Red Book of Westmarch Project

[Trutharchivist he/him]

@PianoSavant, @GjornHrathen, @KnightSkye, @Annatar, @TwinStorm.

To the uninitiated: this is an idea for a highly theoretical project that will only be possible once the copyright for both the Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit are free. I'm not sure about the particular legal details of it all, so this is a thing to consider, but I'm not putting the Silmarillion into consideration because due to the fact it was heavily edited by Christopher, I believe it's not going to enter the public domain until decades after LotR and the Hobbit.

That said: the basic idea is to have a leatherbound edition combining the Hobbit and LotR, and presenting them in a way that would look like the canonical Red Book of Westmarch. That would include things like five crossed out titles, for example, and possibly other things I can't think of right now - changing fonts between different writers, perhaps, and such things. Further suggestion will be accepted, it's all still in a very theoretical phase.

Things I can think of the top of my head that need to be done include planning to content exactly, finding a publishing house that works with binding books in leather and figuring out how to start a kickstarter. Considering we have just about 20 years, it shouldn't be too hard to figure all this out. Finding what to do in the meantime might be more pressing.

In theory, convincing the Tolkien estate or someone who has the appropriate rights to do something like this (and no, I don't mean a matching paperback set of Tolkien books in which LotR has a red cover. That's not the Red Book) could speed things up - but I have about 0 faith in the possibility of actually convincing them, so for now we wait.

Finding a lawyer expert on copyright laws is probably also a good idea. Or finding data about it in general.

[Annatar he/him]

4 hours ago, Trutharchivist said:

@PianoSavant, @GjornHrathen, @KnightSkye, @Annatar, @TwinStorm.

To the uninitiated: this is an idea for a highly theoretical project that will only be possible once the copyright for both the Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit are free. I'm not sure about the particular legal details of it all, so this is a thing to consider, but I'm not putting the Silmarillion into consideration because due to the fact it was heavily edited by Christopher, I believe it's not going to enter the public domain until decades after LotR and the Hobbit.

That said: the basic idea is to have a leatherbound edition combining the Hobbit and LotR, and presenting them in a way that would look like the canonical Red Book of Westmarch. That would include things like five crossed out titles, for example, and possibly other things I can't think of right now - changing fonts between different writers, perhaps, and such things. Further suggestion will be accepted, it's all still in a very theoretical phase.

Things I can think of the top of my head that need to be done include planning to content exactly, finding a publishing house that works with binding books in leather and figuring out how to start a kickstarter. Considering we have just about 20 years, it shouldn't be too hard to figure all this out. Finding what to do in the meantime might be more pressing.

In theory, convincing the Tolkien estate or someone who has the appropriate rights to do something like this (and no, I don't mean a matching paperback set of Tolkien books in which LotR has a red cover. That's not the Red Book) could speed things up - but I have about 0 faith in the possibility of actually convincing them, so for now we wait.

Finding a lawyer expert on copyright laws is probably also a good idea. Or finding data about it in general.

Do you think Tolkien estate would be convinced at the possiblity of profit from it? If so than we might want to approach with caution as they might take the idea that you created and turn it for themselves and hike the price higher than necessary.

[Trutharchivist he/him]

On 2/6/2025 at 6:50 PM, Annatar said:

Do you think Tolkien estate would be convinced at the possiblity of profit from it? If so than we might want to approach with caution as they might take the idea that you created and turn it for themselves and hike the price higher than necessary.

I honestly don't know how to approach them on such a matter. It probably would require consulting a lawyer about it - I really don't know how any of this works.

[Annatar he/him]

8 minutes ago, Trutharchivist said:

I honestly don't know how to approach them on such a matter. It probably would require consulting a lawyer about it - I really don't know how any of this works.

when I get some time, I'll take a gander at the laws and other jargon of this matter.

[Trutharchivist he/him]

25 minutes ago, Annatar said:

when I get some time, I'll take a gander at the laws and other jargon of this matter.

Thank you, o Lord of Gifts. Hopefully this gift doesn't come at any sprt of price or something that I was deceived about.

[Annatar he/him]

2 hours ago, Trutharchivist said:

Thank you, o Lord of Gifts. Hopefully this gift doesn't come at any sprt of price or something that I was deceived about.

I'll see what I can do... Maybe I'll even throw 3 little rings in as a bonus or something. A ring of fire perhaps?

[Annatar he/him]

On 2/8/2025 at 6:43 PM, Trutharchivist said:

Thank you, o Lord of Gifts. Hopefully this gift doesn't come at any sprt of price or something that I was deceived about.

Ok, so I did a bit of research and as far as I can tell, there is nothing we can do legally to make the Red Book of Westmarch without infringing on Tolkien Estates copyright license UNTIL 2044 when all assets of Tolkien Estate become public domain.

[Annatar he/him]

On 2/15/2025 at 8:39 PM, Annatar said:

Ok, so I did a bit of research and as far as I can tell, there is nothing we can do legally to make the Red Book of Westmarch without infringing on Tolkien Estates copyright license UNTIL 2044 when all assets of Tolkien Estate become public domain.

Hey! Great news... kinda. So I was doing some more research and found that the Tolkien Estate copyright expired in 2023 in New Zealand. I don't know weather or not that means you have to be a legal born New Zealand citizen to take advantage of it or what but interesting information none the less. Maybe we could find someone on the Shard that is from NZ that would be willing to help.

[Trutharchivist he/him]

...

Well, I guess that settles it then. Except it probably any commercial use outside of New Zealand is still prohibited. Meaning, not only would you have to do it in New Zealand, you also won't be able to sell it out. If we want to do it for the personal use of everyone who signed in we'll have to all go to New Zealand, probably.