Types of Shardblades

[Swimmingly]

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=977

We have seen three different types of Shardblades. I know that this has been discussed to death, but I'm going to say some things and you can't stop me!

Data:

Three types

Hypothesis:

There are the regular Shardblades like Dalinar's, long and made to kill BIG THINGS; there are the shorter shardblades like Szeths, made to kill human sized things; there are the Honorblades, presumably also made to kill big things.

Data: Most shardblades can be used for any purpose with impunity, some cannot.

Hypothesis:

We have seen Dalinar kill Parshmen by the dozen with his blade, he is able to kill chasmfiends, he is able to kill people, he is able to cut through rock. Szeth is also able to cut rock, he can kill people, and presumably, he can kill Parshmen though it's not confirmed. That leaves the Honorblades: they can kill things, they can stab into the rock - but can they kill people? I presume that they cannot, or that using them in such a way would destroy them. Perhaps they work like Hemalurgic spikes, trapping Odius investiture, or Nightblood, needing Odius investiture to cut.

[Arook]

All odium would need to do to defeat a person using an honor blade would be make a human attack then so I think that seems unlikely.

 

We also don't know if Szeth's blade doesn't fall into one of the other 2 categorizes, chances are it does.

[Shardlet]

All odium would need to do to defeat a person using an honor blade would be make a human attack then so I think that seems unlikely.

 

We also don't know if Szeth's blade doesn't fall into one of the other 2 categorizes, chances are it does.

 

What would you then propose as the third category Arook?

[Crisapx]

Well, I know this is simple, but sometime simple works best.

 

Based purely on name, if there are honorblades it stands to reason that there is a chance that there are odiumblades.

And maybe shardblades are in between the 2, maybe 50/50 of each, or maybe each blade has a different setting.

[Aether]

Well, I know this is simple, but sometime simple works best.

 

Based purely on name, if there are honorblades it stands to reason that there is a chance that there are odiumblades.

And maybe shardblades are in between the 2, maybe 50/50 of each, or maybe each blade has a different setting.

If there are Odiumblades, then where do you propose we've seen them? The WoB in question mentions that we've seen all three types of Shardblades in the Way of Kings (Honourblades being one, the two others unknown at this point).

.

I believe the three types to be either of the following two categorizations, either:

1. Honourblades
2. "Normal" Shardblades, as carried by Adolin, Dalinar etc., made to combat humongous enemies, such as Thunderclasts and the like.
3. Assuming Szeth's blade is not an Honourblade, a Shardblade made to fight human-sized enemies, which accounts for its uncommon length.

Or:

1. Honourblades (including Szeth's blade, which I myself and others believe to be Jezrien's Honourblade)
2. Ancient Shardblades as wielded by the Knights Radiant
3. The same Shardblades as wielded by the Knights Radiant, but twisted and corrupted either directly by Odium, or indirectly by their use against the people they were made to protect, not slaughter haphazardly.

It might also be that there is some unknown distinction that makes the common "Shardblades" we usually lump into a single category really two different types of Blades. I find myself leaning towards the second categorization, though, mainly because Szeth's Windrunner abilities would be explained so simply by him having Jezrien's own Honourblade.

EDIT: The current WoBs on this subject do not limit the number of different types of Shardblade, as per Shardlet's post further down. I mistakenly said claimed "all" three types of Shardblades have been seen, which could be true, but is currently unconfirmed.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Aether

[Shardlet]

Here is the quote of interest cited in the OP: 

 

MYCOLTBUG

Is there any ramifications to the holder of a shard blade for using a blade in a manner that it wasn't intended?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Depends on the type of Shardblade. (You have seen three different kinds in TWoK.) For most, no. For some, most certainly.

 

So we have seen three different kinds of blades in WoK.  The blades we saw were the Honorblades, Szeth's blade, Elhokar's blade, Eshonai's blade, Dalinar's blade, Adolin's blade, Gavilar's blade, the blade now in Amaram's possession, the three blades in Jah Keved during the assassination, and the blade used by Adolin's dueling opponent (if that is not Elhokar's blade). 

We have seen that Honorblades behave differently (disappear when Herald dies) than typical shardblades (commonly classified here as radiantblades which appear when holder dies).  Szeth's blade turns his eyes light only when summoned.  In addition to this, Szeth describes his blade as being smaller than most shardblades.  Brandon affirms this in the following quote (#156):

ASTALDUATH

After reading The Way of Kings, I couldn't help but to wonder this: hypothetically if there were two equally skilled combatants in every way, one armed with a Shardblade and the other with a Lightsaber, and take magic and the Force out of the equation (except for the weapons themselves), who would win? And yes, the Shardblade would have already been summoned and the two are just squaring off in a dual. Have fun with it.

BRANDON SANDERSON

A lightsaber is actually a little more easy to wield than a Shardblade, I would guess. Shardblades were designed to fight something larger than another person; you don't actually need all of that size when fighting someone. So that gives a slight edge to you average Jedi. If it's someone like Szeth, who has a more modestly sized Blade, then I don't honestly know.

 

Dalinar's, Adolin's, Elhokar's, Eshonai's, and I believe Gavilar's are the only other blades that are described in any meaningful way.  It is my contention that Szeth's blade is the most likely to be the third kind of blade since it is noted to be distinct from most other blades (namely, its smaller size).  I speak about this in more depth in the shardblade theory in my signature.   

Note:  As a clarification of Aether's fine post, the quote says that we have "seen three different kinds", but does not say that there are only three kinds (which I suspect there are only three main kinds).  Also, the descriptions of Szeth's blade indicate that the blade is smaller, but is not specific as to the blade being shorter (though, I believe this to be the case).

Edited December 31, 2013 by Shardlet

[Moogle]

Something I'm not sure that has been brought up in this thread, yet, is that Amaram's Shardblade has a gemstone on the pommel that flashes when he holds it. I can dig up the quote later, but if we're looking for Blades that act differently, I'd put it up there along with Szeth's Blade.

 

Also: how does Szeth know his Blade changes his eye color, and how does he know his eye color doesn't change just because he's holding Stormlight? It strikes me that he would be unlikely to summon his Blade without also Investing himself.

[Crisapx]

Do Honourblades somehow comes from the Honour Shard? Or it's just coincidence.

Since it seems that BS is hinting that more types of blades will appear, and we also don't know what Cultivation brings to the table(at least I don't, I'm still pretty new to all this roshar stuff) may as well have another type of blade from it.

 

By exclusion the Szeths blade belongs to the 3rd type since its the one that differs from the others.

Or maybe it belongs to the honour type, and it's one of the other that differs when used in a certain situation, making it a 3rd type but kind of disguised as a shardblade, like the Amatam's just like Moogle said i nthe post above.

 

 

I love these theories and hypothesis, but I hate it when there is no material to try and prove them...

[Shardlet]

Something I'm not sure that has been brought up in this thread, yet, is that Amaram's Shardblade has a gemstone on the pommel that flashes when he holds it. I can dig up the quote later, but if we're looking for Blades that act differently, I'd put it up there along with Szeth's Blade.

 

Also: how does Szeth know his Blade changes his eye color, and how does he know his eye color doesn't change just because he's holding Stormlight? It strikes me that he would be unlikely to summon his Blade without also Investing himself.

 

I am cautious about that since it is shown to be something that happened in that instance rather than something that is distinct from other instances.  I think a good question and follow-up question to ask Brandon would be:  Do all shardblades have a gemstone mounted on them?; and, if so, Does the gemstone flash each time a new person takes possession of the shardblade?  I suspect though, that these questions will be moot in a couple of months.

 

2 MONTHS, 4 DAYS!

 

(And one of those months is short)

Edited December 31, 2013 by Shardlet

[Moogle]

I am cautious about that since it is shown to be something that happened in that instance rather than something that is distinct from other instances.  I think a good question and follow-up question to ask Brandon would be:  Do all shardblades have a gemstone mounted on them?; and, if so, Does the gemstone flash each time a new person takes possession of the shardblade?

 

I think you're on the right track with it flashing because Amaram just 'bonded' to it, but I am 99% confident that not every Shardblade we've seen has a gemstone pommel. Whether or not that matters remains to be seen. It's possible someone did figure out a fabrial Shardblade, and that it's what Amaram has. I admit, though, that it's incredibly unlikely, because of how they're basically pure Investiture (or is that Plate?) and would likely require the sacrifice of many thousands of spren.

 

I suppose 'sacrifice' is a bit too much of a loaded word though, at least for most spren. Most spren are not sentient, so it's sort of like pouring water into a cup when a flamespren is put into a ruby to make a heating fabrial.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Moogle

[Shardlet]

...but I am 99% confident that not every Shardblade we've seen has a gemstone pommel. 

 

It is important to note that absence of description does not equal non-presence.  Though, I also feel that not every blade has a gemstone.

[Kier]

In the prolouge the honorblades are described as 7 magnificant swords, inscribed with glyphs and patterns. This deosn't really clarify that they are infact large, however, flwoing with glyphs and patterns? how much room do you have for glyphs and unique patterns on a normal sword? or even larger than normal sword?  and Talns Honorblade is discribed as bright silvery blade, a shardblade, a massive Shardblade, point down sticking a fingers with into the stone. It was long, narrow and straight. So at least his Honorblade is massive. Although we do know that the Honorblades are "unique."

 

Also Talns honorblade does not seem to change the color of his eyes, as he has Dark eyes when he shows up in Kohlinar.

 

One more thing that I just thought of. If Honorblades disapear when the holder dies, how are the Stone Shamans going ot recover Szeths Honorblade when he dies? It will theoratically disapear.

 

For these reason and, the logical reason that the honorblades like shardblades where made to fight against voidbringers I would think that Szeth does not have an honorblade. I feel the Honorblades are bigger than Szeths less than huge sword. 

 

Thats why I don't think Szeth has an honorblade but the "3rd type". 

[Shardlet]

One more thing that I just thought of. If Honorblades disapear when the holder dies, how are the Stone Shamans going ot recover Szeths Honorblade when he dies? It will theoratically disapear.

 

Though I agree with you, others have theorized that Honorblades may behave somewhat differently in the hands of someone not bound by the Oathpact.

[Kier]

Though I agree with you, others have theorized that Honorblades may behave somewhat differently in the hands of someone not bound by the Oathpact.

 

Mmm makes me want to re-read the prelude. I feel like the Oathpact and Honorblades are intertwined in such a way that they literally had to leave the blades to break the Oathpact. I.e. picking them up again will keep it.... ALthough then there is the recent WoB that one other Herald still has his/her, or at least went back for and had for a time his/her Honorblade. So, I guess that disproves that in a way since Only Taln showed up and not some other Herald...... MMMMM...

[Shardlet]

It is hard to say how strongly ties the Honorblades and the Oathpact are at this point.  They could be closely tied.  But, it may also be an honor/symbolic kind of thing.  'Because you have agreed to this pact at great personal sacrifice, I give to you this fancy-pants blade which is really powerful and will aid you in your task.'  That being the case, Jezrien, or a group of the Heralds together, decides that if they are going to abandon the Oathpact, it wouldn't be right to retain the blade they received because of the Oathpact.  

 

So, we have no info to base our speculations on except that Jez said 'Leave the blade if your gonna bail too' and Brandon said that someone other than Taln kept or reclaimed their blade.

 

Note: it should be noted that the other part of keeping the Oathpact was voluntarily returning to damnation if you survive the desolation.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Shardlet

[Moogle]

Though I agree with you, others have theorized that Honorblades may behave somewhat differently in the hands of someone not bound by the Oathpact.

 

I don't think there's any mystery here, and I don't think it's limited to Honorblades. It seems that when you get a Shardblade (or Honorblade), it binds itself directly to your spiritweb. If you 'die' like the Heralds, your soul sticks around to get tortured, and any Blades bound to you will naturally disappear so they can stick with you.