Hemalurgic abuse and stealing a feruchemical charge

[Edgedancer]

This is an idea that came to me rather suddenly and given how little we know of Hemalurgy this will be pure speculation that contains a lot of "is this possible"-questions and no answers. Also I´m open to little tidbits about Hemalurgy that I missed which woud contradict any of this.

 

First of all came the question "what happens to a hemalurgic spike if it stay in your body?" Given that the spike woud add a part of your soul to the one being spiked it seem resonable that you can also "keep" your soul if the spike stays in you and getting spiked didn´t kill you.

 

Next I wonderd if a spike like this coud be shared, for example if one uses two needles connected by a thred all frome the same metal and melted together as one piece.

Woud this not work because the spike rejects the second subject or create some kind of soullink between the two people being spiked. (Which woud then have to be called either hemalurgic twins or Spikebros.)

 

If it works what woud the effects of this link be? Thelephaty, similar to what Harmony does with his spiked followers, or maybe a cognitive or spirital link.

Coud the spike be removed from the second spike victim or woud his soul also bind to the sipke?

 

And lastly this lead me to Feruchemy. If such a link were possible coud an Feruchemist with hemalurgic knowledge spike another person, not even neccesarily a Feruchmist, and use him as a "battery" for his metalminds and coud he tap them after cutting the link?

Coud he only use certain atributes or coud he steal things like identity (literaly) and memory?

Maybe this coud be used for murder by storing breath and making the victim suffocate or to transfer ones mind into another body. (Why must the two examples I can thing of right now be so villan like?)

 

Any thoughts or destructive holes in this speculation?

[Claincy]

The idea of having one spike passing through 2 people is interesting. However I get the feeling that it would be considered to be in one or the other.

 

let's assume I am wrong though and continue speculating

 

This idea, as far as I know, has never really been discussed so all of this will naturally be complete speculation.

 

It is quite possible that such a link would create some form of cognitive bond between the two. I do not think this would readily allow direct telepathy but I think it might grant a vastly heightened degree of empathy such that they feel something of the emotions of the other, in a way as if they were being effected by brass/zinc.

 

I think the second spike victim would be considered the recipient and hence the spike could be removed from them without killing them if it wasn't puncturing anything overly vital (or they had Feruchemical gold).

 

Personally I doubt that a feruchemist could use someone else as a battery like that. If he could steal any in this way I would suspect that it would either be limited to cognitive or spiritual attributes, or work for all. I do not think it would be exclusive to physical. I'm not sure if storing as much of their breath as possible would work or not, but there would certainly be much easier ways to murder a person than spiking them with a special spike like that, then spiking yourself with the other part, then storing their breath. Why not just aim for somewhere vital with the initial spiking and just stab them to death?

[Oudeis]

First of all came the question "what happens to a hemalurgic spike if it stay in your body?" Given that the spike woud add a part of your soul to the one being spiked it seem resonable that you can also "keep" your soul if the spike stays in you and getting spiked didn´t kill you.

I'm not positive I understand your question. Are you saying that if someone is spiked for theft, but the spike wasn't removed, would they be able to act like nothing had happened?

 

If that's what you're asking, I would say not. I think the analogy is something like this:

 

If you strap a man down to a table, put straps within an inch of each other on his arm, and cut through his arm between those straps, his arm would still function, right? I mean the severed arm is being held right up against the place where it had been severed. So no problem, right?

 

I think once a piece of your spiritweb is sliced off from the rest, even if "leaving the spike in" would mean that the chunk of spiritweb is still near your own spiritweb, it's not even slightly the same as having a non-bifurcated spiritweb.

 

Just my two cents, I understand I've got a minority opinion on this one.

[Claincy]

I'm not positive I understand your question. Are you saying that if someone is spiked for theft, but the spike wasn't removed, would they be able to act like nothing had happened?

 

If that's what you're asking, I would say not. I think the analogy is something like this:

 

If you strap a man down to a table, put straps within an inch of each other on his arm, and cut through his arm between those straps, his arm would still function, right? I mean the severed arm is being held right up against the place where it had been severed. So no problem, right?

 

I think once a piece of your spiritweb is sliced off from the rest, even if "leaving the spike in" would mean that the chunk of spiritweb is still near your own spiritweb, it's not even slightly the same as having a non-bifurcated spiritweb.

 

Just my two cents, I understand I've got a minority opinion on this one.

You do have a good point. It likely wouldn't work at that juncture. You could however pull it out then stab it back into yourself at the appropriate place to tack on that bit of soul just as the spike could be used on someone else. (This is all based on having found a way to spike yourself without killing yourself of course.)

[Bean]

Doesn't a spike have to travel through your heart in order to gain the charge? Therefore until the spike has traveled through you it is not hemalurgically charged. Maybe once most of the spike has entered your heart it is considered charged even if it hasn't exited. That would take a lot of dead bodies to find out exactly how far in it has to go.

 

If it did work you would look like a moron with another moron nailed to your chest. hehe that's a good conversation starter.

[Claincy]

It certainly wouldn't be highly practical

 

But we did get confirmation a while back that it is possible to create a heamalurgic spike without killing the victim. Very serious side effects all the same that makes this speculation remotely feasible.

[Oudeis]

Doesn't a spike have to travel through your heart in order to gain the charge?

 

This is an interesting point of speculation. Having just re-read HoA (which has a ton of hemalurgy, and the annotations have even more) I'm fairly confident that every instance of hemalurgic theft that we see is through the heart. I've heard this referred to as "the universal theftpoint" though I don't know if that's simply fanon or if it's been confirmed.

 

Considering that we've seen a number of allomantic and one feruchemical power stolen through the heart, I think it's safe to assume that any Metallic power can be stolen via the heart. Does this mean it's the only "theftpoint" for powers, or even the only theftpoint for anything? Maybe, maybe not. It's possible the "human attributes" have different theftpoints, or that, like bindpoints, there are specific ones all over the body, but the heart is simply useable for any trait/power.

 

Minor spoiler: There's reason to suspect hemalurgy might be addressed again in Shadows of Self so we could potentially answer some of this, or this might make an excellent question to ask Mr. Sanderson.

[18th Shard]

I think if you stab yourself with a piece of metal and leave it in, you're dead. You just got stabbed with a piece of metal. If you take it out and put it back in, maybe you'll survive... maybe. Just because you have a spike in you doesn't mean it's a Hemalurgic spike.

[Edgedancer]

I think if you stab yourself with a piece of metal and leave it in, you're dead. You just got stabbed with a piece of metal. If you take it out and put it back in, maybe you'll survive... maybe. Just because you have a spike in you doesn't mean it's a Hemalurgic spike.

Well, spike is relative so a very small piece of metal shoud also do the trick whitout causing letal wounds. Also while we are on the topic of small spikes, if we take Feruchemy as an example then there shoud be a limit to how much energy a spike can steal, so a extremly small spike may not have enough volume to do any significant damage.

[Shardlet]

I think if you stab yourself with a piece of metal and leave it in, you're dead. You just got stabbed with a piece of metal. If you take it out and put it back in, maybe you'll survive... maybe. Just because you have a spike in you doesn't mean it's a Hemalurgic spike.

 

Intent is a key aspect of hemalurgy.  If you were to stab a mistborn through the heart with a piece of steel, it would only create a hemalurgic spike if you intended to create one.  The ability that is stolen is determined by the metal the spike is made of coupled with which ability you intend to steal.

[Oudeis]

 there shoud be a limit to how much energy a spike can steal, so a extremly small spike may not have enough volume to do any significant damage.

 

Marsh actually says, in the chapter where he attacks Penrod, that the size does matter, but that a very small spike can still hold enough to transfer an entire ability. Think Vin's earring. He mentions that a five-inch spike of bronze is far more than required to transfer a Smoker's power, that in fact it was made bigger than necessary for sheer structural integrity while being shoved through a breastbone.