.


Hope this helps!


I noticed that on the wiki it states Cultivation is probably tied to the old magics.


Honors intent is listed in the wiki as "seeks to uphold oaths and agreements, and to make things binding".

Keep in mind that while parts of the wiki are absolutely awesome, other bits aren't yet up to snuff, particularly some of the Shard articles. We have no definitive proof of that first fact, and the second is our best guess.

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Thanks for the welcome and the link! After reading that post and a few others I am going to revise my first post. I dont think Spren are of honor as Seons are of devotion, as Brandon stated in an interview that spren are of nature and not really aligned good and evil. This means to me that different spren probably fulfill several different shardic intents(probably a better phrase) or none at all which is what most of the spren seem to do.

However honorspren may be the Seons for honor. But they still seem different as having a Seon doesnt seem to grant powers like bonding with spren does. But there is clearly more of a connection between a Seon and its master than just the relationship, or the Seon wouldn't be affected by the Shaod when their master is.

As far as cultivation goes, i still don't see the connection with the Old Magic, so maybe it is a mysterious third shard like the thread you linked states. Maybe we havent seen cultivation's influence on a magic system yet, or maybe soulcasting is Cultivation?(although that doesn't quite seem to fit as nothing is being 'cultivated', just traded) Which brings me to a new theory which has probably been presented.

Cultivation is focused on Shinovar

This makes sense to me as the land itself lends itself to Cultivations influence. Also the Shin people praise farmers for creating and growing, whereas soldiers are looked upon poorly because they can only destroy. This sounds to mean like a social structure created around Cultivations influence.

Lastly Brandon did state the Honor was indeed splintered, but he says it like its more of a judgement call which might mean one of two things.

1. Splintering isnt a black and white occurence, there could be different types or more likely...

2. I am reading way to much into his statement.

This is also where Brandon states spren are of nature.


Edit:seems that I was beaten to linking this by about a minute. I am defeated. Also thanks for the links Windrunner, i know that the wiki is just guessing here, I was just using them as starting points for some ideas.

Edited by Romek
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