Allomancy's relation to the other Metallic Arts

[skaa]

Hey guys. I've been formulating a theory about Allomancy, but I encountered a problem that I hope you could help me with.

 

We know that when a double metal Twinborn burns his own metalmind, its stored trait is Compounded. But what happens when he tries to burn someone else's metalmind (assuming it's the same kind of metal that he can Allomantically burn)? Did Brandon ever reveal that information?

 

I know that Vin consumed a piece of one of Sazed's metalminds back in the original trilogy, and that she said she couldn't access the metal's Feruchemical contents. But I don't think it was ever mentioned if she was at least able to access its Allomantic power.

 

To put it another way: If a Lurcher Misting attempts to burn a piece of someone's Ironmind, his weight certainly won't increase (because he's just a Misting), but will metal objects fly towards him? Will he be able to burn the iron at all?

Edited May 16, 2013 by skaa

[Kadrok]

I've heard mixed answers to this, some saying the Feruchemical charge overwrites the Allomantic ability and others saying it doesn't. I too would like this answer, preferably with a Brandon quote or other reputable source. Sadly, I don't think the MAG covers this.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

http://twg.17thshard.com/index.php?topic=6896.0

If it's a metal someone else charged, it would just work like regular allomancy, and the feruchemical charge would just cease to exist.

Obscure info from TWG.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity

[skaa]

If it's a metal someone else charged, it would just work like regular allomancy, and the feruchemical charge would just cease to exist.

 

Thanks, Phantom! That's exactly what I was hoping for. Knowing that Allomancers can burn charged metals, even those charged by someone else, makes me a bit more confident about my theory, which I will be describing later.

 

I have been thinking about Allomancy, and how Twinborns are able to drastically augment Feruchemy by burning pieces of their metalminds. Twinborns are special because they can Allomantically access Feruchemical charge. Other Allomancers (including Mistborn) aren't able to do this because it requires Feruchemy to be part of a metalborn's sDNA.

 

The sDNA requirement is also true for Allomancy (i.e. you can't burn metals unless the ability is written in your Spiritweb), but there is one other Metallic Art we haven't mentioned yet, and it is an ability that can be used by everyone on Scadrial (potentially everyone in Cosmere). I'm talking of course about Hemalurgy.

 

My theory (don't worry, I'm getting there) was borne out of the three facts mentioned above:

• Allomancers can burn charged metal
• Twinborn can use this to Allomantically access Feruchemical charge
• Everyone on Scadrial can use Hemalurgy

Here's my theory (at last!): Hemalurgic charge can also be accessed via Allomancy. And not just by special Allomancers invented by Harmony. A piece of a Hemalurgic spike can be burned by any Allomancer (well, assuming the spike is made of a metal he can burn, of course).

 

Advantages of Allomantically-accessing Hemalurgic charge:

• No icky piercings that might kill you if someone pulls the spike off.
• Compounding of Hemalurgic charge. Squeeze everything from that old spike!
• Probably no damage to your Spiritweb. Take that, Ruin!

 

Disadvantages of Allomantically-accessing Hemalurgic charge:

• The Investiture stops as soon as you stop burning (might be an advantage in certain situations).
• When you run out of Hemalurgic spike to burn, you're gonna have to stab somebody (might be a good thing for certain people).
• If you can't burn the metal that the spike is made of, you're probably out of luck (unless you're desperate enough to pierce yourself).
• That spike has dried-up blood on it...

 

"But wait, skaa!" you might object. "I thought the special thing about Hemalurgy is that the power obtained from a spike depends on which bind point was pierced. How do you determine what power you get via Allomancy? And why aren't you working in the fields?"

 

To the first question, I shall answer with this list of examples (you should be able to guess the rest after you see the pattern):

• While an Iron/Pewter Twinborn is burning Hemalurgic Iron, he can enjoy being a really big-muscled Lurcher for a while, or he could store the compounded charge as Physical Strength in his Pewtermind.

   

• While a Coinshot (Misting or Twinborn) burns Hemalurgic Steel, he can also start burning either Iron, Pewter, or Tin as well, depending which Physical Allomancy was stolen.

   

• While a Tin Compounder burns Hemalurgic Tin, he can store "human senses" as Senses in his Tinmind. Triple Tin Combo! Kinda pointless, actually, seeing that he's probably better off just Compounding his own metalmind.

   

• While a Thug Misting burns Hemalurgic Pewter, he gains temporary Feruchemical Physical abilities depending on what kind of Ferring or Twinborn was originally stabbed using the spike (hopefully Feruchemical Pewter).

 

Okay, I think that's enough examples for now.

 

So, did Brandon ever talk about this possibility before?

[Kurkistan]

Sorry, you are a bit off. We were discussing this very issue the other day, actually.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Trying to burn your spikes is apparently a bad idea.

 

 

http://www.17thshard.com/news/interviews/transcriptofourfirstinterview

17th Shard: So the linchpin spike is not always the same type of spike.

Brandon: It doesn't have to be. The linchpin spike is just, when you're putting that many spikes together into somebody it needs a spike to coordinate them all. That is part of what's holding their body together from all of this damage, and it doesn't have to be the healing spike. The nature of Feruchemy is separate from that, if that makes any sense. For instance, you could put a few spikes into an Inquisitor without a linchpin spike, and they wouldn't die.

17th Shard: Can you burn the spikes? Like, Allomantically? For example, could they burn the steel in their head spikes?

Brandon: (sighs) I considered that and I eventually decided that they could, but it would be an excruciating process that would probably knock them unconscious simply by doing it.

17th Shard: Would they be able to tap?

Brandon: Would they tap them? They can use them as metalminds, yes.

 

 

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/2383-qa-with-brandon-sanderson/page__st__120

P.S. There's also been a long standing debate on whether an Allomacer could burn the One Ring, stance on that?

Burn the One Ring, eh? I think it's such a powerfully invested object that it would be very, very dangerous to try.

 

If steel inquistors get knocked out trying to burn their own spikes (and dudes have to have insane pain tolerances), I figure that it's impossible, practically speaking.  You'd go unconscious before you could accomplish anything.  And since burning powerfully invested stuff is dangerous, that probably is also a factor.  The One Ring is pretty thematically simliar, really.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity

[skaa]

Sorry, you are a bit off. We were discussing this very issue the other day, actually.

Ooh, I haven't been reading that thread since I last posted there. Interesting. What I got from the quotes is that the only safe way to burn a Hemalurgic spike is if the spike first stole your own power, which is both paradoxical (since you'd be dead before you could even use the spike) and pointless (because even if you could somehow survive that, you'd just be burning your own power back into yourself, anyway).

At first I thought that Brandon's ambiguous statement about the "very strange consequences" of burning someone else's spike could save my theory somehow since, after all, "sDNA splicing" is exactly what Hemalurgy is for, but the quote Phantom brought up suggests that it would still be unwise to do such a thing. Perhaps it's because sDNA splicing is an exact science that requires a high degree of precision (hence the specific Hemalurgic bindpoints), something that can't be achieved via Allomancy.

This makes me wonder what chromium's Hemalurgic power is. Perhaps a Chromium Compounder could obtain enough luck to burn Hemalurgic Chromium and somehow get all the sDNA splicing done correctly. But maybe that's a bit far-fetched.

Oh well. I was hoping that Allomancy would prove to be as complementary to Hemalurgy as it is to Feruchemy. Brandon said in the appendix of AoL that Hemalurgy is not inherently evil. That's why I suspected that, somehow, there is a way to use it without harming people. I really wish that the power of Hemalurgy can somehow be harnessed without using Ruin's methodology. Hopefully Sazed/Harmony will find a way for people to do this later on.

Edited May 17, 2013 by skaa

[Pechvarry]

Trying to burn your spikes is apparently a bad idea.

 

 

 

 

 

If steel inquistors get knocked out trying to burn their own spikes (and dudes have to have insane pain tolerances), I figure that it's impossible, practically speaking.  You'd go unconscious before you could accomplish anything.  And since burning powerfully invested stuff is dangerous, that probably is also a factor.  The One Ring is pretty thematically simliar, really.

This quote is referring to burning your own spike.  I can't imagine a world where that's a good idea.

 

However, this doesn't address what happens when you burn a spike that wasn't previously stabbed into you.  E.g. you kill someone with a spike, and immediately shave some off and burn it.

[Kadrok]

This quote is referring to burning your own spike.  I can't imagine a world where that's a good idea.

 

However, this doesn't address what happens when you burn a spike that wasn't previously stabbed into you.  E.g. you kill someone with a spike, and immediately shave some off and burn it.

 

Indeed. You'd have to imagine burning something already networked into your spirit web is all kinds of dumb, but we still haven't arrived at the exact effects of burning a non-networked spike. I still stand by my theory that it works a lot like a Lerasium-alloy, but with bonus mental illnesses.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

This quote is referring to burning your own spike.  I can't imagine a world where that's a good idea.

 

However, this doesn't address what happens when you burn a spike that wasn't previously stabbed into you.  E.g. you kill someone with a spike, and immediately shave some off and burn it.

Honestly, this question would be a lot easier to answer if we knew what happened to the Lord Ruler's atium bracers.