Andrew C Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 Evidence for this comes mostly from timing. From Eshonai's PoV in I-4, the Lost Legion escaped the control of their gods 'centuries ago'. This is the right timing to sync with the Recreance. Secondly, this seems like a great way for Odium to harm Honor. A mutual disarmament seems like an honorable thing and so the KR might agree - only to discover that this 'truce' kills their spren. KR are forbidden from putting weakness above strength - presumably Odium's forces do not draw strength from oaths. 2
hoser he/him Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 Good creative thinking. I like it! Two possible concerns: Why would the Radiants trust the voidbringers? Once they are gone, they are not coming back. The Voidbringers are still around. Even more if the Parshendi can't avoid the change. I think that the consequences of oathbreaking must have been known at that point. Some number of knights must have stumbled as Kaladin did. 1
Andrew C Posted June 15, 2014 Author Posted June 15, 2014 Good creative thinking. I like it! Two possible concerns: Why would the Radiants trust the voidbringers? Once they are gone, they are not coming back. The Voidbringers are still around. Even more if the Parshendi can't avoid the change. I think that the consequences of oathbreaking must have been known at that point. Some number of knights must have stumbled as Kaladin did. Responding to these: 1) I feel that the shardic intent of Honor may create some way by which the Radiants could coerce the Voidbringers into accepting this deal. Akin to the Oathpact (which I believe Odium was coerced into, although he may have seen it as an opportunity to corrupt the Heralds in the very long term). 2) (Minor spoiler for Wheel of Time books 11/12) The Wheel of Time discusses what happens in its universe if a character swears multiple, contradictory oaths on an implement that makes them binding - the character becomes unable to breathe and presumably dies unless released from one of them. But, importantly, they are NOT stopped from swearing the second, contradictory oath. This may be the case here. IIRC, the test occurs when someone has sworn the Aes Sedai oaths (including "Thou shalt not lie"), gives their word that they will not betray Egwene, and later is coerced by someone else into swearing an oath of obedience, then is asked to reveal Egwene's plans. It may be the case that the Radiants were able to swear some sort of non-aggression, mutual disarmament pact that was not immediately a violation of the "Strength before Weakness" oath but trapped them into a situation where the two oaths became counterposed, like in the WoT example.
Terisen he/him Posted June 15, 2014 Posted June 15, 2014 It's an interesting idea and one that seems to line up in terms of sequence, but I think there's a couple issues with it. First thing is that, if this was indeed the case, there would have been some historical records of this that Jasnah would have come across. As much as Vorinism tried to scrub things and make the Radiants out to be villains, there were still records that survived (see the in-world Words of Radiance book). Even if they were scrubbed, the fact that parshmen started being used at the same time as the Recreance would have been a MAJOR piece of evidence that scholars likely would not have ignored. It may be the case that the Radiants were able to swear some sort of non-aggression, mutual disarmament pact that was not immediately a violation of the "Strength before Weakness" oath but trapped them into a situation where the two oaths became counterposed, like in the WoT example. I'm not sure who they'd be swearing these secondary oaths to. They swear these oaths to the spren, ostensibly, so who would the second oaths go to? Odium? I highly doubt that the Radiants would ever trust Odium, regardless of the promises made.
Andrew C Posted June 16, 2014 Author Posted June 16, 2014 I'm not sure how swearing Oaths works on Roshar, only that they can be genuinely binding on other beings. The Oathpact appears to prevent Odium using the full extent of his power or even supernatural forces he has controlled before, and the consequences for Syl of Kaladin failing to live up to his Oaths are real. The key question in my mind is - did the Recreance-era Radiants know Tavanast was dead (or was he even dead at the time). A mutual disarmament may have been seen as an acceptable last resort if Tavanast was believed to be dying and would explain the Heirocracy too as the Vorin church tried to suppress the knowledge that their god was dead.
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