Stages in the Nahel Bond

[Aonar]

This isn't exactly a theory per say, but over the last few days I've been mulling over how Nahel Bonds develop, and compiled what we know about it in this list. I've tried to provide examples from the books for everything, but some stuff is a little iffy. 

 

Stages in the Nahel Bond:

 

0.5.  Person goes through a traumatic (soul-breaking) experience that allows them to form a nahel bond. (Kaladin losing Tien, Shallan killing her father.)

 

1.  Something about a person's cognitive aspect attracts a spren that is capable of bonding to them.

a.  At this stage, some very limited surgebinding ability develops. (Shallan’s first journey to Shadesmar.)

 

2.  Inciting incident that solidifies the bond. (Kaladin rejecting the Shardblade (Maybe), Shallan admitting that she killed her father.)

a.  Spren begins to assume a Physical form. (Shallan begins seeing her Cryptic soon after this.)

 

3.  Continued behaviour in line with what originally attracted the spren.

a.  Spren gains more control over its form, and starts to become more cognizant. (Syl making herself known to Kaladin.) Surgebinder slowly gains some increased skill and manipulating their Surges and utilizing Stormlight. (Kaladin begins to instinctively discover new abilities.)

 

4.  Internalization/Vocalization of the Ideals

a.  Each one grants some sort of boost to the Surgebinder’s powers; greater Stormlight retention, more control over surges, perhaps even giving them access to Shardplate/blade. (Kaladin post Battle of the Tower)

 

5.  Full Knight Radiant, fully bonded to their spren, having spoken all the Ideals for their order.

 

Going by this, Elhokar (and maybe Dalinar) would be at one, Shallan at two, Ym at three, Jasnah would be four (maybe three, we don't know for sure if she's spoken any Ideals),  Lift at four, and Kaladin would also be at four.

 

Anything I missed? Anything I have completely wrong? Any crazy theories people want to make?

 

 

EDIT: Ouch, just fixed the typo in the title now.   That's embarrassing.

 

EDIT #2: Made some changes based on the suggestions below.

Edited January 21, 2014 by AonarFaileas

[vikorr]

It's always possible that different spren are attracted to different things.

 

In the case of Syl - it wasn't the giving up of the shardset that attracted her. Somewhere in the book she said to Kaladin that it was the gratitude of the other men towards him that attracted her to him....this is a rather important distinction that many miss - because it wasn't Kaladins reactions (per se), but rather, numerous other peoples emotional response to Kaladins actions that attracted Syl to Kaladin. 

[bartbug]

UPVOTE FOR BOTH! For you, AonarFaileas, that is a good list. And I like classifying things like that.

And for you, vikorr, upvote for totally owning the world! I will make theory. Good theory. Much thanks to you.

[Aonar]

That's an good point on how it might not have been Kaladin's direct actions that attracted Syl, but I do think that it was him giving up the shards that solidified his bond. In Shallan's case she attracted numerous Cryptics, but she didn't bond to any one of them until after she told them her greatest secret, that she had killed her father. Likewise, Kaladin by some means attracted Syl, and potentially other Honourspren as well, but I don't think he actually bonded to her until he gave up his shards.  

 

Edit: @bartbug: You sound exited.   It must be a pretty good theory!

Edited January 21, 2014 by AonarFaileas

[el_warko]

I like, but you need a fifth step for completeness.

 

5) Completed Nahal Bond

a. Surgebinder and spren are now as one and consequenlty totally super awesome sauce; capable of heroic (or nefarious) deeds and in the immortal words of Wutang: ain't nothin' to (deleted expletive) with.

[bartbug]

Okay dokay. Here is theory: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/5428-nahel-bonding-theory-of-cognitivity-and-the-recreance/

And it is meh. But lots of quotes, which is always good.

[vikorr]

Ah, found the quotes, thank you google !

 

Chapter 9

“You used to be vibrant,’ Syl said. ‘So many looked up to you, Kaladin. Your squad of soldiers. The enemies you fought. The other slaves. Even some lighteyes. I used to watch you fight. My memories of them are fuzzy. Like looking at you through a rainstorm.’

 

 

And further into the chapter :

I watched you, you know. Back in that army. You’d always find the young, untrained men and protect them, even though it put you into danger. I can remember. Just barely, but I do….You made it so they had a family in the army. I remember their gratitude. It’s what drew me in the first place. You helped them.’

 

 

Kaladin was in the army for at least a year to this point... without a bond - Syl loses her memories...but she remembers multiple times this happening...so it appears that Syl has already bonded to him...it's just not obvious yet.

 

There is also this quote from Chapter 47, when Kaladin is defending Cenn, in Amaram's army :

 

He could not be stopped, not when he felt like this. When he had the energy of defending the fallen, the power of standing to protect one of his men...(all 6 enemies go down)...Kaladin snapped his spear into a resting position...sweat trickled from his brow...there hadn't seemed to be a breeze before...

…Kaladin breathed in and out once, then turned to see Cenn’s wound.

 

 

Kaladin notes there are times when he feels extra energetic and extra powerful. And from the way it's written, he was also holding his breath...even after the fight finished.

 

All three things are associated with holding stormlight : extra power, energy, and not needing to breath. And holding stormlight is associated with the bond.

 

In the same chapter, a 'windspren' temporarily binds a moneypouch to Kaladin, and then is seen to zip away.

 

The last part of this chapter - is when Kaladin kills the shardbearer.

 

So while not definitive - Syl was almost definitely bonded to Kaladin already - prior to him killing the Shardbearer.

 

...and Kaladin is also 'not surprised' that he managed to do so.

Edited January 21, 2014 by vikorr

[Natans]

Liked and upvoted =)

 

Just a little thing all this process is void if the person in question don't have a "broken soul" that could be filled with something.

 

In Allomancy you need snap to begin use you genetic allomantic powers in the Surgebinding you must "snap" as a pre-requisite to the process begin. 

 

Also i have a personal categorization, not very precise yet =) 

 

 

Surgebinder - Your definition until 1 Ideal - Minor powers, small control of stormlight, can use surges

 

Proto-Radiant 1 - Vocalization of the 2 - Boost in powers - Temporary Eyecolor change(lighteyes) - Can use the second surge (Lift example)

 

Proto-Radiant 2 - Vocalization of the 3 - Unknown

 

Proto-Radiant 3 - Vocalization of the 4 - Unknown

 

Knight Radiant - In this point the person become a  full "Knight Radiant", the end of process alluded by Teft, Sly and Jasnah only occur with a very few persons that walk in the Radiant Path - Pontetially gain of Shardblade and plate- Can hold stormlight perfectly - Eye color almost white, Blond hair.....

Edited January 21, 2014 by Natans

[Aonar]

@vikorr: Thanks for the quotes, I was going to look them up myself if you didn't.

 

Its clear that Kaladin had attracted an Honourspren at that point, but like I said, I don't think he had necessarily bonded to Syl yet. Shallan, in chapter 45 went to Shadesmar before she had bonded to any one Cryptic, and Kaladin was likely also instinctively holding Stormlight before he had bonded to Syl. While its very possible that the bond works differently for different orders, from what we've seen it seems as if its possible to do some very limited surgebinding before bonding to a specific spren. However, there isn't really anything to say whether or not Kaladin rejecting the shards was actually what initiated their bond, so he may have bonded to her earlier. 

 

As for Syl remembering what attracted her to Kaladin, I'm assuming that this would have happened before she was fully part of the Physical Realm, in which case she would have been perfectly able to form memories, and is now regaining those memories as she spends more time with Kaladin.

 

@All: I've edited the OP with peoples suggestions. 

[Macen]

@vikorr: Thanks for the quotes, I was going to look them up myself if you didn't.

 

Its clear that Kaladin had attracted an Honourspren at that point, but like I said, I don't think he had necessarily bonded to Syl yet. Shallan, in chapter 45 went to Shadesmar before she had bonded to any one Cryptic, and Kaladin was likely also instinctively holding Stormlight before he had bonded to Syl. While its very possible that the bond works differently for different orders, from what we've seen it seems as if its possible to do some very limited surgebinding before bonding to a specific spren. However, there isn't really anything to say whether or not Kaladin rejecting the shards was actually what initiated their bond, so he may have bonded to her earlier. 

 

As for Syl remembering what attracted her to Kaladin, I'm assuming that this would have happened before she was fully part of the Physical Realm, in which case she would have been perfectly able to form memories, and is now regaining those memories as she spends more time with Kaladin.

 

@All: I've edited the OP with peoples suggestions. 

 

I hate to argue, but what makes you think both Kaladin and Shallan weren't already bonded to their Cryptics spren? Shallan started seeing Cryptics in her pictures pretty much the moment she got to Kharbranth. I would think purley by the fact that she is able to see them on some level indicates a minor bond. The same thing happened with Jasnah, she wasn't able to travel to Shadesmar until after she has started seeing the shadows that stretched towards her.

I believe the bond starts long long before they first talk with their spren. No other explination makes sense.

They start seeing their spren->Powers begin to manifest->Their spren makes contact.

With the exception of Szeth we have seen no one with powers who didn't have a spren already following them around (bonded with them).

 

Edited January 21, 2014 by Macen

[Aonar]

The only real basis for that is a few quotes from the Shallan Chapters where she goes to Shadesmar. Primarily, from page 799

 

 

The room was empty, yet depicted right in front of her was an image of it crowded full of sleek figures.

...

"What am I?" She whispered. "I'm terrified."

This is true.

The bedroom transformed around her. 

and page 1212

 

 

You need to tell me something true, it replied. The more true, the stronger our bond.

In the first quote it is clear that Shallan has attracted multiple Cryptics, and the next quote implies that she is only now bonding to one particular spren. I don't think seeing the Cryptics she had attracted to herself necessarily meant Shallan had any sort of actual bond at that point, since every bond that we've seen has been between one person and one spren. 

 

I have basically nothing on Kaladin, I'm just extrapolating and assuming that the bond follows the same basic pattern for each order.

 

 

Edit: I might have to scrap some of this, seeing how Syl came to the Physical Realm before choosing someone to bond to.

Edited January 21, 2014 by AonarFaileas

[gpmushu]

I'm of the mind that Sly works a bit differently than the other bonding spren we've seen.  Both Jesnah's and Shallan's sprens appear to be a bit different in the Physical Realm than they are in the Cognitive realm.  We know from Chapter 1 of WoR that Cryptics look different in the Cognitive Realm than the puppy spren that Shallan has now bound.

 

I think that AonarFaileas is correct and that Shallan did not bind to her Spren until she told the second truth about being a murderer and that it was trying to cross over into the Physical Realm and was finally able to when she drew it.  I think Jesnah's first encounter with her spren in the palace was with the Cognitive version and that it crossed over after binding to her.   I think Lift's spren was chosen to bind with her and sent to the Physical before binding, but we have no proof of that. 

 

Sly is the one that I think is different from the others.  I don't think she came from the Cognitive Realm.  I think she has been trapped in the Physical Realm since the Recreance (likely because of a broken bond) with no mind until she found Kaladin to bind with.

 

Spren have to have a bond with someone to have a personality and intelligence in the Physical Realm and Shallan's, Jesnah's, and Lift's spren all seem to have taken a calculated risk to come into the Physical Realm knowing that.  Sly does not seem to have done that, which is why I think she has been trapped in the Physical for much much longer. 

[Macen]

I'm going to counter with this:
 

“What is the first thing you do remember?” Shallan asked. “Where were you first?”

“First,” Pattern said. “With you.”

“On the ship?” Shallan said, writing.

“No. Green. Food. Food not eaten.”

“Plants?” Shallan asked.

“Yes. Many plants.” He vibrated, and she thought she could hear in that vibration the blowing of wind through branches. Shallan breathed in. She could almost see it. The deck in front of her changing to a dirt path, her box becoming a stone bench. Faintly. Not really there, but almost. Her father’s gardens. Pattern on the ground, drawn in the dust…

 

Pattern has obviously been with her for a very long time. I'm assuming back to before she killed her father.

*edit* Fixed some formatting issues with the quote.

*edit* Perhaps the other Cryptics are there to observe the being that Pattern has found worthy of a bond. They want to approve before they will allow Pattern to communicate with Shallan. Just an idea.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Macen

[gpmushu]

Okay, yeah.  It looks like the new chapters posted today completely invalidate what I was saying.  Syl DID come from the Cognitive Realm before binding with Kaladin and it looks like Shallan's spren has been with her longer than we thought as Macen said. 

 

Another point of note is that Shallan doesn't seem to think that the voice that asked her for truths came from Pattern.  She could be wrong, but it's still interesting new information. 

[Aonar]

Yeah, I was feeling a lot more confident about my theory before I read the WoR excerpts.   
 
Now lots of the actions that the Cryptics took seem strange though. If Pattern had been observing her and planning on bonding with her for that long, then what was the point of that whole fiasco in Way of Kings? Why so many Cryptics? Why choose that moment to try to accelerate the bonding process?
 
Notice this though:

 The Cryptics sent you to me, of that I have no doubt, because they knew you would need training.

 
This suggests that the Cryptics have been observing and guiding Shallan ever since they realized that she had the potential to be a Lightweaver. In which case Pattern may have been part of said group that was observing Shallan, and this just happened to be one of his first memories to resurface. (I'm stretching a bit here)
 
On another note, going by some of the comments that Syl made, it seems as if in most cases spren cross into the Physical Realm after finding a person to bond to, but has to be in the Physical to actually bond. This sort of supports my first few steps, but the text is a little ambiguous. 
 
I'm not sure if the new info hurt or helped my idea honestly.
 
@gpmushu: I'm annoyed that I managed to miss that on my first read-through, as that definitely helps my theory, since it suggests that her first soulcasting occurred before she bonded to Pattern. Edited January 21, 2014 by AonarFaileas

[Shardbearer]

I'd still say your theory has merit:

 

0. Person has a "broken soul" that can be filled with surgebindings.

 

1. Spren are attracted to the person, either by their behavior or because the Ring tells them to. This can happen in the Physical or Cognitive Realm. They start forming a bond at this point but it isn't anything too solid yet. It's better for the spren to come into the Physical with this light bond already in place.

 

2. Bond solidifies as the surgebinder continues to act in line with the ideals. They each get stronger due to the symbiotic nature of the bond. Spren recover more of their trueself and surgebinder gets better at using power.

 

3. First ideal

 

4. Second ideal

 

etc.

[Macen]

AonarFailas, I don't mean to come off as trying to destroy your theory, I actually like it. I just find a few parts hard to agree with. I don't think I can get behind the part about breaking them, or losing part of their soul. What trauma have these characters been through?

Jasnah(She had a spren before her father died). 
Lift (She is awful young to have had that much trauma, but maybe)
Elhokar (I could accept his fathers death, but I don't think that's 'Soul-Shattering' - just a little traumatic)

[Terra of Roshar]

The "soul-shattering" thing comes from the back cover, which is posted on Brandon's website.

It is the nature of the magic. A broken soul has cracks into which something else can be fit.  Surgebindings, the powers of creation themselves.  They can brace a broken soul; but they can also widen its fissures.

 

We don't know what traumas the characters you listed had specifically, but the general idea comes from this quote and is supported by the similarity to Snapping from Mistborn. And a lot of people think Jasnah had some horrible experience that shaped her views on marriage and influenced her decision to kill those thieves in WOK. This is Shallan's narration after Jasnah explains her actions:

 

There was something in her voice, an edge Shallan had never heard before. 

 

What was done to you? Shallan wondered with horror. And who did it?

[18th Shard]

I like the theory.

Sly is the one that I think is different from the others.  I don't think she came from the Cognitive Realm.  I think she has been trapped in the Physical Realm since the Recreance (likely because of a broken bond) with no mind until she found Kaladin to bind with.

 

Spren have to have a bond with someone to have a personality and intelligence in the Physical Realm and Shallan's, Jesnah's, and Lift's spren all seem to have taken a calculated risk to come into the Physical Realm knowing that.  Sly does not seem to have done that, which is why I think she has been trapped in the Physical for much much longer.

Actually, recent infromation says that Syl defied the leadership in even coming to the physical realm to bond Kaladin. She has been here (in the Physical World) only a little while. She defied the Stormfather

[Macen]

I suppose that makes sense. But I can't coorilate it to snapping. Snapping was a postcondition, not a precondition. They already had the power, the snapping just enabled the use of it.

[Aonar]

@Terra: Thanks for saving me from having to find all that.

 

@Macen: Don't worry about it, it didn't come off that way to me. Anyway, discussion (even discussion that makes you rethink some bits of your theory) is always fun.

[aheerema]

I suppose that makes sense. But I can't coorilate it to snapping. Snapping was a postcondition, not a precondition. They already had the power, the snapping just enabled the use of it.

Based on what we've seen in Words of Radiance, I'm beginning to think that Surgebinding is similar to what you've said here... a latent talent with minimal manifestation until full access is granted via the Nahel Bond, which requires a broken soul.

Edited March 17, 2014 by aheerema