Elhokar's Spren

[WitSpren]

So from WoK/WoR we know that Elhokar was seeing a Cryptic before Kal took over guard duty.

 

Will his Spren come back?  (I think yes)    Now that he is at Urithiru with Shallan will that bring it back or will he see Pattern (I think Probably-finally) & will that trigger her to tell him about Cryptics and to help him "make/finish" the connection?

 

What "broke" him?      His fathers death?     His wife's infedelity?     His not true son?

 

What are his lies/truths?

[Dihatimus]

He has admitted to being a bad king. I think this guy has more truths than anyone. I actually have high hopes for the brat. He will have more room for growth than anyone, and is in a position that needs that growth. 

 

Hell he isn't broken, he's damnation near shattered.

[Wrath]

Well Kaladin has flown off to Hearthstone so if it is a case of Honourspren chasing off non-bonded Cryptics that should have stopped. But there's the fact that Elhokar wants to learn from Kaladin, so it's possible that his attempts to be honourable will preclude him from becoming a Lightweaver.

 

Besides I don't think truths do you any good unless you've said the First Ideal. Lightweavers only have the one ideal but Pattern says that Shallan still had to say the words when she was a child to form the bond in the first place.

[Roarsach]

Do we have a wob that it is for a fact a cryptic?

[WitSpren]

Do we have a wob that it is for a fact a cryptic?

i do not think so, but have hot read all of those so i could easily be wrong.

 

But his descriptions of them in the mirror and from the corner of his eyes, were dead on with the Cryptics.    So i would be very shocked if it was not.

[Wrath]

The only difference we know between them is the way in which Shallan and Elhokar have been observing them. But I doubt Lightweavers are limited solely to visual artists, so capturing them on paper probably isn't the only way to observe them.

 

Of course without the WoB we can't say for certain that they are Cryptics either.

[Adolin_Dustbringer]

I don't understand why everyone seems to think that just because Cryptics were around him, he's a future Radiant. I honestly think they were just attracted to his lies. 

[Wrath]

I don't understand why everyone seems to think that just because Cryptics were around him, he's a future Radiant. I honestly think they were just attracted to his lies. 

 

The problem with that would seem to be that lots of people are liars on Roshar without seeing Cryptics. Now it could be that Elhokar has something of Rock's ability to see hidden spren, or something else entirely could be going on, but I don't think it makes sense for the explanation to be as simple as Elhokar being a liar.

[hoser]

I think Cryptics are particularly attracted to creativity when choosing people to bond.  I imagine the mixture of truth and lies in a creative enterprise fascinates them.  So unless drunkenness equals creativity, I don't see evidence for Elhokar being attractive for Cryptics to bond. 

 

Further questions:

• Why are they hanging around him?  Do they just want to know what is happening around him?
• Are they choosing to be seen or does he have a special ability to see them?
• Are they leaving when Kaladin is around or just choosing not to be seen (I know Pattern can't make himself invisible, but I think that is because he is more in the physical)? 

[Kobold King]

Remember that Cryptics don't only gather around potential Lightweavers. We know from one of the chapter bumps in WoK that there were Cryptics prowling around in Taravangian's hospitals.

[WitSpren]

Remember that Cryptics don't only gather around potential Lightweavers. We know from one of the chapter bumps in WoK that there were Cryptics prowling around in Taravangian's hospitals.

What???

 

Please provide a reference for this if you can.     I am looking & have not seen any such occurrence.     But it would not be the first time (or 100th time) I missed something.

[Wrath]

IIRC one of the Death Rattles says something like "Who is that standing there and why is his head full of lines?"

[Ren]

Well, I sincerely doubt Elhokar is forming a bond with a Cryptic. It's just that for two books he never really expressed any talent in any of the arts.

If anything, Elhokar is mostly fit for Willshaper. He's odd, most of the times he's misunderstood, people think of him as unreliable and he's fond of adventures (about the last one, you can see his eagerness in TWoK before the fight with the mature Chasmfiend.)

Elhokar sees his shadow pointing towards the Sun, that means he already started bonding his spren and he goes partly in the Cognitive Realm once in a while unconsciously. Jasnah had the same experience with Ivory. And since Elhokar's personality doesn't fit neither Lightweaver nor Elsecallers - Willshapers are the one that remain.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Ren

[Kobold King]

What???

 

Please provide a reference for this if you can.     I am looking & have not seen any such occurrence.     But it would not be the first time (or 100th time) I missed something.

 

Epigraph to Chapter 4, Part 1:

 

“I’m dying, aren’t I? Healer, why do you take my blood? Who is that beside you, with his head of lines? I can see a distant sun, dark and cold, shining in a black sky.”

 

Granted, the text does not explicitly state that this is a Cryptic. I believe that the description is specific enough for this to be a logical assumption, however.

[Adolin_Dustbringer]

Elhokar sees his shadow pointing towards the Sun, that means he already started bonding his spren and he goes partly in the Cognitive Realm once in a while unconsciously. Jasnah had the same experience with Ivory. And since Elhokar's personality doesn't fit neither Lightweaver nor Elsecallers - Willshapers are the one that remain.

 

What? Where do you see that his shadow points towards the sun?

[Zinnwalder]

If Elhokar is going to bond a spren it probably wouldn't be a criptic. As I understand it, it is one spren per KR group and the KR are split up by genders. So Elhokar could never be a lightweaver and therefor wouldn't ever bond a criptic.

[PorridgeBrick]

If Elhokar is going to bond a spren it probably wouldn't be a criptic. As I understand it, it is one spren per KR group and the KR are split up by genders. So Elhokar could never be a lightweaver and therefor wouldn't ever bond a criptic.

Er, no. There was a female Windrunner in Dalinar's vision.

[Ren]

What? Where do you see that his shadow points towards the sun?

Oh, that's my mistake, I fixed it. Sorry... some things get messed up when I don't check the books regularly.

[WitSpren]

Epigraph to Chapter 4, Part 1:

 

“I’m dying, aren’t I? Healer, why do you take my blood? Who is that beside you, with his head of lines? I can see a distant sun, dark and cold, shining in a black sky.”

 

Granted, the text does not explicitly state that this is a Cryptic. I believe that the description is specific enough for this to be a logical assumption, however.

Thank you KK.    I did not think to look as the Epigraph.    I was looking in his chapter.    

 

You are surely correct, but I'm not sure what it means.     

 

It might not be a reason to exclude Elhobar.      It could mean the they killed a potential/proto KR.

 

Or it could mean the as he got close to dying/he was crossing to the cognitive realm.

 

But you could be correct as well.     it is interesting.

[Dahak]

Do we have a wob that it is for a fact a cryptic?

 

Syl mentioned she thought there were what is implied to be voidspren around that were avoiding her.

 

Pattern while being insulting suggests that you can see voidspren in mirrors.

 

So it is just possible that Odium's trying to recruit Elokhar as a voidbinder.

[Shaggai]

Syl mentioned she thought there were what is implied to be voidspren around that were avoiding her.

 

Pattern while being insulting suggests that you can see voidspren in mirrors.

 

So it is just possible that Odium's trying to recruit Elokhar as a voidbinder.

I think Pattern was just suggested that the scribe was a Voidbringer, not a Voidspren. It was just an insult to her appearance. The mirror thing was a way of saying "it's you".

[Wrath]

We also know that Cryptics and Honourspren don't get on, so it's reasonable that they might have been avoiding Syl.

[don_karma_II]

I think Pattern was just suggested that the scribe was a Voidbringer, not a Voidspren. It was just an insult to her appearance. The mirror thing was a way of saying "it's you".

He then says that insults are interesting cause it has a bit of truth and lies in them, which implies that there is a bit of truth in what he said. Maybe voidspren do appear in mirrors and pattern used this fact as an insult, which makes him particularly happy about that insult as he loves true lies. Edited April 7, 2014 by don_karma_II

[MistLord]

Elhokar also talked about the Darkness moving as well though, much like Yasnah's Spren moved like in the prologue. I always assumed it was just the Spren interested in the politics of men as so many of their own numbers have moved back to join with them as surge binders. 

[Shaggai]

He then says that insults are interesting cause it has a bit of truth and lies in them, which implies that there is a bit of truth in what he said. Maybe voidspren do appear in mirrors and pattern used this fact as an insult, which makes him particularly happy about that insult as he loves true lies.

He meant that insults mean nothing if they don't strike something you already think about yourself. If someone is smart, and they know it, and you call them stupid, they'll laugh at you.