Shardic Asymmetry

[CryoZenith he/him]

So, we know that the relationship between a Shard and its Vessel is a contest of willpower against the Shard that, over time, is very hard to resist (Brando's exact words).

Which means that how long it takes for a Vessel's Intent to be overpowered, and to what extent it is, depends on at least three things: how much time has passed, how much willpower the Vessel has as a person, and how much he is willing to fight back. (since you can have high mental endurance but choose to not exercise it)

My question is whether there is also a fourth factor, innate to the particular Shard we are talking about, everything else being equal. So, for example, let's say we have two people, one the Vessel of Invention, the other the Vessel of Whimsy. They have both held the power for the same amount of time, they are both equally strong-willed, and they both equally want to resist their respective Shard's intent. Would those two Vessels be equally "overpowered", or is there something concretely relevant about which Shards we choose for this question that directly changes the answer?

I don't feel strongly either way, tbh. What are your thoughts?

Edited January 21, 2022 by CryoZenith

[HSuperLee]

Part of me wants to say that each person probably has a level of "compatibility" with each Shard (which is independent from Connection) which makes that Shard easier to work with for them. I don't have any real evidence  to believe this, other than it just makes sense to me. For example, I imagine that I would probably be able to do more with the Shard Preservation than Whimsy because I don't like randomness, but I do like patterns and stability. In a way though, that's less of someone resisting a Shard inasmuch as their mind already somewhat conforms to the Shard's intent, and therefore the Shard doesn't need to change them as much. But again, I don't really know if that's how it would work. We just don't have enough examples of pre and post ascension comparisons. But I would imagine that if I'm correct about this, then Rayse probably had very high "compatibility" with Odium, which could explain all the stuff he achieved in his early days of being a Shardholder. Or maybe I'm just making it all up.

[Quantus he/him]

15 minutes ago, HSuperLee said:

Part of me wants to say that each person probably has a level of "compatibility" with each Shard (which is independent from Connection) which makes that Shard easier to work with for them. I don't have any real evidence  to believe this, other than it just makes sense to me. For example, I imagine that I would probably be able to do more with the Shard Preservation than Whimsy because I don't like randomness, but I do like patterns and stability. In a way though, that's less of someone resisting a Shard inasmuch as their mind already somewhat conforms to the Shard's intent, and therefore the Shard doesn't need to change them as much. But again, I don't really know if that's how it would work. We just don't have enough examples of pre and post ascension comparisons. But I would imagine that if I'm correct about this, then Rayse probably had very high "compatibility" with Odium, which could explain all the stuff he achieved in his early days of being a Shardholder. Or maybe I'm just making it all up.

I agree with this, there's going to be an element of personal Compatibility from person to person, as a 4th factor.  But all individual things being equal I dont think there is going to be any one of the 16 that is innately more or less prone to warping.  I generally thing the Intent warping is more or less like savantism and/or Sliver warping which are all about quantities of Investiture, and all the 16 Shards are equal in Power.  

At most I think there might be one or more that allow for alternative to the Single-Vessel model, btu Im making some assumptions about how Avatar-ism works there.  

[CryoZenith he/him]

38 minutes ago, Quantus said:

I agree with this, there's going to be an element of personal Compatibility from person to person, as a 4th factor.  But all individual things being equal I dont think there is going to be any one of the 16 that is innately more or less prone to warping.  I generally thing the Intent warping is more or less like savantism and/or Sliver warping which are all about quantities of Investiture, and all the 16 Shards are equal in Power.

Yeah, that's basically what I was thinking about. Compatibility (whether it should be written with lowercase or uppercase "c" is an interesting question in itself; also should we be using the word compatibility instead of the word Connection anyway) differing between two Vessels wouldn't fit the "everything else being equal-ness" in my hypothetical. The question is whether some shardic Intents are more memetically virulent than others inherently, independently of Vessel personality. And yes, the prior position is that the answer is no; any alternative answer bears a burden of proof.

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At most I think there might be one or more that allow for alternative to the Single-Vessel model, btu Im making some assumptions about how Avatar-ism works there.  

You know what would be really cool? This is more fanfictioning than theorycrafting, I'm not saying Brando Sando would ever do this, but imagine there was a planet where the Vessel was elected for temporary and short terms. So, say, for example, every 4 years someone else would take up Invention, and the previous Vessel (now Sliver) would give up their spot willingly. The benefits of having a system like this is that you could ensure that your local god always has the interests of humanity in mind, and not only that he has the interests of humanity in mind, but that his interpretation of those interests is still largely a human-mindspace interpretation. The obvious downside of this kind of system is that the previous Vessel could always be like "screw your democracy, I'm keeping my throne" but... them's the breaks :D.

Edited January 21, 2022 by CryoZenith

[Duxredux he/him]

We have rather limited information on this, but here's a couple relevant concepts.

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Ati was once a kind and generous man, and you saw what became of him. Rayse, on the other hand, was among the most loathsome, crafty, and dangerous individuals I had ever met.

Way of Kings Chapter 18 Epigraph

 

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Alvaro Lopez

Why Odium is stronger and worst evil than Ruin?

Brandon Sanderson

One reason is that Ruin had a person in control of it who, for many years, fought against the impulse to destroy--and in the end, channeled it toward entropy and decay, necessary elements of the universe. Odium represents something else entirely.

General Twitter 2018 (June 6, 2018)

From this, it appears that to a partial extent it was possible to alter the Intent of Ruin? I agree that "alignment of the Intent of Vessel and Shard" may depend on the specific Shard. I'm not sure if talking about "resisting" a Shard's Intent can be looked as separate from the specific Shard, since operating counter to the Shard's Intent will look different in different scenarios. Take Kelsier being unable to attack as Preservation without figuring out a workaround at the end, and Ati apparently who fought to direct Ruin into "constructive" destruction. I would expect the Vessel of Preservation to drift towards stasis or inaction, whereas the Vessels of Odium or Honor would be driven toward action. From a basic psychological standpoint, consider how you would change if you had the powerset of Preservation for millennia - cannot talk to anyone except the deceased as they pass into the beyond, heals and shores up damages to souls, and can hear everyone in the world. Compare that to Ruin - cannot hear the thoughts of men but can talk to them, cannot repair but only damage. 

Edited January 21, 2022 by Duxredux