Radiants, Heralds, and Gender

[Seloun]

There seems to be some correlation between the gender of the Heralds and Radiants, and between the Heralds:

 

(opposite pairs)

Ish - Bondsmith - Male <=> Pali - Truthwatcher - Female

Jez - Windrunner - Male <=> Ash - Lightweaver - Female

Nin - Skybreaker - Male <=> Battah - Elsecaller - Female

Chan-a-rach - Releaser - Female <=> Kalak - Willshaper - Male

Vedel - Edgedancer - Female <=> Taln - Stoneward - Male

 

So far (almost all) of the Radiants (or Radiant candidates) seem to correlate with the gender of their Herald:

 

Dalinar - Ish - Male

Kaladin - Jez - Male

(Szeth) - Nin - Male

(?? Eshonai ??) - Chan-a-rach - Female

Lift - Vedel - Female

(Renarin : doesn't fit the pattern) - Pali

Shallan - Ash - Female

Jasnah - Battah - Female

(??) - Kalak

(??) - Taln

 

 

Renarin is the only one that doesn't seem to fit the pattern (as always, Renarin never fits in with everyone else...) This seems somewhat suspicious. I'm also assigning Eshonai as a Releaser partly because her (assumed) comet-like spren looks kind of 'dustbringer'-esque (whatever that may mean) and partly because it fits the pattern best.

 

Also, if we subscribe to Shallan/Kaladin (diametric opposites), another combination that follows the pattern is Szeth/Jasnah (from a meta perspective, their ages line up pretty well; they also seem to have one of the more interesting potential pair dynamics).

[Kurkistan]

Don't forget that Ym (either Edgedancer or Truthwatcher, due to having Regrowth) corresponds to a female Herald.

[PorridgeBrick]

Also, if we subscribe to Shallan/Kaladin (diametric opposites), another combination that follows the pattern is Szeth/Jasnah (from a meta perspective, their ages line up pretty well; they also seem to have one of the more interesting potential pair dynamics).

I doubt they will have any interaction beyond "My name is Jasnah Kholin. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

[Numb]

I doubt they will have any interaction beyond "My name is Jasnah Kholin. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

 

Well Jasnah has used assassins in the past so I highly doubt she would blame the assassin for doing his job. Instead she'll want to know every bit of information about his powers and what he knows.

[Lightflame]

I doubt they will have any interaction beyond "My name is Jasnah Kholin. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

As a loyal supporter of Jasnah/Szeth, I'm going to assume that they will gain a lot of respect for each other when they reveal that they aren't left-handed.

 

"Hello. My name is Jasnah Kholin. You killed my father. Let's team up."

[11thorderknight]

I think the connection is not to the gender of the Radiants, since I'm pretty sure all the orders comprised both genders; that would be too big a point for people to not know. However, there is definitely a correlation to the gender of the spren: the male Heralds at the top of the chart all have female spren from what we've seen (though so far, it's only been Syl) whereas all the female Heralds have male spren (Wyndle, Ym's ball of light, Renarin's Glys, Pattern, Ivory).

 

The big exception is Dalinar's spren, of course, but the Bondsmiths are an outlier in other important ways as well, so I'm willing to let this one slide, for now.

[Guest Monster Energy]

There aren't enough Surgebinders yet to give us even a rough idea if an individual's sex has anything to do with it. Personally, I think it would have been mentioned if only certain sexes become certain Orders of the Knights Radiant.

No one take this the wrong way, but I think everyone is looking at sex too deeply. Yes, Vorinism has interesting sex roles. Yes, sex and sexuality is a hot topic in society today. But I don't think someone's sex is the motivating factor for every decision in the Stormlight Archive. It's probably going to amount to nothing more than interesting worldbuilding; I'd drink a Red Bull if Brandon was weaving a subtle statement about sexuality and our society into his novel. He tends to pass over that sort of issue in favor of, in my opinion, more intersting ones.

Seriously, though. I've seen topics popping up everywhere with some ridiculous theories. Gavilar is gay! Hoid is gay! Renarin is transsexual! Who cares if they are or aren't? Brandon isn't writing books about sexuality, so a character's sexuality will have the barest impact on the plot. I doubt he was creating his Heralds and Orders with Equal Opportunity quota's in mind.

Again, I'm not trying to disparage anyone. I just think we're all laser focused on sexuality and we're probably overlooking more important stuff. Just like Mistborn was a novel that has slavery in it and was about so much more than slavery, Stormlight Archive is a novel that has sex roles in it and is about so much more than sex roles.

EDIT: Almost forgot to mention something important...I loved the Princess Bride references in earlier posts! Upvoted!

Edited March 15, 2014 by Monster Energy

[Seloun]

Well, the point isn't so much that there's a mechanic reason for the correlation (I'm not suggesting that all Windrunners are male, for example) but there may be another reason (i.e. reflection on the Heralds for plot purposes). The correlation between the current Radiant genders and the Heralds might just be coincidence (especially if there's nothing strange with Renarin).

 

I'm discounting Ym because he's not likely to be 'the' Radiant of his order (since, well, he's probably dead). Given the PoVs, the number of books, and the epigraph about the ten swords, I'm assuming that there will be one primary Radiant per Order. This is more of a meta observation than a theory about the mechanics of how things work.

 

The Heralds opposites always being opposite gender seems like a heck of a coincidence if there's no reason behind that, though. Not only that, but they're also ordered in sequence if you put the Orders in sequence (starting from Kalak to Nin => Male); it might be indicative of e.g. Honor vs. Cultivation's influence.

 

It's also possible that it's really just coincidental or has no particular bearing on the plot; it's just a surprisingly strong correlation for something if it has no meaning behind it.

[Guest Monster Energy]

Well, the point isn't so much that there's a mechanic reason for the correlation (I'm not suggesting that all Windrunners are male, for example) but there may be another reason (i.e. reflection on the Heralds for plot purposes). The correlation between the current Radiant genders and the Heralds might just be coincidence (especially if there's nothing strange with Renarin).

I'm discounting Ym because he's not likely to be 'the' Radiant of his order (since, well, he's probably dead). Given the PoVs, the number of books, and the epigraph about the ten swords, I'm assuming that there will be one primary Radiant per Order. This is more of a meta observation than a theory about the mechanics of how things work.

The Heralds opposites always being opposite gender seems like a heck of a coincidence if there's no reason behind that, though. Not only that, but they're also ordered in sequence if you put the Orders in sequence (starting from Kalak to Nin => Male); it might be indicative of e.g. Honor vs. Cultivation's influence.

It's also possible that it's really just coincidental or has no particular bearing on the plot; it's just a surprisingly strong correlation for something if it has no meaning behind it.

I think you're definitely on to something with the Heralds, I just don't see it with the Radiants. Unless a 'Head Radiant' turns out to be a thing, of course.

[Seloun]

I think you're definitely on to something with the Heralds, I just don't see it with the Radiants. Unless a 'Head Radiant' turns out to be a thing, of course.

Well, it's certainly shaping up to be the case that there's a 'main' Radiant (plotwise) for each Order. Again, this part is not really in reference to in-world mechanics, but from a meta perspective. There's certainly a strong correlation given what's known, barring Renarin.

 

As a loyal supporter of Jasnah/Szeth, I'm going to assume that they will gain a lot of respect for each other when they reveal that they aren't left-handed.

 

I actually do think Jasnah and Szeth are pretty compatible. They're among the most knowledgeable of the main protagonists. Yes, they have Gavilar's death as an issue between them, and it's hardly a trivial one, but it's the sort of thing which is readily mined for drama.

[TomR]

(??) - Taln

 

We see a female Stoneward in one of Dalinar's visions in book 1. Though if Taln doesn't get his Honorblade back, it would be funny if he got a spren and become a Stoneward  

 

Seriously, though. I've seen topics popping up everywhere with some ridiculous theories. Gavilar is gay! Hoid is gay! Renarin is transsexual! Who cares if they are or aren't? Brandon isn't writing books about sexuality, so a character's sexuality will have the barest impact on the plot. I doubt he was creating his Heralds and Orders with Equal Opportunity quota's in mind.

Again, I'm not trying to disparage anyone. I just think we're all laser focused on sexuality and we're probably overlooking more important stuff.

People who might feel that their voices have been marginalized in society care about positive representations of their own viewpoints. However, respectfully, I don't see how discussions about sexuality mean anyone's going to overlook "more important stuff." That's a false choice-- it's not like speculating about one thing renders you unable to speculate about any others. It's just one more thing about the books that some people enjoy talking about.

 

I think you're definitely on to something with the Heralds, I just don't see it with the Radiants. Unless a 'Head Radiant' turns out to be a thing, of course.

 

When I saw discussion of the ten thrones in Urithiru, I did wonder if they were for ten Radiants on a council overseeing the city or if they were a meeting place for the kings of the ten Silver Kingdoms. Some orders I could see with a Head Radiant (we know Windrunners had a hierarchy), but I'm not sure if all of them would, or whether in some cases it wouldn't be more than nominal if they did.

[Guest Monster Energy]

@TomR

I meant more important stuff as in the context of the books, not as in the context of real life. I'm not trying to marginalize anyone's voices, or detract value from whatever is important to other people. But would you agree that it would be more important to know exactly what Hoid is doing on Roshar, or if Nightblood can use Stormlight instead of Breath, than it is to determine who Shallan is crushing on harder? That's all I meant. Sorry if I came across as not caring about other people.

...although reading this post I could maybe see how it could be interpreted as me not caring again. I'll just trust that you believe me when I say I don't mean to come across that way.

[TomR]

@TomR

I meant more important stuff as in the context of the books, not as in the context of real life. I'm not trying to marginalize anyone's voices, or detract value from whatever is important to other people. 

 

I understand what you're saying, and I get that you're not trying to marginalize any voices. This is starting to feel pretty close to a touchy topic, so I'll leave the real life stuff at that.

 

But would you agree that it would be more important to know exactly what Hoid is doing on Roshar, or if Nightblood can use Stormlight instead of Breath, than it is to determine who Shallan is crushing on harder?

 

Not exactly. I do get where you're coming from, but...

 

First, take the examples. I think it's safe to assume Nightblood can use Stormlight instead of Breath or it's pretty much worthless. Hoid is manipulating characters and events to turn Roshar into a bullet aimed at Rayse, which is significant but probably not very important until we get to the second five books. Until then, Hoid is just playing the part of Trickster-as-Spiritual-Guide without being central to anything himself. Within the first five books, however, I believe "who Shallan's crushing on harder" will have greater importance than either of those two questions. Love triangles are used so often for a reason. Shallan developing feelings for both Adolin and Kaladin could divide Shallan, Kaladin, and the Kholins. Shallan/Kaladin as Guinevere/Lancelot: even if a split doesn't go as far as the fall of Camelot, it's still a big deal.

 

Second, again, talking about one thing (e.g. relationships) doesn't actually prevent talking about others (e.g. Hoid and Nighblood). The forums cover all sorts of topics, and if someone feels that a point has been missed, they can add a post or start a new topic and feel confident that someone will see it and respond. Even if some topics get more traffic, others still get plenty of attention.

 

Finally, when you get down to it, none of this is exactly imperative. Speculating's fun-- well, at least I enjoy it. The forums are a great resource and a place where people passionate about a shared interest can exchange thoughts and ideas. But eventually all the books will come out, and we'll have all the answers. Given that, I don't think ranking importance is all that important

Edited March 16, 2014 by TomR