Kaladins gonna fall in love with veil(spoilers)

[Kyats Rani she/her]

Thanks That was the "Adolin ends up in Purelake" story plot. I have others but this one has the best potential, I think. The other ones are not as fulfilling, some are quite boring, such as the "Adolin meets up with the merchants". Yawns. The "Adolin in Azir" is another interesting one, but least plausible as it gives Lift a bigger role. "Adolin the conqueror" is not bad either.

 

My favourite is propably "Adolin in Azir" as I really like Lift, so the opportunity for the two of them to meet would be nice. Of course there would have to be more to this - maybe Lift did something again and Darkness tries to kill her one more, or maybe Adolin convinces Azish to fully support Dalinar against the Desolation, or maybe Adolin would have something to do with the Nightwatcher (with Lift's influence), maybe Voidbringers are unstoppable in Azir and Adolin convinces Lift to help him get people to resist them somehow (he doesn't have his shards but he's still talented in leading battles), or maybe all of those at once...

 

 

...

 

Wow, I totally missed the fact that Mr. T started a plague in Purelake My question was actually why would Taravangian be in the Purelake not Adolin, but now I realized that I missed that one fact... How do I read those books?

 

Interesting plot for sure, my only problem is that I'd rather see Adolin having a happy ending I'm quite hopeless at that I'm much more for the idea of Adolin, when he's healthy, starting to get suspicious of the Diagram and what he is being told (his intuition kicking in) and turning his back on Mr.T... I mean, he's not cunning enough to try to infiltrate them so he would propably simply turn his back at this as soon as he realizes what they're trying to do. Which would lead to more problems as they'd decide to get rid of him since he refuses to be useful to them. Adolin is in a very big trouble, but he's saved by Moash and manages to escape (prefarably towards the obsidian keep...).

 

This above and most of my other ideas concerning Moash goes down to: "I think he will try to redeem himself somehow". Of course not for trying to kill Elhokar. But I think that Moash feels really bad for his betrayal of Kaladin, at least that's how I understood his little PoV at the end of WoR - he's not happy with whatever he's unconsciously gotten himself into and he feels guilty for the way he turned against Kal. That's why I think he will try to redeem himself in the end. In the forementioned scenario propably with last words to Adolin along the lines of "Tell Kaladin I'm sorry". But your idea of Moash being the one who points out the truth to Adolin is also very nice for my line of thought I guess if he survives he would make a good squire for Adolin too, but in my mind he does something good to try to redeem himself and ends up dead or in another bad way

 

As for Danlan - her role as being the one to deceive and manipulate Adolin is a good one, but I simply don't get the feeling that her story with Adolin wasn't finished. We don't know what she said to annoy him so much but I don't perceive it as very important - I think it was propably some complaining on Dalinar or pointing out his insanity, which we know is an easy way to make Adolin angry.

[Flinch]

Kaladin and Shallan have already alluded to having thoughts of the other, (and we all know those thoughts were not disapproving of the other). So it is not out of the realm of possibility for a love triangle to ensue. Now will Veil be involved? I doubt Shallan is naive enough to step into the mess that would create. However, I can see her weaving a new persona, to explore a relationship with Kaladin. Besides, Adolin is going to be preoccupied with feelings of guilt and remorse, (he is Dalinar's son) for Sadeas, so I see some spare time for Brightness Radiant Davar to do some serious soul searching on her "own" .

[Guest]

My favourite is propably "Adolin in Azir" as I really like Lift, so the opportunity for the two of them to meet would be nice. Of course there would have to be more to this - maybe Lift did something again and Darkness tries to kill her one more, or maybe Adolin convinces Azish to fully support Dalinar against the Desolation, or maybe Adolin would have something to do with the Nightwatcher (with Lift's influence), maybe Voidbringers are unstoppable in Azir and Adolin convinces Lift to help him get people to resist them somehow (he doesn't have his shards but he's still talented in leading battles), or maybe all of those at once...

 

My "Adolin in Azir" story plot is very very different....... Upon being put into exile, Adolin is boarded into a boat to an unknown destination, far away from Alethkar. He ends up in Azir, broken and heart in shambles. He's penniless and certainly has never been on his own this way. He soon goes hungry, starving literally when he sees someone being molested. The old instinct kick in and he promptly defends her/him.

 

A young girl watches from the shadow the miserable golden haired stranger taking down two strong men on his own with no other weapon then a stick. She is amazed at his skill, this man knows how to fight.

 

Early in the night, he is being caught up by the same guys he's beaten down before. There's more of them. Adolin gets beaten down for involving himself earlier. He is weaponless and weak, there's too many of them and he failed to defend himself. He being left for dead in a ditch.

 

A young girl watches from afar and goes to the stranger. She heals him. She is Lift. He is Adolin, a prince in exile, but he does not say so. He calls himself Aredor, a lighteye from one the lowest dahn.

 

They decide to stick together. Adolin ever is the big brother and teaches Lift how to fight. He's quick to learn about her ability, about her Radianthood. She is astonished to hear there are others, but does not dare ask him how he knows this. On her side, Lift teaches Adolin how to live in the streets, meaning the BAAB of thievery Adolin does not like the idea of stealing, but upon seeing how badly the poor people are being treated by the upper class, he gets fed up. He agrees to the stealing, but only to the rich and not to enriched themselves. No. Most of it has to go to the poorer of people.

 

Windle really really likes Adolin.

 

Soon, Adolin ends up with a small horde of followers. He's turned into Robin Hood, a known thief, whose head has a price on it, but the people just love him as he is such a nice person: loving and caring. The street kids adore him as he never says no to tell them a story. Kids love the stories, especially the one about the foreign prince who's hair were the wrong color and the pretty princess who's hair were the color of the fire and their adventures in a shattered land. A story of love, hate and betrayal featuring horrific monsters, epic fights, unfair duels, assassins, a flying man and a hidden city. And it ends bad as the prince is cast away, away from his pretty princess and not knowing if he'll ever see her again. Adolin does not know why he makes up this specific story, but the kids, they LOVE it and being kids, they always ask for more. Some of the old folks shake their head and wonders where this all comes from and more importantly, who is this young stranger?

 

Lift sometimes ask Adolin if he is the prince from the story. To this he answers: "Do I look like a Prince to you?".

 

One day, though, Dalinar's emissary arrives in Azir. Adolin watches from afar. He gets restless. His crew wants to steel the Kohlins as they look rich....

 

Now this is the fuzzy part of the story.... Darkness gets involved and Adolin reveals himself or he is discovered, but Lift finds out he really is a prince.

 

Insert further development involving the Blade, which turns out being an Edgedancer blade and Windle really helps unlocking it.

 

Lift joins the main crew. She is secretly crushing on Adolin and keep telling that, one day, she'll marry him as the red haired princess does not deserve him He treats her like the little sister he never had and soon turns into her swordsmaster. Every now and then, she asks if he truly is a prince.... but deep down she knows he'll always be the family she never had. When he becomes another Edgedancer, she teaches him how to be awesome and together, they grow into the most deadly duo of all Roshar.

 

They get very close, but brother/sister like, not anything else.

 

 

Interesting plot for sure, my only problem is that I'd rather see Adolin having a happy ending I'm quite hopeless at that I'm much more for the idea of Adolin, when he's healthy, starting to get suspicious of the Diagram and what he is being told (his intuition kicking in) and turning his back on Mr.T... I mean, he's not cunning enough to try to infiltrate them so he would propably simply turn his back at this as soon as he realizes what they're trying to do. Which would lead to more problems as they'd decide to get rid of him since he refuses to be useful to them. Adolin is in a very big trouble, but he's saved by Moash and manages to escape (prefarably towards the obsidian keep...).

 

Adolin almost get a happy ending in my plotting... Except the ones where he dies but I hate those

 

I do have one where he stupidly hike across the entire Purelake in search of Feverstone Keep.... Distressed, he clings to this vision of his father and sets himself to find it. Why? He does not know, but it feels right. The keep ends up being tied to the Dustbrigner's order, somehow. Escaping there could be fun...

 

In many "Adolin in exile" plots, Adolin is not alone: Skar and Drehy go with him as the bridgemen still think it is their duty to protect him, exile or not. These two volunteers and secretly join him. These plots tend to merge towards the "Adolin the conqueror" story plots where he ends up winning lands, bringing banners too him by heroically fighting the Voidbringners and winning the common people over as the only lighteye to ever give a damnation about them. He gets known as The Whitespine as he fights like one and when he meets Dalinar, he has a whole army following him. In these story, he tends to screw over Alethkar and its former rules and establishes his own kingdom, often over previously Alethi lands . He's reckless and caring, but he lives a very dangerous life. He unites them, but not by blood, by drawing them to him.

 

 

I guess if he survives he would make a good squire for Adolin too, but in my mind he does something good to try to redeem himself and ends up dead or in another bad way

I keep having this idea Moash was not suited to be a Windrunner's squire and he would fit better with the Dustbringers... Besides, Adolin will need squires, if he ever becomes a Radiant.

 

 

As for Danlan - her role as being the one to deceive and manipulate Adolin is a good one, but I simply don't get the feeling that her story with Adolin wasn't finished. We don't know what she said to annoy him so much but I don't perceive it as very important - I think it was propably some complaining on Dalinar or pointing out his insanity, which we know is an easy way to make Adolin angry.

 

We do not know why they broke up and there was a lot of theorizing concerning Danlan before WoK. Besides, I think bringing her back into the mix would be interesting, just to confused Adolin some more.

 

In some version of the story, he kills her or she dies

[Kyats Rani she/her]

My "Adolin in Azir" story plot is very very different....... Upon being put into exile, Adolin is boarded into a boat to an unknown destination, far away from Alethkar. He ends up in Azir, broken and heart in shambles. He's penniless and certainly has never been on his own this way. He soon goes hungry, starving literally when he sees someone being molested. The old instinct kick in and he promptly defends her/him.

 

A young girl watches from the shadow the miserable golden haired stranger taking down two strong men on his own with no other weapon then a stick. She is amazed at his skill, this man knows how to fight.

 

Early in the night, he is being caught up by the same guys he's beaten down before. There's more of them. Adolin gets beaten down for involving himself earlier. He is weaponless and weak, there's too many of them and he failed to defend himself. He being left for dead in a ditch.

 

A young girl watches from afar and goes to the stranger. She heals him. She is Lift. He is Adolin, a prince in exile, but he does not say so. He calls himself Aredor, a lighteye from one the lowest dahn.

 

They decide to stick together. Adolin ever is the big brother and teaches Lift how to fight. He's quick to learn about her ability, about her Radianthood. She is astonished to hear there are others, but does not dare ask him how he knows this. On her side, Lift teaches Adolin how to live in the streets, meaning the BAAB of thievery Adolin does not like the idea of stealing, but upon seeing how badly the poor people are being treated by the upper class, he gets fed up. He agrees to the stealing, but only to the rich and not to enriched themselves. No. Most of it has to go to the poorer of people.

 

Windle really really likes Adolin.

 

Soon, Adolin ends up with a small horde of followers. He's turned into Robin Hood, a known thief, whose head has a price on it, but the people just love him as he is such a nice person: loving and caring. The street kids adore him as he never says no to tell them a story. Kids love the stories, especially the one about the foreign prince who's hair were the wrong color and the pretty princess who's hair were the color of the fire and their adventures in a shattered land. A story of love, hate and betrayal featuring horrific monsters, epic fights, unfair duels, assassins, a flying man and a hidden city. And it ends bad as the prince is cast away, away from his pretty princess and not knowing if he'll ever see her again. Adolin does not know why he makes up this specific story, but the kids, they LOVE it and being kids, they always ask for more. Some of the old folks shake their head and wonders where this all comes from and more importantly, who is this young stranger?

 

Lift sometimes ask Adolin if he is the prince from the story. To this he answers: "Do I look like a Prince to you?".

 

One day, though, Dalinar's emissary arrives in Azir. Adolin watches from afar. He gets restless. His crew wants to steel the Kohlins as they look rich....

 

Now this is the fuzzy part of the story.... Darkness gets involved and Adolin reveals himself or he is discovered, but Lift finds out he really is a prince.

 

Insert further development involving the Blade, which turns out being an Edgedancer blade and Windle really helps unlocking it.

 

Lift joins the main crew. She is secretly crushing on Adolin and keep telling that, one day, she'll marry him as the red haired princess does not deserve him He treats her like the little sister he never had and soon turns into her swordsmaster. Every now and then, she asks if he truly is a prince.... but deep down she knows he'll always be the family she never had. When he becomes another Edgedancer, she teaches him how to be awesome and together, they grow into the most deadly duo of all Roshar.

 

They get very close, but brother/sister like, not anything else.

 

Brilliant I always liked your ideas, especially because they're usually much more precise then mine I only know what I'd like to see while you create whole plots... This one is very good, Adolin totally could become a Robin Hood. And Lift would think he's awesome (but of course not nearly as awesome as she is)

 

 

I do have one where he stupidly hike across the entire Purelake in search of Feverstone Keep.... Distressed, he clings to this vision of his father and sets himself to find it. Why? He does not know, but it feels right. The keep ends up being tied to the Dustbrigner's order, somehow. Escaping there could be fun...

 

In many "Adolin in exile" plots, Adolin is not alone: Skar and Drehy go with him as the bridgemen still think it is their duty to protect him, exile or not. These two volunteers and secretly join him. These plots tend to merge towards the "Adolin the conqueror" story plots where he ends up winning lands, bringing banners too him by heroically fighting the Voidbringners and winning the common people over as the only lighteye to ever give a damnation about them. He gets known as The Whitespine as he fights like one and when he meets Dalinar, he has a whole army following him. In these story, he tends to screw over Alethkar and its former rules and establishes his own kingdom, often over previously Alethi lands . He's reckless and caring, but he lives a very dangerous life. He unites them, but not by blood, by drawing them to him.

 

Feverstone Keep was the red one and we don't know where it was, in the Purelake there was a black one...

 

Anyway, I don't really see your idea of "Adolin the conqueror"... The other ones seem to fit better with his character... I mean, yes he could propably do something like this but I just don't see him going this way. Especially since if he were to be exiled he would propably also lose his Shards (given to Ialai) and without them he couldn't possibly lead armies against Voidbringers, let's admit it, he wouldn't survive too long

 

 

I keep having this idea Moash was not suited to be a Windrunner's squire and he would fit better with the Dustbringers... Besides, Adolin will need squires, if he ever becomes a Radiant.

 

I agree. The rest of the Bridge 4 will definitely end up being Kal's squires (and I think even Rlain will ), some of them already are. But Moash... If he could possibly become somebody's squire it would have to be a Dustbringer. He would simply never fit to any other...

 

 

We do not know why they broke up and there was a lot of theorizing concerning Danlan before WoK. Besides, I think bringing her back into the mix would be interesting, just to confused Adolin some more.

 

In some version of the story, he kills her or she dies

 

Yes, we don't know exactly why they broke up (we only have a vague reason - Adolin didn't like what she was saying to her friends, propably about the Kholins, because otherwise why would Adolin care?). It just doesn't seem interesting to me I don't know what Kaladin is going to do about Moash and the patriots (especially since we don't know when he will be back in Urithiru) but I think he will try to tell Dalinar that one of his scribes is a traitor (assuming she didn't run away like Graves, but I think she stayed to keep spying). When confronted about this Danlan would promptly inform the Highprince about Moash and Kaladin's involvement in the situation, but Kal can prove that in the end he did not help the patriots and protected Elhokar. That will drive a wedge between Dalinar and Kaladin as Dalinar won't be happy that Kal didn't tell him about this, but I don't think he would make a big fuss out of this - after all no permanent harm was done. But ever since he will be less trusting towards Kal, wondering what else he can be hiding to protect his men

 

Going back to Adolin in Purelake (or in fact, wherever in exile), I think it would be hilarious if he ran into the 17th shard. They could ask him about Hoid and may even try to manipulate him to find out that Hoid=Wit, while poor Adolin wouldn't even be aware that he revealed something that should stay secret By manipulate I mean that they would act friendly, invite him to his camp or something and steer the conversation in a way to find out if Adolin knows anything about a certain man...

[Guest]

Brilliant I always liked your ideas, especially because they're usually much more precise then mine I only know what I'd like to see while you create whole plots... This one is very good, Adolin totally could become a Robin Hood. And Lift would think he's awesome (but of course not nearly as awesome as she is)

 

I adore the Adolin turns into Robin Hood story. It fits him so well. He's broken, the story he made up about his life for the kids shows just how much, but at the same time, he still is badass Adolin stealing from his former class with a smirk on his face. I think Adolin and Lift would get along quite well.

 

 

Feverstone Keep was the red one and we don't know where it was, in the Purelake there was a black one...

 

Anyway, I don't really see your idea of "Adolin the conqueror"... The other ones seem to fit better with his character... I mean, yes he could propably do something like this but I just don't see him going this way. Especially since if he were to be exiled he would propably also lose his Shards (given to Ialai) and without them he couldn't possibly lead armies against Voidbringers, let's admit it, he wouldn't survive too long

 

Oh... Well he goes hiking across the Purelake and find some old thing. Not a very good one as I usually run out of ideas rather quickly with this one.

 

Adolin the conqueror is the one where he follows into Dalinar's footsteps. He does not really plan for it, but one thing brings to another. The more he does what feels right, the more followers he gathers. Alethkar was basically left to itself: everyone important is in Urithiru, so when one pops back, they rally. It's a fun one. He turns into a swordsmaster, teaching anyone willing to learn and developing new fighting techniques to destroy the Voidbringers. They may not have shards, but they are inventive.

 

 

Yes, we don't know exactly why they broke up (we only have a vague reason - Adolin didn't like what she was saying to her friends, propably about the Kholins, because otherwise why would Adolin care?). It just doesn't seem interesting to me I don't know what Kaladin is going to do about Moash and the patriots (especially since we don't know when he will be back in Urithiru) but I think he will try to tell Dalinar that one of his scribes is a traitor (assuming she didn't run away like Graves, but I think she stayed to keep spying). When confronted about this Danlan would promptly inform the Highprince about Moash and Kaladin's involvement in the situation, but Kal can prove that in the end he did not help the patriots and protected Elhokar. That will drive a wedge between Dalinar and Kaladin as Dalinar won't be happy that Kal didn't tell him about this, but I don't think he would make a big fuss out of this - after all no permanent harm was done. But ever since he will be less trusting towards Kal, wondering what else he can be hiding to protect his men

 

Interesting. I have always assumed Danlan left with the others. I sometimes like to use her to make a reverse love triangle between her, Adolin and Shallan.

 

I like your take on how Dalinar will find out about Kal's involvement in the plot to murder Elhokar.

[Kyats Rani she/her]

I adore the Adolin turns into Robin Hood story. It fits him so well. He's broken, the story he made up about his life for the kids shows just how much, but at the same time, he still is badass Adolin stealing from his former class with a smirk on his face. I think Adolin and Lift would get along quite well.

 

They would team up and be completely awesome together

 

 

Oh... Well he goes hiking across the Purelake and find some old thing. Not a very good one as I usually run out of ideas rather quickly with this one.

 

Adolin the conqueror is the one where he follows into Dalinar's footsteps. He does not really plan for it, but one thing brings to another. The more he does what feels right, the more followers he gathers. Alethkar was basically left to itself: everyone important is in Urithiru, so when one pops back, they rally. It's a fun one. He turns into a swordsmaster, teaching anyone willing to learn and developing new fighting techniques to destroy the Voidbringers. They may not have shards, but they are inventive.

 

For the Purelake - do you think that 17th Shard are still somewhere around those parts looking for Hoid? I wonder if Adolin's intuition would see something strange in worldhoppers - I don't remember how it was with Wit...

 

Adolin as the new Blackthorn? It has potential but it's still not something I'd really like to see But I wonder what Voidbringer-fighting techniques they could come up with. I mean, I see Adolin more like a soldier, general who leads to fight and devises good field tactics. I can't imagine him as someone who can come up with something to let regular soldiers deal with Voidbringers - that's something for scholars like Navani. He may present good strategy to assault them, but I don't think it would be enough.

 

 

Interesting. I have always assumed Danlan left with the others. I sometimes like to use her to make a reverse love triangle between her, Adolin and Shallan.

 

I like your take on how Dalinar will find out about Kal's involvement in the plot to murder Elhokar.

 

I don't know, it wasn't said anywhere that she left and I assumed that she stayed...  Even Diagram needs spies I think As for the love triangle between Danlan, Adolin and Shallan - there could be something like you said somewhere above that after Adolin is pushed back by Shallan he seeks comfort in someone else, that someone being Danlan. And yet I still don't like the thought of love triangles in SA

 

And Kaladin's brief involvement with the patriots must come up somewhere again. It must have some consequences. I mean, how Kaladin could hide the fact that one of his men, a Shardbearer at that, suddenly disappeared? I think Dalinar should realize that Kaladin is faithful to his men first and foremost, not to him. I don't want to make a big wedge between them but I believe Dalinar's trust to be too blind. Yes, they should still trust each other, but they should also be realistic.

[Guest]

For the Purelake - do you think that 17th Shard are still somewhere around those parts looking for Hoid? I wonder if Adolin's intuition would see something strange in worldhoppers - I don't remember how it was with Wit...

 

I am not really sure there is a 17th shard... As for Adolin's intuition, he never say anything special about Wit. It seems to quick in mostly to warn him something is wrong and he gets the impulse to fix it, like the time he sat in prison with Kal. It felt wrong to him that Kaladin would be send to prison for saving his life. He never said anything special about Zahel, so it is hard to tell if he would sense a worldhopper.

 

 

Adolin as the new Blackthorn? It has potential but it's still not something I'd really like to see But I wonder what Voidbringer-fighting techniques they could come up with. I mean, I see Adolin more like a soldier, general who leads to fight and devises good field tactics. I can't imagine him as someone who can come up with something to let regular soldiers deal with Voidbringers - that's something for scholars like Navani. He may present good strategy to assault them, but I don't think it would be enough.

 

It has been hinted Adolin may be turning into another Blackthorn... Sadeas sure thought he was, but he would turn out exactly like Dalinar as he is more caring. In these, he rallies people to him, the leftovers all across Alethkar and quickly becomes their leading figure. He's a badass on the battle field, he's a strong tactician and he genuinely seems to care about the people's welfare, but more importantly, he sent to the sewer most of Alethkar laws. They follow him because he cares and they love him for it. He gets very very popular.

 

He's got a team in those... He is not alone. He is not the one figuring everything.

 

In these, he does not come up broken nor does he become a Radiant. He just becomes a leading figure in a crumbling apart world and ends up at the head of Alethkar, not by heredity, but by popular demand. He more or less steals Alethkar from Elhokar and Dalinar... Lot's of conflict, but not a lot of Adolin's angst.

 

Not my favorite, but it could go this way.

 

 

I don't know, it wasn't said anywhere that she left and I assumed that she stayed...  Even Diagram needs spies I think As for the love triangle between Danlan, Adolin and Shallan - there could be something like you said somewhere above that after Adolin is pushed back by Shallan he seeks comfort in someone else, that someone being Danlan. And yet I still don't like the thought of love triangles in SA

 

It is not said she stayed either, so I guess it could go both ways... I hate love triangles, but if we are to get one, then I thought perhaps this one would be used instead of the too predictable one between Kaladin/Shallan/Adolin.

 

 

And Kaladin's brief involvement with the patriots must come up somewhere again. It must have some consequences. I mean, how Kaladin could hide the fact that one of his men, a Shardbearer at that, suddenly disappeared? I think Dalinar should realize that Kaladin is faithful to his men first and foremost, not to him. I don't want to make a big wedge between them but I believe Dalinar's trust to be too blind. Yes, they should still trust each other, but they should also be realistic.

 

I agree, but I have not give it much thoughts... Would Dalinar blindly forgive Kaladin or would he start seeing his guardsman in a new light? It is true Kaladin's main preoccupation is his men's safety. If push comes to shove and Kaladin has to chose between his men and the Kohlins, he'll chose his men. This is problematic. Kaladin's loyalties are split and I honestly don't know how he can reconcile himself with them providing the interests of his proteges goes against the interest of his charges.

 

Dalinar would most probably react very very badly upon hearing Kaladin caused an attempt against the king to nearly succeed. I can see Dalinar being completely disillusioned as he sees himself being betrayed by his two most trusted young men: his son and Kaladin. I do not know where the plot may go though as I tend to see Kaladin shining and not sinking...

[Moogle]

Here's my question.  Seeing as how Shallan makes her disguises and Lightweavings utilizing Stormlight, would these deceive another Radiant?  I mean, could Kaladin "inhale" her disguise?  As far as I know, we have not seen her use her Lightweaving in another Radiant's presence have we?  She didn't know how to when she was with Jasnah, right?

 

It's unlikely Kaladin could steal the Stormlight from another Radiant's Surgebindings. You can't use another person's metalminds, after all, and that sort of "countering" of other Surgebinder's abilities doesn't seem like the sort of thing Brandon would write in.

[Kyats Rani she/her]

I am not really sure there is a 17th shard... As for Adolin's intuition, he never say anything special about Wit. It seems to quick in mostly to warn him something is wrong and he gets the impulse to fix it, like the time he sat in prison with Kal. It felt wrong to him that Kaladin would be send to prison for saving his life. He never said anything special about Zahel, so it is hard to tell if he would sense a worldhopper.

 

17th shard as in those three that were looking for Hoid back in WoK, the organisation...

 

Propably... Well, I only recall that Adolin seemed to be very fond of Wit in WoK and he even tried to convince Dalinar to him... But that could be an effect of some of Hoid's abilities or simply the fact that Adolin found him to be a nice person regardless of any instincts or magical interference

I guess maybe he would sense a worldhopper with bad intentions - he would know that this one is going to be trouble.

 

 

It has been hinted Adolin may be turning into another Blackthorn... Sadeas sure thought he was, but he would turn out exactly like Dalinar as he is more caring. In these, he rallies people to him, the leftovers all across Alethkar and quickly becomes their leading figure. He's a badass on the battle field, he's a strong tactician and he genuinely seems to care about the people's welfare, but more importantly, he sent to the sewer most of Alethkar laws. They follow him because he cares and they love him for it. He gets very very popular.

 

He's got a team in those... He is not alone. He is not the one figuring everything.

 

In these, he does not come up broken nor does he become a Radiant. He just becomes a leading figure in a crumbling apart world and ends up at the head of Alethkar, not by heredity, but by popular demand. He more or less steals Alethkar from Elhokar and Dalinar... Lot's of conflict, but not a lot of Adolin's angst.

 

Not my favorite, but it could go this way.

 

I guess it could go this way, it wouldn't be bad in fact. I simply like some other possibilities more  

 

That may be because I'm currently reading Mistborn, but this version of Adolin reminds me a bit of how Kelsier was perceived by people :ph34r: Which is good in my opinion because I like Kelsier

 

 

It is not said she stayed either, so I guess it could go both ways... I hate love triangles, but if we are to get one, then I thought perhaps this one would be used instead of the too predictable one between Kaladin/Shallan/Adolin.

 

She apparently wasn't important enough to let us know her whereabouts And yes, Shallan/Adolin/Danlan would be less annoying than Kaladin/Shallan/Adolin (especially since I cannot imagine Kaladin and Shallan together... under any circumstances ).

 

 

I agree, but I have not give it much thoughts... Would Dalinar blindly forgive Kaladin or would he start seeing his guardsman in a new light? It is true Kaladin's main preoccupation is his men's safety. If push comes to shove and Kaladin has to chose between his men and the Kohlins, he'll chose his men. This is problematic. Kaladin's loyalties are split and I honestly don't know how he can reconcile himself with them providing the interests of his proteges goes against the interest of his charges.

 

Dalinar would most probably react very very badly upon hearing Kaladin caused an attempt against the king to nearly succeed. I can see Dalinar being completely disillusioned as he sees himself being betrayed by his two most trusted young men: his son and Kaladin. I do not know where the plot may go though as I tend to see Kaladin shining and not sinking...

 

Again, I wouldn't want the situation between Dalinar and Kaladin to from extreme to extreme (too trusting - not trusting at all). I just want Dalinar to be more realistic. If he waved his hand, said "well, nothing happened" and kept blindly trusting Kaladin it would be awful. He must get a bit disillusioned. The truth is that Kaladin doesn't want any harm to befall the Kholins and is loyal to them, but first and foremost he's loyal to his men (personally I like that very much about him). So there's no danger until the good of Kholin family would come at the cost of the good of Bridge 4 - in this situation it's obvious Kaladin would choose Bridge 4. But in every other situation, when those two do not contradict each other, Kaladin can be trusted to look after the good of the Kholins.

 

I also can see Dalinar feeling betrayed, especially if he found out about Adolin's and Kaladin's crimes around the same time. He would be willing to stop trusting Kaladin completely, but eventually he will understand that it's foolish. After all, deep down Dalinar also cares first about those he loves and only then about the kingdom (that's why punishing Adolin would be very hard to him). He will be more wary, but he will still trust Kaladin - simply not so blindly as before. Generally I also see Kaladin shining not sinking (and Adolin sinking first and then shining), but I think that even if there's a rift created between Kal and Dalinar, he will still have a chance to shine. Dalinar started with trusting Kaladin blindly, others weren't very sure. Now, even if Dalinar's trust wavers, others will start warming up to Kaladin, especially after his success in Kholinar.

 

 

It's unlikely Kaladin could steal the Stormlight from another Radiant's Surgebindings. You can't use another person's metalminds, after all, and that sort of "countering" of other Surgebinder's abilities doesn't seem like the sort of thing Brandon would write in.

 

True. I think he may possibly be able to "catch" the Stormlight that leaks from someone else (take it before it evaporates), but not steal it directly form another Surgebinder.

 

On the other hand, you used metalminds as an example. Well, there's also a case in Warbreaker that upon reaching a certain Heightening (8th or 9th, I don't remember) one can hijack objects awakened by someone else. So stealing Stormlight may be possible, but very hard to do...

[Moogle]

True. I think he may possibly be able to "catch" the Stormlight that leaks from someone else (take it before it evaporates), but not steal it directly form another Surgebinder.

 

On the other hand, you used metalminds as an example. Well, there's also a case in Warbreaker that upon reaching a certain Heightening (8th or 9th, I don't remember) one can hijack objects awakened by someone else. So stealing Stormlight may be possible, but very hard to do...

 

I'll agree that it's possible in theory. Even other people's metalminds can be tapped with certain methods. Nightblood, Honorblades, and the larkin can "steal" Stormlight, after all. I just don't think regular Surgebinders are going to manage it in SA.

[Guest]

17th shard as in those three that were looking for Hoid back in WoK, the organisation...

 

Propably... Well, I only recall that Adolin seemed to be very fond of Wit in WoK and he even tried to convince Dalinar to him... But that could be an effect of some of Hoid's abilities or simply the fact that Adolin found him to be a nice person regardless of any instincts or magical interference

I guess maybe he would sense a worldhopper with bad intentions - he would know that this one is going to be trouble.

 

I must admit I never had much interest in Hoid...

 

I think Adolin likes Wit because he is funny and Adolin is always willing for a good banter. He is not afraid to be at the center of it.

 

 

I guess it could go this way, it wouldn't be bad in fact. I simply like some other possibilities more

 

That may be because I'm currently reading Mistborn, but this version of Adolin reminds me a bit of how Kelsier was perceived by people :ph34r: Which is good in my opinion because I like Kelsier

 

Me too. It is far from my favorite future for Adolin, but the possibility is there.

 

Kelsier? The two characters are quite far away... Kelsier was a popular miscreant harboring a blinding hate towards the nobility. Adolin is a young noble harboring a unseemly friendliness towards the laboring class despite thinking each person has its place. However, they both share a happy go lucky kind of personality.

 

 

Again, I wouldn't want the situation between Dalinar and Kaladin to from extreme to extreme (too trusting - not trusting at all). I just want Dalinar to be more realistic. If he waved his hand, said "well, nothing happened" and kept blindly trusting Kaladin it would be awful. He must get a bit disillusioned. The truth is that Kaladin doesn't want any harm to befall the Kholins and is loyal to them, but first and foremost he's loyal to his men (personally I like that very much about him). So there's no danger until the good of Kholin family would come at the cost of the good of Bridge 4 - in this situation it's obvious Kaladin would choose Bridge 4. But in every other situation, when those two do not contradict each other, Kaladin can be trusted to look after the good of the Kholins.

 

I also can see Dalinar feeling betrayed, especially if he found out about Adolin's and Kaladin's crimes around the same time. He would be willing to stop trusting Kaladin completely, but eventually he will understand that it's foolish. After all, deep down Dalinar also cares first about those he loves and only then about the kingdom (that's why punishing Adolin would be very hard to him). He will be more wary, but he will still trust Kaladin - simply not so blindly as before. Generally I also see Kaladin shining not sinking (and Adolin sinking first and then shining), but I think that even if there's a rift created between Kal and Dalinar, he will still have a chance to shine. Dalinar started with trusting Kaladin blindly, others weren't very sure. Now, even if Dalinar's trust wavers, others will start warming up to Kaladin, especially after his success in Kholinar.

 

But it's a problem... Kaladin's work is to guard the Kohlins: his duty should come before his men. Dalinar would see it this way although he would respect Kaladin's dedication to his men. The Kohlins as a whole do not like to waste human life. I think the main issue with Kaladin is the fact he refused to denounce a traitor and even sink as low as to take part into the treachery.

 

However, I have somehow the impression Dalinar will go easy on Kaladin. He seems to have nearly adopt him and besides, Kaladin saved him so many times by now. It is a hard one to figure.

[Kyats Rani she/her]

I'll agree that it's possible in theory. Even other people's metalminds can be tapped with certain methods. Nightblood, Honorblades, and the larkin can "steal" Stormlight, after all. I just don't think regular Surgebinders are going to manage it in SA.

 

Yeah, I guess you're right. I actually forgot the larkin I agree with the fact that regular Surgebinders aren't going to be able to do this. But maybe the Voidbringers? If they could steal stormlight they'd be even more dangerous and hard to defeat.

 

 

I must admit I never had much interest in Hoid...

 

I think Adolin likes Wit because he is funny and Adolin is always willing for a good banter. He is not afraid to be at the center of it.

 

Well, I like Hoid's character because I like to read his banters... And I am curious as to what is his real purpose, but only as an additional trivia, because the regular plot in SA is more interesting.

 

I don't remember Wit ever making fun of Adolin... He targeted Renarin mostly. And Renarin handled him pretty well in WoK

 

 

Me too. It is far from my favorite future for Adolin, but the possibility is there.

 

Kelsier? The two characters are quite far away... Kelsier was a popular miscreant harboring a blinding hate towards the nobility. Adolin is a young noble harboring a unseemly friendliness towards the laboring class despite thinking each person has its place. However, they both share a happy go lucky kind of personality.

 

Well, their backgrounds may be far away, but personalities not that much (if we go with the idea of Adolin becoming the new Blackthorn). Of course Kelsier is way more, I don't know how to call it, intense and ruthless than Adolin could possibly become, but still if we were to see Adolin leading a team (and his own army) then I can see him doing this in a similar way to how Kelsier led his crew.

 

 

But it's a problem... Kaladin's work is to guard the Kohlins: his duty should come before his men. Dalinar would see it this way although he would respect Kaladin's dedication to his men. The Kohlins as a whole do not like to waste human life. I think the main issue with Kaladin is the fact he refused to denounce a traitor and even sink as low as to take part into the treachery.

 

However, I have somehow the impression Dalinar will go easy on Kaladin. He seems to have nearly adopt him and besides, Kaladin saved him so many times by now. It is a hard one to figure.

 

Yes, the part with keeping Moash's crime secret is going to be a big problem. I can see Dalinar feeling betrayed and being angry with Kaladin, but with time he'll accept the situation. The relations between them will go back to normal, but Dalinar will keep a healthy dose of mistrust...

[Guest]

Well, I like Hoid's character because I like to read his banters... And I am curious as to what is his real purpose, but only as an additional trivia, because the regular plot in SA is more interesting.

 

I don't remember Wit ever making fun of Adolin... He targeted Renarin mostly. And Renarin handled him pretty well in WoK

 

I find Hoid unnerving because he knows things, but refused to share. He comes to taunt the main characters, claiming he wants to help them and yet telling them close to nothing useful.

 

Wit always made fun of Adolin's failed courtships. He was never mean with him, teasing and playful. We know Wit tells people what he believes they need to hear. We have a WoB stating Wit thinks Renarin needs to built up. I have no idea what he thinks Adolin needs, but I was slightly frustrated when he blatantly told Kaladin to flirt with Shallan as he saw how attached Adolin was getting to her.

 

 

Yes, the part with keeping Moash's crime secret is going to be a big problem. I can see Dalinar feeling betrayed and being angry with Kaladin, but with time he'll accept the situation. The relations between them will go back to normal, but Dalinar will keep a healthy dose of mistrust...

 

Kaladin may claim he has no idea Moash would do what he did. It is not obvious Dalinar would find out although I believe it would be Kaladin's style to just go admit to everything.

[Kyats Rani she/her]

I find Hoid unnerving because he knows things, but refused to share. He comes to taunt the main characters, claiming he wants to help them and yet telling them close to nothing useful.

 

Wit always made fun of Adolin's failed courtships. He was never mean with him, teasing and playful. We know Wit tells people what he believes they need to hear. We have a WoB stating Wit thinks Renarin needs to built up. I have no idea what he thinks Adolin needs, but I was slightly frustrated when he blatantly told Kaladin to flirt with Shallan as he saw how attached Adolin was getting to her.

 

True that Well, Adolin never minded Wit's jokes about his courtships... I don't know, maybe that was Hoid's way of saying "settle down finally"? As for the part with Kaladin and Shallan - I thought it was funny I didn't read it as Wit having bad intentions towards Adolin, he just wanted to be amusing and I think he knew Kaladin wouldn't do that anyway.

 

 

Kaladin may claim he has no idea Moash would do what he did. It is not obvious Dalinar would find out although I believe it would be Kaladin's style to just go admit to everything.

 

I think Kaladin may not start speaking on his own, but when Dalinar asks him something related to the matter (where is Moash if nothing else) then he will answer truthfully. It's not his style to lie, besides Syl wouldn't be happy with him if he tried to.

[Guest]

True that Well, Adolin never minded Wit's jokes about his courtships... I don't know, maybe that was Hoid's way of saying "settle down finally"? As for the part with Kaladin and Shallan - I thought it was funny I didn't read it as Wit having bad intentions towards Adolin, he just wanted to be amusing and I think he knew Kaladin wouldn't do that anyway.

 

He told Kaladin what he thought Kaladin needed to hear: to stop putting some much importance into eye color and to authorize him to be interested in a lighteyed woman. I thought it was hypocritical as I felt Wit did not care at all about Adolin's obvious feelings, but cared more about Kaladin's perception of the world. To rest his case, he was willing to jeopardized the one courtship Adolin seemed to really be invested in by putting the idea into Kal's head him and Shallan could be.

 

Come to think of it, I really do not like Wit.... It is not he had bad intentions towards Adolin, but he did not care if he ended being the collateral damage in all this.

 

 

I think Kaladin may not start speaking on his own, but when Dalinar asks him something related to the matter (where is Moash if nothing else) then he will answer truthfully. It's not his style to lie, besides Syl wouldn't be happy with him if he tried to.

 

You think? I think it would be Kaladin's style to come clean to Dalinar, but he would phrased it in a way to make it pass easier. He may say he found out about Moash implications, but had hopes to steer him away from this idea. He could tell Dalinar about how Moash parents were killed by Elhokar's bad decision making. He would conclude by stating once he found out he could not do anything, he chased him away, but could not take the shards away.

 

He may offer the Honorblade to Dalinar in payment for the lost shards....

[Kyats Rani she/her]

He told Kaladin what he thought Kaladin needed to hear: to stop putting some much importance into eye color and to authorize him to be interested in a lighteyed woman. I thought it was hypocritical as I felt Wit did not care at all about Adolin's obvious feelings, but cared more about Kaladin's perception of the world. To rest his case, he was willing to jeopardized the one courtship Adolin seemed to really be invested in by putting the idea into Kal's head him and Shallan could be.

 

Come to think of it, I really do not like Wit.... It is not he had bad intentions towards Adolin, but he did not care if he ended being the collateral damage in all this.

 

From this perspective, Wit really acted like a jerk. But it could also be that he tried to encourage Adolin's sense of posessivness - he wanted to force him to fight for the girl he cares for... Though even if, it was still a bad joke on his part.

 

Personally I think Wit is amusing, especially in a way he interacts with others. I would really like to see more of him together with Jasnah in an interlude...

 

 

You think? I think it would be Kaladin's style to come clean to Dalinar, but he would phrased it in a way to make it pass easier. He may say he found out about Moash implications, but had hopes to steer him away from this idea. He could tell Dalinar about how Moash parents were killed by Elhokar's bad decision making. He would conclude by stating once he found out he could not do anything, he chased him away, but could not take the shards away.

 

He may offer the Honorblade to Dalinar in payment for the lost shards....

 

But he has already given the Honorblade to Dalinar...

 

I think he wouldn't start the subject himself, because if he were to speak at all, he would speak the whole truth. I guess I simply perceive the matter in a different way

[Guest]

From this perspective, Wit really acted like a jerk. But it could also be that he tried to encourage Adolin's sense of posessivness - he wanted to force him to fight for the girl he cares for... Though even if, it was still a bad joke on his part.

 

Personally I think Wit is amusing, especially in a way he interacts with others. I would really like to see more of him together with Jasnah in an interlude...

 

He hardly interacted with Adolin in the whole scene: he was focused on Kaladin. His behavior felt wrong to me. I may find him amusing if he did not come through as a complete jerk.

 

 

But he has already given the Honorblade to Dalinar...

 

I think he wouldn't start the subject himself, because if he were to speak at all, he would speak the whole truth. I guess I simply perceive the matter in a different way

 

He did? I was under the impression he had not decided what to do with it... I guess he may not initiate the conversation, but if asked bluntly, I believe he would speak the truth. It does not look like Kaladin to invent a cover story. Besides, I think by now Kaladin has too much respect towards Dalinar to lie to him that is unless Dalinar does not fail to trial Amaram as promised.... and since I think he may not.... then Kaladin may not feel the need to come clean anymore....

[Kyats Rani she/her]

He hardly interacted with Adolin in the whole scene: he was focused on Kaladin. His behavior felt wrong to me. I may find him amusing if he did not come through as a complete jerk.

 

Apart from that one scene he wasn't that much of a jerk... I don't know, I don't have any issue with this conversation... :ph34r: When you point it out I guess you're right, but personally I didn't see anything wrong there.

 

 

He did? I was under the impression he had not decided what to do with it... I guess he may not initiate the conversation, but if asked bluntly, I believe he would speak the truth. It does not look like Kaladin to invent a cover story. Besides, I think by now Kaladin has too much respect towards Dalinar to lie to him that is unless Dalinar does not fail to trial Amaram as promised.... and since I think he may not.... then Kaladin may not feel the need to come clean anymore....

 

I was pretty sure he has given the Honorblade to Dalinar when he came back to Urithiru... I guess I'll have to find my book.

 

I have a feeling that he would still want to cover up for Moash if possible (he's way too loyal to his men, even if they don't deserve it). Or at least he wouldn't want to give that information away if it's possible to keep it hidden. But if Dalinar ever asked, Kaladin would answer truthfully - Syl will make sure of that. I really hope that Kaladin won't backward his character development to go back to mistrusting Dalinar because of Amaram... He should be above that now.

[Nyte]

Q:  Please don't tell me you're going to do a love triangle between Adolin, Kaladin, and Shallan.

A:  [Phrased very carefully] I'm not a fan of the traditional love triangle. However, I am fond of conflict in relationships.

 

What if something really non-traditional happens.

 

Adolin/Shallan happen just fine.

But.... dun dun dun..... Syl and Pattern.

 

Pattern has said several times he came to learn about our world. Seeing Shallan and Adolin maybe he wants to experience this too. Major non-traditional love triangle with Adolin : Shallan : Khaladin.

 

 

[DeployParachute]

Q:  Please don't tell me you're going to do a love triangle between Adolin, Kaladin, and Shallan.
A:  [Phrased very carefully] I'm not a fan of the traditional love triangle. However, I am fond of conflict in relationships.

 

You know, I see Brandon's answer to that question thrown around a lot, and I never really paid much attention to it until now.  Brandon says he's not a fan of the "traditional" love triangle.  Well, what the heck does Brandon consider to be "traditional" concerning this common writing trope?  I mean, there are many ways to skin this particular cat, and I don't see any one way used more than the others that I could specifically point to it and say "Yep, that's the traditional definition of what a love triangle is".  Also, many people on the boards and other SA fan locations seem to be absolutely dreading the possibility of a love triangle (which I have never understood btw).  Do people who maintain a strong negative position towards the love triangle trope hate all forms a triangle can take, or is it specifically against their own definition of what a traditional love triangle is?  Just some mindless ramblings as I lay here unable to fall asleep...

 

Also, some examples of various forms love triangles can take (which one is Brandon referring to as "traditional" do you think, which do you?):

Person A loves Person B, and Person C loves Person A

Person A loves B, and B loves C, and C loves A

Person A and B loves C, and C is oblivious to both

Person A loves Stick, Person B loves Stick, and Stick loves them both because Stick is Stick?

Edited December 5, 2014 by DeployParachute

[Andvari]

A lot of people seem to be worried about some kind of love triangle, but it has already been pretty well laid-out in WoR.  It would be pretty sloppy at this point for him not to go through with whatever drama he has in store. I don't see why it's such a problem.  Ignoring the ideas of love and jealousy would mean ignoring a massive motivating factor for humans and would make for an unusual story.

[Pathfinder]

A lot of people seem to be worried about some kind of love triangle, but it has already been pretty well laid-out in WoR.  It would be pretty sloppy at this point for him not to go through with whatever drama he has in store. I don't see why it's such a problem.  Ignoring the ideas of love and jealousy would mean ignoring a massive motivating factor for humans and would make for an unusual story.

The problem would be with how love triangles have frequently been portrayed in the past. Instead of it being a real conflict of emotions and investment in relationships, it has become the teenage version of "oh well he or she has dreamy brown eyes, and is dark and brooding, while the other he or she has icy blue eyes, and is cold and distant. Which oh which do I chose to share my tender heart with!?!?"

 

edit: it could be argued that that has already played out in the mistborn trilogy between vin, elend and zane, but I like to think of that less as a love triangle and more of an identity crisis for Vin and Elend, with Zane being the catalyst that challenged their self perceived images of themselves.  

Edited December 11, 2014 by Pathfinder

[Andvari]

Yeah, definitely wouldn't want to see that happen. I just feel like there is a real knee-jerk reaction to the trope of boy-meets-girl-meets-boy. Just because something has been done in other books doesn't mean it can't be done again (in a better, less nauseating way). It WAS pretty annoying to read about Shallan's simplistic internal debate, i.e. Adolin has such a cute smile but Kaladin has such intense brooding eyes. Buuuut she is also seventeen years old, even if seventeen is actually older in her world, so expecting her to be extraordarily mature about boys might be unrealistic.