Theory: Parshendi Storm form is caused by Odiumspren

[vineyarddawg]

Ok, I've already had 1 crackpot theory shot down, so I think it's time for crackpot theory #2.  

 

(I have a hard time believing no one else has come up with this theory, but I did a forum search and haven't been able to find a post about it, so I'm writing it now.)

 

To me, one of the most fascinating aspects of WoR was being introduced to Eshonai and actually being able to learn more about the Parshendi and their society. I think there's still a lot more about them we don't know, but one thing that's clear is that somehow, in the ancient past, they lost most of their knowledge on how to create most of the different forms that used to exist in their society. We also know that the newly-discovered storm form basically changed Eshonai into a completely different personality, which wasn't really the case with the other, "milder" forms that the modern-day Parshendi had been using to that point. 

 

So, my theory is this:  the spren that the Parshendi have to capture to change into storm form is Odiumspren, and once they change into that form, it's analogous to being spiked by Ruin on Scadrial. Odium can overwhelm their personality and pretty much make them do whatever he likes. Also, since Odium is not splintered like Honor, there aren't just millions of little Odiumspren floating around in the cognitive realm.  Instead, Odium "releases" (or otherwise makes the capture of an Odiumspren available) in a highstorm when he knows a Parshendi is waiting to receive it. In this manner, he doesn't lose control of his own essence, but he is also able to directly control the Parshendi, much like I'm presuming he did in the Desolations of old. 

 

I don't know that I've quite thought through all of the ramifications of this, but the point that the Parshendi are being "spiked" by Odium seemed pretty clear to me when you see how radically they change when they enter storm form. It makes me wonder if there are other beings that Odium can awaken out of a "dullform" state.  Like, for example, chasmfiends...

 

EDIT: So, the WoB's that inexorablePanda quoted below make it clear that the spren are not odiumspren, but are instead spren that have been "spiked" by Odium.  That's close enough for me to think that the effect is generally the same, though, with the exception that Odium can't directly tell the stormform parshendi what to do. Maybe they are just imbued with Odium's intent or something.

Edited January 25, 2015 by vineyarddawg

[Guest]

Here are some WoBs that you may or may not want to add to the original post.

#1

QUESTION

And does he [Odium] control the Voidbringers through the spren in the same way that the Inquisitors were controlled by Ruin?

BRANDON SANDERSON

There are definitely-- In fact what you have just seen with Eshonai shares an awful lot with what happened in Mistborn.

(source)

#2

ZAS678

Can Odium influence people the same way that Ruin can?

BRANDON SANDERSON (PARAPHRASED)

[misunderstands question as a question about kandra/koloss/parshendi] Well, you see, the kandra and the koloss have a "hole" in them that allows Ruin to come in and take over. The Parshendi naturally are protected from this, but when they expose themselves to the storms, and the spren come in, many of these spren have that kind of "hole" in them, and that’s what allows Odium to take control of them.

ZAS678

No, I'm talking about how Ruin was able to push people, place things in their minds, stuff like that. Can Odium do the same thing?

BRANDON SANDERSON (PARAPHRASED)

Well, Odium wasn't around when those people were created [Here it sounded like the mankind that's on that planet, not the specific generation], so it's a little different for him than Ruin. So if he influences people in that way, it's through the Unmade.

(source)

Good work vineyarddawg, and I love the new profile picture!

Edited January 24, 2015 by inexorablePanda

[vineyarddawg]

Thanks for the WoB's, Panda!  So I guess Brandon has already more or less explained this, but I'm pleased to see that I came pretty close on my own.  

 

So the spren are not exactly Odiumspren, but they basically have a kind of "cognitive spike" in them that Odium can use to take control of them.  And since the parshendi are bonding with the spren when they change forms, they're basically bonding with Odium.  (/shiver)

 

Oh, and this is my theory post, so I'm allowed to hijack it and swerve off in another direction.    Based on what I've seen, I think Adonalsium created the humans on Roshar. Either that, or the Rosharian humans are scions of the original humans on Yolen (of which Adonalsium's holder was also a member, according to this theory).  

[gjustice99 she/her]

This is definitely not a crackpot theory and is something I have considered myself. I will add this to espoused theories when I get to my laptop. The WOB is very suggestive to the confirmation of this theory.

[Shlee]

I think you didn't find much because a lot of it is just assumed by many people, but that's just my take on it.

 

Some things to address: 

To me, one of the most fascinating aspects of WoR was being introduced to Eshonai and actually being able to learn more about the Parshendi and their society. I think there's still a lot more about them we don't know, but one thing that's clear is that somehow, in the ancient past, they lost most of their knowledge on how to create most of the different forms that used to exist in their society. We also know that the newly-discovered storm form basically changed Eshonai into a completely different personality, which wasn't really the case with the other, "milder" forms that the modern-day Parshendi had been using to that point.

Did it change her into a completely different personality or force her to act differently, while her old self is still inside.....all her references to the "screaming voice" she hears and the fact that she seems to set up Thude to escape with the people who don't want to change into stormform and she's not having her closest friends take on stormform, make me think that her original personality is still there, exactly like Marsh's was. She just has to fight subtly.

 

So, my theory is this:  the spren that the Parshendi have to capture to change into storm form is Odiumspren, and once they change into that form, it's analogous to being spiked by Ruin on Scadrial. Odium can overwhelm their personality and pretty much make them do whatever he likes.

We know from multiple references in WoR that they are stormspren and we are also told that stormspren are a type of Voidspren.  Syl, Pattern, and the Listeners all call them by this name. Syl calls them "dangerous spren"  Pattern calls them "Voidspren"   The WoB makes it pretty clear that the analogy to being spiked is spot-on.
 

Also, since Odium is not splintered like Honor, there aren't just millions of little Odiumspren floating around in the cognitive realm.  Instead, Odium "releases" (or otherwise makes the capture of an Odiumspren available) in a highstorm when he knows a Parshendi is waiting to receive it. In this manner, he doesn't lose control of his own essence, but he is also able to directly control the Parshendi, much like I'm presuming he did in the Desolations of old.

I agree that there are not Odiumspren floating around in the cognitive realm most of the time, because there are multiple indications that "spren of him" coming/showing up are what prompted the "regular" spren to start seeking people out again. Pattern and Syl both refer to this. However, I disagree that Odium is "releasing" spren, into highstorms or otherwise. We know from Dalinar's visions that the Unmade (specifically Sja-Anat) corrupt spren. I think this "corruption" is the equivalent to "spiking" and is what makes the hole which allows Odium to influence the spren, and through them, the Parshendi. The Everstorm, by the descriptions we've been given, appears to have a lot of stormspren and possibly other Voidspren embedded in it, which I think are going to "bond" to any unprotected Parshendi, and then yes, mind control. I think the main difference is that in Desolations of old, the Parshendi were always bonded to corrupted spren and under the eyes of Odium/the Unmade, hence their gods, so the Everstorm wasn't needed to "force bond" them like it will be this time around. But yes, I think he's corrupting "normal" spren, as opposed to splitting off bits of his own power. Plus, he's on Braize. I'd think any bits of himself he splintered off would also be on Braize.

 

Furthermore, I think that as part of the Oathpact (That we have WoB is still functioning), he can only start making moves on Roshar just before a desolation, commonly believed to begin when the Heralds (in this case, only poor Taln) leave Damnation, which is why we are just now starting to see them. (Which begs the question of where Taln has been during the past few years that spren have started trying to bond people again......but that's an issue for a separate discussion) 

 

It makes me wonder if there are other beings that Odium can awaken out of a "dullform" state.  Like, for example, chasmfiends...

I'd say if one of the unmade corrupted those spren that are around greatshells, there's some high potential there. Scary thought, that. Plus the vision in which a red-eyed, corrupted spren animates rock into a thunderclast, and that's not even a "dullform state" creature, it's just plain old rock.

 

with the exception that Odium can't directly tell the stormform parshendi what to do. Maybe they are just imbued with Odium's intent or something.

Taking the WoB that the Unmade can influence people and this quote about Eshonai in WoR - "Buried within those new rhythms, the names of which she intuited somehow, she could almost hear voices speaking to her. Advising her. If her people had received such guidance over the centuries, they surely would not have fallen so far."  

I think this is the Listeners' Gods "speaking", presumed by many to be the Unmade, and described by Rlain as “They are the souls of those ancient. Those who gave of themselves to destroy.” 

 

TL;DR - So in summary: Odium controls Unmade. Unmade control (or possibly only influence) Parshendi through bond with "corrupted" spren (Voidspren), which were not themselves originally of Odium. Extrapolate to include people, animals, and inanimate objects bonded or associated with corrupted spren of different types. Desolation.

 

As to your post hijack, too many things about humans and the animals we see closely associated with them do not fit the ecology of Roshar. I'd tend towards scions of Yolen more than native-to-Roshar, created by Adonalsium or otherwise.

[vineyarddawg]

Great points, Shlee!  I'm going through a re-read of WoK and then WoR right now, but sort of on the side as I read a couple of other books, so it's going slowly. But on my first read-through I obviously didn't have all these things in mind, so I was hoping to find examples like the ones you cited that I missed in the first go-round. 

 

I'd think the Unmade would be more like Marsh in this example if Marsh had been an inquisitor for centuries (as the Unmade seem to be), because they're basically directly "spiked" by Odium.  (Or, maybe they're more like kandra.  It's not really a perfect analogy either way, I guess.) They initially could probably have rebelled subtly, as Marsh did, but by now they've surely lost all of their own independent will.  Also, Odium is far more powerful than Ruin was, because Odium has no power with which he's "in check" like Ruin was with Preservation.  

I don't know that there's a good analogy from the Scadrial system to what stormform is, since the parshendi are bonded with a Odium-corrupted spren. I think it's clear Eshonai has her own personality still inside and can influence what she does to some extent, but the Odium-enhanced power of the corrupted spren is just too much for her to handle, especially without any training or even forewarning as to what to expect.

 

It'll be interesting to see if Brandon gives is any more insight into this situation in SA3.