Scadrial Geography, Allomantic Mechanics, and some Preservation/Ruin questions

[Chaos he/him]

I also agree that Preservation played the long game. I often wondered why Ruin couldn't simply see the future as well as Preservation could, because if he could, he simply would've killed Vin after she released him from the Well.

I think this theory explains why different Shards are better at future sight than others: (It is elegantly simple, really)

[Kal he/him]

Interaction between weight and Steelpush/Ironpull power

Assumptions: This scene has never made sense to me. This may be because of some physics illiteracy on my part, but I have always assumed that the weight of two allomancers is independent of their power to push or pull. Let me explain. Two mistborn, both 200lbs push on the same coin suspended directly between the two. Mistborn #1 has twice the push power as #2. The power is transmitted through the coin and would be equalized between the two mistborn, pushing them both the same distance. The increased power of mistborn #1 simply meant they both flew further.

6. Is weight independent of pulling or pushing power, making this scene inconsistent with physics? (If I am wrong about this can someone explain what I am missing?)

This one has gotten a LOT of attention and opinions.

6, Whether or not mass is independent of power, this scene can be explained by stance and bracing. Elend was expecting a more powerful pushback but the inquisitor wasn't. As such he could have positioned himself better and not hardly moved in comparison to the inquisitor.

Follow-up:

12. I haven't seen anyone properly address whether mass and power act independently or not from a scientific perspective. People have either made the assumption that they are dependent (which I don't agree) or they try to explain in a way that still manages to incorporate mass with the power of the push. Maybe my brain is just being dyslexic on this?

 

I see it's been a long time since anyone posted to this thread, but in case anyone is still out there and curious about the physics of steelpushing/pulling, here's a scientific stab at it.

 

In normal physics, two objects pushing directly against each other produce equal forces in opposite directions. If both objects are of the same mass, neither will move. But this is because there is force from gravity as well. If both people were on ice skates, where the friction is far less, then both people would move, and they would move with equal acceleration. However, if one object is more massive than the other, then it requires more force to accelerate than the smaller one, hence the smaller object will move, or at least move much faster. This is the same in Allomancy. If a Coinshot pushes against a coin, the coin pushes back on the Coinshot, but he/she has so much more mass that the coin shoots off while the Coinshot remains still.

 

In the normal Allomancy of the Final Empire, the physics are similar. If two Mistborn push against the same coin between them, then they are each pushing with equal force. If they are of equal mass, then they both get pushed backward at the same acceleration (remember, they're not actually pushing on each other, they're pushing on the coin, which is pushing back with equal force due to the other Mistborn's equal mass). But when their masses are unequal, the less massive Mistborn will get pushed farther than the bigger one, as will the coin. But in Allomancy, the amount of force one can push or pull with is proportional to the amount of metal being pushed or pulled. A Mistborn can propel himself or herself much farther by pushing or pulling on a large source of metal than by using a coin. This is why Vin's horseshoe trick works so well; horseshoes have more metal than coins.

 

But in Elend's case, his Allomancy is more powerful. Therefore, the force he applies to a given piece of metal is much greater than that of any other Mistborn (or in this case, of the Inquisitor). So when the two push on the same piece of metal, rather than their forces being equal (as would be the case had Vin pushed on it, or if two non-Allomancers physically pushed against each other), the force from Elend was greater than the force from the Inquisitor. The result was the Elend stumbled (he was still pushed a little bit) and the Inquisitor was thrown.

 

I have an image that I drew to illustrate what I mean, but I'm not sure how to upload it so it can be viewed here.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Kal